Spirit versus flesh

[enoob57]

Well loved one it is a short distance to where the answer is-  the sanctified portion of the soul dwelling in the inner man of new spirit/with Holy Spirit
that >is redeemed< ... the body is pronounced from dust thou art and to dust thou shalt return and God is burning up the earth and all it contains along
with the heavens...  However He brings about the new body it will be where sin has never been nor even conceived and the sanctified portion of our
soul in the inner man with The Holy Spirit shall dwell in that new body... Love, Steven

 

Well my friend,  I actually find no scriptural support for such a position.

I find the scripture tells us the body, this very same body we have right now, will be resurrect and will be changed, its corruption will put on incorruption., and right now,  the same as our soul/spirit is,  our body is being sanctified, made holy.

This is what scripture actually says about the body.

1 Corinthians 15

52in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54But when this perishable will have put on the imperishable, and this mortal will have put on immortality, then will come about the saying that is written, "DEATH IS SWALLOWED UP in victory

 

Notice the words  "put on" in the passage above.

ἐνδύω endýō, en-doo'-o; from G1722 and G1416 (in the sense of sinking into a garment); to invest with clothing (literally or figuratively):—array, clothe (with), endue, have (put) on.

 

Our souls are eternal.  They are not perishable.   

Our BODIES are perishable.  Our BODIES are sown in corruption and raised in incorruption.  Our BODIES are perishable and PUT ON the imperishable.   Our BODIES are mortal and PUT ON immortality.     

Then and ONLY then will it come to pass that Death is swallowed up in victory.

 Well you must put in this verse to reason the two truths together
1 Cor 15:50
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the
kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
KJV
the only recourse of reason therefore is with this third truth in companion with these other two
Rev 21:4-7
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall
be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be
any more pain: for the former things are passed away. 5 And he that
sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said
unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful. 6 And he said
unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end.
I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and
he shall be my son.
KJV
If you believe God 'IS' speaking into the eternal state then nothing of the old may remain
for He Says ' former things are passed away. 5 And he that sat upon the throne said,
Behold, I make all things new' I believe in verbal plenary inspiration of God's Word  and
here is why I stand on what I stand on ...   Love, Steven

 

Edited September 11, 2015 by enoob57

[thereselittleflower]

Well loved one it is a short distance to where the answer is-  the sanctified portion of the soul dwelling in the inner man of new spirit/with Holy Spirit
that >is redeemed< ... the body is pronounced from dust thou art and to dust thou shalt return and God is burning up the earth and all it contains along
with the heavens...  However He brings about the new body it will be where sin has never been nor even conceived and the sanctified portion of our
soul in the inner man with The Holy Spirit shall dwell in that new body... Love, Steven

 

Well my friend,  I actually find no scriptural support for such a position.

I find the scripture tells us the body, this very same body we have right now, will be resurrect and will be changed, its corruption will put on incorruption., and right now,  the same as our soul/spirit is,  our body is being sanctified, made holy.

This is what scripture actually says about the body.

1 Corinthians 15

52in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54But when this perishable will have put on the imperishable, and this mortal will have put on immortality, then will come about the saying that is written, "DEATH IS SWALLOWED UP in victory

 

Notice the words  "put on" in the passage above.

ἐνδύω endýō, en-doo'-o; from G1722 and G1416 (in the sense of sinking into a garment); to invest with clothing (literally or figuratively):—array, clothe (with), endue, have (put) on.

 

Our souls are eternal.  They are not perishable.   

Our BODIES are perishable.  Our BODIES are sown in corruption and raised in incorruption.  Our BODIES are perishable and PUT ON the imperishable.   Our BODIES are mortal and PUT ON immortality.     

Then and ONLY then will it come to pass that Death is swallowed up in victory.

 Well you must put in this verse to reason the two truths together
1 Cor 15:50
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the
kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
KJV
the only recourse of reason theis n with this third truth in companion with these other two
Rev 21:4-7
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall
be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be
any more pain: for the former things are passed away. 5 And he that
sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said
unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful. 6 And he said
unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end.
I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and
he shall be my son.
KJV
If you believe God 'IS' speaking into the eternal state then nothing of the old may remain
for He Says ' former things are passed away. 5 And he that sat upon the throne said,
Behold, I make all things new' I believe in verbal plenary inspiration of God's Word  and
here is why I stand on what I stand on ...   Love, Steven

 

 

If our bodies we have now are resurrected and changed, their mortality puts on immortality,  the perishable nature of the body puts on the imperishable nature, then would mortal flesh and blood inherit the kingdom of God?

No. that's not what this verse says.

 

You have one verse that says  corruption does not inherit incorruption.

You have another verse that says corruption puts on incorruption.

 

So if you are correct in your use of the first verse, then you have scripture contradicting scripture.

But scripture does not contradict scripture and this is easily resolved.

 

Where it states corruption does not inherit incorruption it is saying that the unchanged physical body cannot enter heaven.

Where it states corruption puts on incorruption it is saying the CHANGED physical body CAN enter heaven.

 

There is no disagreement here between these verses.

 

Our bodies are being sanctified, made holy in the same manner our soul/spirit is being sanctified, made holy.   

Our "old man" is as much our souls/spirits a it is our body.

If nothing of our "old man"  may remain means nothing of our old body may remain, then nothing of our soul/spirit may remain either and then we would cease to be altogether.  So this is not what this means.   It means the unregenerated nature of man, the unchanged man.   Our bodies follow the inner transformation from the old man to the new man.   Just as our souls are regenereated, made new, so will our bodies be regenerated, made new.

 

We are saved as an entire being, which includes our bodies.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 11, 2015 by thereselittleflower

[enoob57]

agreeing to disagree !  

We also are not to worry ourselves with doubtful disputations... Love, Steven

[thereselittleflower]

agreeing to disagree !  

We also are not to worry ourselves with doubtful disputations... Love, Steven

yes we can agree to disagree.  

 

[AllTheGoodNamesAreTaken]

Agree to disagree ? How about agree to only quote pertinent text ? I love you all ! Shame on me !

[thereselittleflower]

the flesh is just the shell of the spirit

No - the body is as much a part of our human nature as our soul/spirit is.  This is why it is being sanctified.  This is why it is being raised and transformed.

 

 

 

 

DO we get new bodies that look the same a totally new

No, it is the same body resurected, changed and transformed, glorified.

 

 

 

so the people that go to hell are they in the old bodies or a floating spirit ?

 

For now they are souls without their bodies.

After the Great White Judgment, it will be body and soul/spirit

 

Remember, Jesus said:

Mat 10:28

And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

 

 

Edited September 12, 2015 by thereselittleflower

[Reinitin]

On 9/9/2015 at 0:21 PM, thereselittleflower said:

I appreciate you providing that information, but  it doesn't answer my question at all.

When do these resurrections happen?  Before or after God burns everything up?

 

 

 

On 9/9/2015 at 0:21 PM, thereselittleflower said:

I appreciate you providing that information, but  it doesn't answer my question at all.

When do these resurrections happen?  Before or after God burns everything up?

 

 

The harvest in Israel is gathered in three stages, so is God's harvest of man.. The first fruits waving of the sheaf,  Leviticus 23:9-10 , which was Christ and those resurrected with Him. Matthew 27:51-52 . The second stage of Israels harvest is the bringing in of the larger portion of the harvest  1 Corinthians 15:23  and  Revelation 1:18 (this could be the wedding feast or the rapture, at the Lords appearing. There is a third stage of the harvest. The harvest is not ended till the gleanings are added. All the loose stuff that fell to the ground was picked up and added. Remember Ruth  Ruth 2:3 She was gleaning the field.  So its one harvest but its divided into 3 different occasions. The gleaning is those who go through the great tribulation  Revelation 20:12. This is the wheat harvest I am not talking about the resurrection for judgement. Are you talking about, 2 peter 3:4-14 fire reserved for the day of judgment? cause the angles divide the wheat and the tare (gleaning) then cast the tare in the fire.  

[JohnD]

On 9/11/2015 at 9:53 AM, enoob57 said:

The area in question is what did God rebirth within us...  illustrated for understanding
 
This is our makeup and as you can see the inner man either dead spirit or s/Spirit alive...
Eph 3:16-18
16 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened
with might by his Spirit in the inner man; 17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by
faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love, 18 May be able to comprehend with
all saints  what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;
KJV
when we were born naturally were dead in spirit so all we had to draw from was the sensual
perceptions through the flesh from a world that was now under satans influence... being born
again in s/Spirit gives us the other living avenue of influence God's Word! Now the soulish part
of us mind, will, emotion has choice to draw from the bodies influence or God's Word - if Word
then we are being sanctified within our souls of newness of life in God / if body influence then
we are remaining carnal and useless to God's purpose within us... YET that which is born of
God now supernaturally and indwelt by The Holy Spirit is kept by God to fulfill His promise to
Himself by giving Himself to that new birth...

John 6:27
27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat
which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall
give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.
KJV
2 Cor 1:21-22
21 Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath
 anointed us, is God; 22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the
earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.
KJV
Eph 1:13-14
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth,
the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed,
ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, 14 Which is the
earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased
possession, unto the praise of his glory.
KJV
Eph 4:30-32
30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed
unto the day of redemption. 31 Let all bitterness, and wrath, and
anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with
all malice: 32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted,
forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.
KJV

This is why it cannot be of works nor can it 'NOT' be- for it is the covenant of Abraham where
God swore upon His Own Self because there 'IS' nothing greater to swear upon... that which
'IS' born of God cannot be unborn- just as one man's sin we were all sinners / so then One Man's
righteousness maybe our righteousness if we just eat of The Tree of Life...  Love, Steven

 

Cool graphics, btw.

I would only disagree with the seat of emotion and mind. We have bought into the Greek interpretation of the psuche from which we get psyche and determine this is where the mind actually is... 

If this were true, then apply this to angels or to God. Where is the mind or the emotion or the individuality? The soul? Does that make each angel and each person in the Godhead a duality of spirit and soul?

Obviously not.

The account of the Rich Man and Lazarus describes disembodied spirits in sheol (the grave). Note the similar traits between spirits and bodies. Sight, sensitivity to fire, thirst, having a finger that water could quench thirst, etc. Some argue this could all be anthropomorphic language used to describe what we do not have any reference to in this life. Very possible.  Also as possible is there may not be so drastic a difference between the body and the spirit as people tend to believe. That the spirit is not some invisible will-of-the-wisp with witch or genie powers. What is different is the two natures / realities.

So what is the soul?

I would suggest a buffer between the two realities that are us (as individuals).

I did not steal your graphics idea, this is several years old:

 

And to illustrate what I believe the soul actually is:

 

The soul  is a buffer between the two realities which exists only when the two realities coexist in us. When the spirit leaves the body in death the buffer is not needed and ceases to exist. Like the green color in the illustration above.

But the mind, the psyche, that which gives life to our bodies is all in the spirit.

[JohnD]

What died in Eden is essentially what you are asking.

Adam and Eve and all their descendants.

God was referring to physical death when he warned the day you eat of the fruit you will certainly die (Genesis 2:17).

But Adam (and presumably Eve) lived for another 900 years...

2 Peter 3:8 (AV)

8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

So, the 930 years Adam lived was within the Lord's timetable.

[JohnD]

Spirits do not die.

That's what sheol and the lake of fire are all about: where to dispose of the created, fallen spirits that cannot die for all eternity. 

Matthew 25:41 (AV)

41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

Isaiah 66:22–24 (AV)

22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.

23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

Mark 9:43–48 (AV)

43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

46 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:

48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

Worm = spirit.

What we think of as a lower form of life today was depicted in that day to be a full living creature that was always inside of something (fruit, the ground, a scoop full of dirt). Our living spirit is within each of us (is the reason for the choice "worm").