Alejandro84 Posted July 10, 2015 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 7 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 237 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 145 Days Won: 2 Joined: 09/05/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/24/1984 Share Posted July 10, 2015 (edited) What must be pointed out is that James is writing to believers who already are believers, His epistle is for their edification when he says the things he says in his epistle. When Jesus preached the gospel he didn't sat have faith and good works in order to be saved, no, for he said turn and live. The purpose of James writing chapter 2 is to show believers who the tares are among them, for they to discern between those who know God and those who not, because not all men among the professing Jesus followers have faith. Edited July 10, 2015 by Alejandro84 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alejandro84 Posted July 10, 2015 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 7 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 237 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 145 Days Won: 2 Joined: 09/05/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/24/1984 Share Posted July 10, 2015 (edited) It shows that it's a change of heart that leads one to be forgiving and compassionate, not the doing of works themselves. And that's what James is contrasting in chapter 2, showing that if someone has truly been forgiven and knows they are completely forgiven they wouldn't see a brother in need of food and necessity and say bless you when they have means to help. What James is showing is that they of a dead faith are the like which try to enter in the house by a different way and have not believed on the true Jesus Christ from the depths of their heart by true conviction to begin with. Which further proves that it is God who can only change a heart which in turn makes a person have a new nature all by them choosing to hear the words of Jesus and believe. Therefore it's not man's own works along with Faith which saves but it is God's Faith and works that he works in a person is what does. Being saved by faith and works is to be understood that when a person comes to true Faith they will automatically produce good works, not because of themselves but because of the work that God has done in them. For any institution to use James to try and win the lost are in error and doesn't at all know what true faith is to begin with. Edited July 10, 2015 by Alejandro84 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thereselittleflower Posted July 10, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 58 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 5,457 Content Per Day: 1.69 Reputation: 4,220 Days Won: 37 Joined: 07/01/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted July 10, 2015 (edited) institutions cannot save anyone at all. most institutions condemn people and try to prevent them from finding the kingdom of heaven. I agree. Institutions instituted by men can do nothing to save us. A divinely appointed one, however, would not be one one should ignore. Edited July 10, 2015 by thereselittleflower Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thereselittleflower Posted July 10, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 58 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 5,457 Content Per Day: 1.69 Reputation: 4,220 Days Won: 37 Joined: 07/01/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted July 10, 2015 (edited) What must be pointed out is that James is writing to believers who already are believers, His epistle is for their edification when he says the things he says in his epistle. When Jesus preached the gospel he didn't sat have faith and good works in order to be saved, no, for he said turn and live. The purpose of James writing chapter 2 is to show believers who the tares are among them, for they to discern between those who know God and those who not, because not all men among the professing Jesus followers have faith. While I agree with you, for James states he will show his faith to others by his works, I believe there is more to this, which the underlying Greek reveals. Greek conveys ideas and thoughts through words our English cannot convey properly. Sometimes there is absolutely no English translation for a Greek word. One such word is Kecharitomene - and amazing word that takes a small paragraph to properly translate, which is why we never see it properly translated into its fullest sense. But that is not this topic. Looking at the Greek here is most instructive. The discussion on faith and works begins in verse Jas 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Notice this is a continuation of what he was just speaking of, good works ministering to the physical needs of other believers instead of ignoring their physcical needs while being all spiritual with them. The Greek for "even so" is καί kai "Kai" is a conjunction that indicates the continuing of the same thought. a primary particle, having a copulative and sometimes also a cumulative force Where English uses "and", Greek uses two - "kai" and "de" "De" conjoins two ideas but in such a way as to move from one idea to a different one. "kai" connects a train of thought that is continuous leading along the same path, not changing directions, with all the parts having in mind the same end in sight. And this is what we see James doing here. What came before provides the context for what comes next, a continuation of a train of thought that leads along the same path. Faith with out works is dead, being alone, just as a body without a spirit is alone and there is nothing to animate it, to make it useful. The question of why good works James speaks of are necessary for our salvation can be made clearer by approaching it by asking another question: Can one be saved who lives in disobedience to the two Great Commandments of God - The Royal Law? Can those be saved who do not love their neighbor as themselves? Can their faith save them? James says no. And the only way one can be empowered to obey these Two Great Commandments is through the empowring Grace of God, for all we do of our own power is as filthy rags. Edited July 10, 2015 by thereselittleflower Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Your closest friendnt Posted July 19, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,853 Content Per Day: 2.42 Reputation: 2,761 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/05/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted July 19, 2015 James was addressing beleivers in Jesus Christ, and he tried to teach them something,how to help one another. Like him self, who beleive and teach love one another, and to do good to one another, but if you don't reach out to others, believers or not believers and not always with material or monatery help but also reaching out with the word of life, if you beleive that Jesus died for all, and you never reach out to some one else besides your family, you still have obey God, you have beleive your self and you are guiding your family, but if you say I am an evangelists, and beleive you have a gift for that and you don't reach out to no one, then how can you see the fruit of your faith? James never made it an absolute, some time we help and get involve and some times we are not. Even Jesus who said the parable of the good Samaritan, also gave instruction to the disciples, when I sent you on a mission for me, don't stop to help anyone, even if you look left and right, keep your peace, keep going don't bother your self, my command to you is to go where I sent you. Like when he sent Peter to kornilius house. I have a friend who is a secret evangelist and full of the guidance of the holy spirit and works with Moslems Egyptians, been from that background, he mixes with them, going to the Mosk, participating, in all the Moslem ritual and holidays, been an exable Moslem, he said: I m only taulking and befriend the ones the holy spirit tells me, and I tell them only what the holly spirit guides me to say and how and when to say it. Many will praise Jesus, he is risking his life, and some will judge him. He said, when Jesus tells me, move to another Mosk I do. Move to another city I do. Stay low, till I call you to go I do. He said many have judge me, but the spirit can not condem me, because is the spirit that sents me, and tells me, well done good and faithful servant, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marilyn C Posted July 20, 2015 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 30 Topic Count: 267 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 13,206 Content Per Day: 3.49 Reputation: 8,497 Days Won: 12 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/06/1947 Share Posted July 20, 2015 (edited) Hi Your closest friendnt, I will pray for your friend as he listens to the Holy Spirit, that many will receive & then tell their family & friends. Marilyn. Edited July 20, 2015 by Marilyn C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Your closest friendnt Posted July 20, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,853 Content Per Day: 2.42 Reputation: 2,761 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/05/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted July 20, 2015 Hi Your closest friendnt, I will pray for your friend as he listens to the Holy Spirit, that many will receive & then tell their family & friends. Marilyn. Thank you, he is been followd, and he is waiting to see what will happen. Thanks for your prayers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SID Posted July 28, 2015 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 2 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/15/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted July 28, 2015 There is a verse in the Bible that says " to know good and not do it is sin " also" the man that knew the Lords will , but did not prepare or do the Lords will , shall be beaten with many stripes " just going off memory not sure where they are it in the NT . but the Idea is the same as James " faith without works is dead " Its a matter of Obedience or Disobedience . Unbelief would be the opposite of faith , so I see it as to obey or not to obey , after knowing the truth . Faith in its self is not the issue . We are saved by the Faith of Christ on our behalf . But walking in obedience is another thing . Thats what James is speaking of I believe. We must be saved before we can walk in Obedience . James is not taking about saving faith , but Obedient faith of the saved one . amen bob2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Your closest friendnt Posted August 4, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,853 Content Per Day: 2.42 Reputation: 2,761 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/05/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted August 4, 2015 I have an exable, where both faith and works have been aplly, and still the result is no fruit or dead, I believed with all my might and all my hart, that if I put the works, day in and day out, that I will see not a dead faith. ( WHAT IS NOT A DEAD FAITH) anyways? The result was still dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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