OneLight Posted March 15, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.22 Reputation: 9,763 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted March 15, 2015 Then we are back to square 1. If I am not mistaken classical Christian thought on this matter is that physical death is the result of Adam's sin, it is part of the curse of sin. That would be spiritual death, separation from God. There is nothing in scripture that supports the idea that Adams physical body would of lasted forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One of millions Posted March 15, 2015 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 1 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 12 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 4 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/15/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted March 15, 2015 All the blessings of God are not for the man and woman who turn to sin. Today, we have churches presenting eternal life to those who do not truly repent of sin, but actually embrace sin. Now of course, they cannot give eternal life to men, but they act as if they can. Unlike sinful, religious men, God is not double-minded. He removes the blessing of eternal life from those who have died spiritually by turning to sin. Adam had two gifts of life presented to him: physical life that would endure forever and spiritual or eternal life with God. I think the Tree of Life represented and was for that eternal life from God, which is beyond just living forever physically. Our bodies must die because of their association with and participation in sin and a sinful nature, but our spirits and souls can live forever with God as we are reconciled to him by His Son, Jesus because of the cross. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted March 15, 2015 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 599 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,260 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,988 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted March 15, 2015 If Adam was created to never die, what was the purpose of the Tree of Life, which according to Gen 3:22 would have allowed him to live forever?who said that he was not eating of it before the tree of knowledge... that one tree was the only one forbidden.I am very open to that idea, but I am not sure it squares with the idea physical death is part of the curse of sin! Nope, sorry, but he did not eat of the Tree of Life before he ate of the Tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Otherwise, he would of lived forever. Genesis 3:22 Then the Lord God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever”Or maybe it takes more than one time to stay alive for a very long time and when they ate of the tree of knowledge they would be kicked out of the garden and it would asure that they would some day die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted March 15, 2015 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 599 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,260 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,988 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted March 15, 2015 If Adam was created to never die, what was the purpose of the Tree of Life, which according to Gen 3:22 would have allowed him to live forever? who said that he was not eating of it before the tree of knowledge... that one tree was the only one forbidden. I am very open to that idea, but I am not sure it squares with the idea physical death is part of the curse of sin! the curse is to remove you from access to the tree of life. just throwing out possibilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 I think you are mistaken, Onelight. Physical death was just as much a part of the fall as spiritual death. In fact, in Genesis, ALL of the curses mentioned are physical in nature. The ground is producing thorns and thistles, pain in childbirth, and physical death. The context lends itself to the notion that physical death is part of curse. Note what God said to Adam in Gen 3:19. All of the curses were physical. The blessings of redemption are not merely spiritual but physical as well. The fact that we have the hope of physically living forever in physical bodies that will never die indicates that Jesus' death on cross is the complete and ultimate reversal of the curse of the fall. Jesus didn't die Spiritually to redeem us; Jesus died physically. It took physical death to give us full and final salvation from physical death which we will one day receive as part of our inheritance. The scope of salvation is in exact proportion to the scope of the effects of sin, both physically and spiritually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted March 15, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.22 Reputation: 9,763 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted March 15, 2015 All the blessings of God are not for the man and woman who turn to sin. Today, we have churches presenting eternal life to those who do not truly repent of sin, but actually embrace sin. Now of course, they cannot give eternal life to men, but they act as if they can. Unlike sinful, religious men, God is not double-minded. He removes the blessing of eternal life from those who have died spiritually by turning to sin. Adam had two gifts of life presented to him: physical life that would endure forever and spiritual or eternal life with God. I think the Tree of Life represented and was for that eternal life from God, which is beyond just living forever physically. Our bodies must die because of their association with and participation in sin and a sinful nature, but our spirits and souls can live forever with God as we are reconciled to him by His Son, Jesus because of the cross. I don't believe it was meant to be either with God or away from God, just that it meant to live forever, spiritually. There is nothing in scripture that states otherwise. We obtain theories as we read into scripture what scripture does not provide. As for our bodies, as Shiloh stated, we will be given new bodies for the new bodies will not be corrupted and we will become immortal. 1 Corinthians 15:50-58 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption. Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.” “O Death, where is your sting? O Hades, where is your victory?” The sting of death is sin, and the strength of sin is the law. But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. Therefore, my beloved brethren, be steadfast, immovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that your labor is not in vain in the Lord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted March 15, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.22 Reputation: 9,763 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted March 15, 2015 If Adam was created to never die, what was the purpose of the Tree of Life, which according to Gen 3:22 would have allowed him to live forever? who said that he was not eating of it before the tree of knowledge... that one tree was the only one forbidden. I am very open to that idea, but I am not sure it squares with the idea physical death is part of the curse of sin! Nope, sorry, but he did not eat of the Tree of Life before he ate of the Tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Otherwise, he would of lived forever. Genesis 3:22 Then the Lord God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever” Or maybe it takes more than one time to stay alive for a very long time and when they ate of the tree of knowledge they would be kicked out of the garden and it would asure that they would some day die. Scripture does not support that theory. How did you garner that from the verse I provided? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One of millions Posted March 15, 2015 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 1 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 12 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 4 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/15/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted March 15, 2015 (edited) I think the Tree of Life represented and was for that eternal life from God, which is beyond just living forever physically.Our bodies must die because of their association with and participation in sin and a sinful nature, but our spirits and souls can live forever with God as we are reconciled to him by His Son, Jesus because of the cross. I don't believe it was meant to be either with God or away from God, just that it meant to live forever, spiritually. There is nothing in scripture that states otherwise. We obtain theories as we read into scripture what scripture does not provide. You are mistaken about the nature of sin to say this, OneLight. Sin kills the soul. God tells us plainly, "the soul that sins will die." It is not just the body that dies, but the soul. But, as the body can and will still die, our souls can have "eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." This gift is given back to men who repent of sin and believe in Christ's work of redemption for them. When one is "born again," as Jesus talked about in John 3, they enter into the kingdom of God, the eternal kingdom and receive this eternal life from God. it is a wonderful gift that was removed from Adam. There spirits and souls are made alive to God.Souls of sinful, unrepentant men, however, do continue on forever, but not with "life," but eternal death and punishment. They perish, as Jesus says. Edited March 15, 2015 by OneLight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted March 15, 2015 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 599 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,260 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,988 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted March 15, 2015 If Adam was created to never die, what was the purpose of the Tree of Life, which according to Gen 3:22 would have allowed him to live forever? who said that he was not eating of it before the tree of knowledge... that one tree was the only one forbidden. I am very open to that idea, but I am not sure it squares with the idea physical death is part of the curse of sin! Nope, sorry, but he did not eat of the Tree of Life before he ate of the Tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Otherwise, he would of lived forever. Genesis 3:22 Then the Lord God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever” Or maybe it takes more than one time to stay alive for a very long time and when they ate of the tree of knowledge they would be kicked out of the garden and it would asure that they would some day die. Scripture does not support that theory. How did you garner that from the verse I provided? If they are left in the garden they could still eat freely of that tree. Whatever the case, it's really just an academic discussion for one can think through several ways that it might be accomplished if one wants to just go word for word and accept any of the scenarios that could be drawn up. Eat of the tree of knowledge and from that day forward your death is assured. Are we not going to have access to the tree of life in the next world???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted March 15, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.22 Reputation: 9,763 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted March 15, 2015 I think the Tree of Life represented and was for that eternal life from God, which is beyond just living forever physically. Our bodies must die because of their association with and participation in sin and a sinful nature, but our spirits and souls can live forever with God as we are reconciled to him by His Son, Jesus because of the cross. I don't believe it was meant to be either with God or away from God, just that it meant to live forever, spiritually. There is nothing in scripture that states otherwise. We obtain theories as we read into scripture what scripture does not provide. You are mistaken about the nature of sin to say this, OneLight. Sin kills the soul. God tells us plainly, "the soul that sins will die." It is not just the body that dies, but the soul. But, as the body can and will still die, our souls can have "eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." This gift is given back to men who repent of sin and believe in Christ's work of redemption for them. When one is "born again," as Jesus talked about in John 3, they enter into the kingdom of God, the eternal kingdom and receive this eternal life from God. it is a wonderful gift that was removed from Adam. There spirits and souls are made alive to God. Souls of sinful, unrepentant men, however, do continue on forever, but not with "life," but eternal death and punishment. They perish, as Jesus says. Tell me then, how does Satan and the 1/3 that follow him still live? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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