SUICIDE BOMBINGS

[JohnS]

http://www.icej.org/news/news19.html

HUMAN RIGHTS WATCH REPORT: SUICIDE BOMBINGS,

[Star]

Good post, John S!  I was wondering just how long it would take Human Rights Watch to FINALLY name the Palestinian terrorists.  They seem so biased in their reportings at times.  Sad that it took SUICIDE BOMBINGS, with some of the  murderers being practically children themselves, and women, too, before the horror was finally realzied.

[Guest Levi]

Any world view worth it's salt must have a balance Therefore I offer you a balancing opinion.

ES: Let's talk about the Middle East, where Sharon says we are experiencing terrorist bombings and therefore we have to have a big operation in the West Bank and root out terrorism and people say, hey you're violating human rights. The Israelis say there's no equivalency between suicide bombings and protecting our security and Palestinians say there's no equivalence between suicide bombings and the Occupation.

NC: This is the thirty-fifth year of a harsh, brutal and vicious occupation supported unilaterally by the United States, constant terror and atrocities. Suppose Palestinians say, well we're under terrorist attack for 35 years, therefore we have a right to carry out suicide bombings.

ES: Which is what they say.

NC: Do you accept this? Does anybody accept this?

ES: Nobody accepts this.

NC: All right, then how come everyone accepts the Israeli claim to be doing it, which is a much weaker claim, because after all there is no symmetry in the situation. They are the military occupiers. Palestine isn't occupying Israel, and this hasn't just started now, it's gone on for years.

ES: So does that in your mind justify

[GoldenDragon]

Levi

The only occupation taking place is the hordes of satanic, Arab Palestinians squatting in the Holyland.

Why don't you take your satanic babble to a pro Islamic website?

If you can't discern the satanic lies throughout the piece you just copied and pasted, then your heart is truly dark.

People like you just prolong the misery of the Palestinians by encouraging their use as political pawns. That encapsulates the Arab intent from the start.

Muhammad would love you. You are a good little Jihadist.

[Guest Levi]

The piece was an interview with Noam Chomsky, a well respected American activist. He is not a "satanic Muslim" as you would put it.

People like you just prolong the misery of the Palestinians by encouraging their use as political pawns.

And you aren't a political pawn? Ha! Who isn't?

Muhammad would love you. You are a good little Jihadist.

Well thank you, I'm flattered!

[HBendor]

Any world view worth it's salt must have a balance Therefore I offer you a balancing opinion.

ES: Let's talk about the Middle East, where Sharon says we are experiencing terrorist bombings and therefore we have to have a big operation in the West Bank and root out terrorism and people say, hey you're violating human rights. The Israelis say there's no equivalency between suicide bombings and protecting our security and Palestinians say there's no equivalence between suicide bombings and the Occupation.

NC: This is the thirty-fifth year of a harsh, brutal and vicious occupation supported unilaterally by the United States, constant terror and atrocities. Suppose Palestinians say, well we're under terrorist attack for 35 years, therefore we have a right to carry out suicide bombings.

ES: Which is what they say.

NC: Do you accept this? Does anybody accept this?

ES: Nobody accepts this.

NC: All right, then how come everyone accepts the Israeli claim to be doing it, which is a much weaker claim, because after all there is no symmetry in the situation. They are the military occupiers. Palestine isn't occupying Israel, and this hasn't just started now, it's gone on for years.

ES: So does that in your mind justify

[Star]

Noam Chomsky is far left of center, who, although at one time may have enjoyed some respect of his peers as a linguist and author, has now become a caricature of himself and a laughing stock. Only in the most liberal circles is he still read with any amount of interest. The rest of us just pick up a piece or two of his whenever we need a good laugh --- or cry,  depending upon how you look at it....

[GoldenDragon]

Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

[Guest Levi]

AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL

PRESS RELEASE

Israel/Occupied Territories: Israeli Defence Force war crimes must be investigated

Jerusalem -- at the launch of a report into the actions of the Israeli Defence Forces (IDF) in Jenin and Nablus in March and April 2002, Amnesty International said today that there is clear evidence that some of the acts committed by the IDF during Operation Defensive Shield were war crimes.

The report, Israel and the Occupied Territories: Shielded from Scrutiny - IDF violations in Jenin and Nablus, documents serious human rights violations by Israeli forces -- unlawful killings; torture and ill-treatment of prisoners; wanton destruction of hundreds of homes sometimes with the residents still inside; the blocking of ambulances and denial of humanitarian assistance; and the use of Palestinian civilians as "human shields". Following meetings with the IDF in May to discuss IDF actions and strategies, Amnesty International submitted most of the individual cases included in the report to the IDF for comment but, despite promises to answer on the cases, no response has yet been received.

Israel has the right to take measures to prevent unlawful violence, but in doing so they must not violate international law. In Jenin and Nablus, the IDF blocked access for days to ambulances, humanitarian aid and the outside world while the dead and wounded lay in streets or houses. In Jenin a whole residential quarter of the refugee camp was demolished leaving 4,000 people homeless.

"Up to now the Israeli authorities have failed in their responsibility to bring to justice the perpetrators of serious human rights violations. War crimes are among the most serious crimes under international law, and represent offences against humanity as a whole. Bringing the perpetrators of these crimes to justice is therefore the concern and the responsibility of the international community. All states who are parties to the Geneva Conventions must search for those alleged to have committed grave breaches of the Conventions and bring them to justice," said Amnesty International.

"There will be no peace or security in the region until human rights are respected. All attempts to end human rights violations and install a system of international protection in Israel and the Occupied Territories, in particular by introducing monitors with a clear human rights mandate, have been undermined by the refusal of the government of Israel. This refusal has been supported by the USA."

"It is imperative that the international community stop being an ineffective witness of the grave violations that take place in Israel and the Occupied Territories. Meaningful, urgent and appropriate action is long overdue," Amnesty International concluded.

Israel and the Occupied Territories Shielded from Scrutiny : IDF violations in Jenin and Nablus details the following violations:

Unlawful killings

"My family was at home on Friday 5 April. It was about 3 or 3.15 in the afternoon. We heard the knocking and calling for us to open the door. My sister 'Afaf said 'Just a moment'. She said this right away.... When she reached the door, she had just put her hand out to touch the handle of the door and it exploded. The door exploded in on her and the right side of her face was blown off.... I think she must have died instantly. We started shouting. The soldiers were just outside that door. The IDF began to shoot at the walls as if to try and scare us. We yelled at them to get an ambulance but they did not answer us."

"I looked and saw one of the large bulldozers coming from the west side bulldozing the al-Shu'bi family house and I saw the house tilt over. Without even thinking, I yelled to the soldier in the bulldozer, 'Let the residents leave the house.' At this point the soldier came out of the bulldozer, took his weapon and started to fire in my direction." Ten members of the Shu'bi family were buried under their house in Nablus for six days, only two survived.

These cases are just two of many documented by Amnesty International in Jenin and Nablus where people were killed or injured in circumstances suggesting that they were unlawfully killed. Palestinians not involved in fighting were killed as a result of disproportionate use of force and the failure of the IDF to take adequate measures to protect those not involved in the fighting.

In Jenin refugee camp and Jenin city, more than half of the 54 Palestinians who died as a result of the incursion between 3 and 17 April, appear not to have been involved in fighting. Among those killed were seven women, four children and six men aged over 55. Six had been crushed in houses. In Nablus, at least 80 Palestinians were killed by the IDF between 29 March and 22 April. Among the victims were seven women and nine children.

None of these killings has been impartially and thoroughly investigated, even where there have been strong reasons to believe they were unlawful. This failure on the part of the Israeli authorities has helped created a climate where some members of the IDF, aware that no action will be taken against them, continue to carry out unlawful killings.

The use of Palestinians for military operations or as "human shields"

"We entered my neighbour's house. The soldiers began to drill a hole in the wall. I went with three soldiers and the dog through the wall. The soldier kept the gun positioned at my head. This happened about six or seven times. In each case, when we passed from building to building the soldiers always kept me in front of them. At the last place I pulled the door back and just as I was walking out I heard shooting. The soldiers pulled me back from the alley and began to return fire. I was one metre behind them".

In both Jenin and Nablus, the IDF systematically compelled Palestinians to take part in military operations or to act as "human shields". Women as well as men were used in this way. Typically, the IDF would hold a Palestinian for several days and compel them to search property in the camp, thus putting them at serious risk of injury.

Torture or other cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment in arbitrary detention

" They started to beat us on the body and chest with rifle butts.....We were all gathered there in our underwear. It was cold. When we asked for blankets, we were beaten. We were not given any water."

In Jenin, men who had been rounded up and separated from women, children and men aged over 55 were stripped to their underwear, blindfolded and handcuffed. Many said they were beaten. One detainee died as a result of beatings.

In Nablus a similar pattern of torture and ill-treatment of people detained in mass round-ups was recorded. Immediately after arrest, detainees were taken to Shomron temporary detention centre. Those interviewed said that beatings took place during and after the arrests. The centre was overcrowded and detainees were given insufficient water, little food and were sometimes denied access to toilet facilities.

Blocking medical and humanitarian relief

'Atiya Hassan Abu Irmaila, 44 , was shot in the head by the IDF while in his home on 5 April. Desperate attempts by his family to call an ambulance failed. The family was even unable to leave their home to tell relatives that he had died. 'Atiya Hassan Abu Irmaila's body remained in the house for seven days.

Suna Hafez Sabreh, 35, was shot and seriously injured on 7 April while closing the door to her house. The family called an ambulance, but it failed to reach them, on at least one occasion because it had come under fire. An ambulance finally arrived two days later, after Suna Hafez Sabreh's condition had seriously deteriorated. She has since had five operations.

In both Jenin and Nablus, the IDF denied medical and humanitarian relief organizations access to the affected areas even after the fighting had stopped.

The IDF blocked medical aid for days; in addition they shot at ambulances or fired warning shots around them. Ambulance drivers were harassed or arrested. Meanwhile, the wounded lay for hours untended or were treated in homes, and the dead remained in the street or in houses for days. In several cases, people reportedly died in circumstances where lack of access to medical care may have caused or hastened their death.

Demolition of houses and property

"There is total devastation, no whole standing house, as though someone has bulldozed a whole community. If anyone was in a house they could not have survived..... There is nothing but rubble and people walking around looking dazed. There is a smell of death under the rubble."

These are the words of an Amnesty International delegate who entered Jenin refugee camp minutes after the IDF lifted the blockade on 17 April 2002. IDF forces that entered Jenin and Nablus brought tanks or bulldozers through roads, often stripping off the front of houses. In Hawashin and neighbouring areas of Jenin refugee camp 169 houses with 374 apartment units were bulldozed, mostly after the fighting had ceased. As a result more than 4,000 people were left homeless.

In both Jenin and in Nablus there were instances when the IDF bulldozed houses while residents were still inside. IDF soldiers either gave inadequate warnings or no warnings before houses were demolished and subsequently failed to take measures to rescue those trapped in the rubble and prevented others from searching for them. Amnesty International documented three such incidents leading to the deaths of 10 people. Six others on the hospital lists of those killed in Jenin were recorded as being crushed by rubble.

The full report is available online at:

http://web.amnesty.org/ai.nsf/recent/MDE151432002!Open

The executive summary is available at:

http://web.amnesty.org/ai.nsf/recent/MDE151492002!Open

[Guest Levi]

and all liars

So you have never lied??? Americans and their government don't lie??? Israeli's and their government don't lie??? If you believe that then you are extremely naive and uninformed. America has made an art of lying and Israel has become extremely masterful at deception. Yes, a lot of Arabs are "bad guys", but they are largely overshadowed by the scale and scope of the evil expansionist imperial powers of America and their client states.

Tell me, is their ever a time when lying might be justified? Are there any precedents in the Bible??? I think you will find there is.