Defense of the Post-Trib / Pre-Wrath Position

[DeighAnn]

43 minutes ago, Uriah said:

Hi DeighAnn

Hi Uriah,  I am really tired and just wanted to reply and I think I may have to clarify so wanted to apologize and I will get back to it later.  Time for a nap.  

[Diaste]

18 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

NO ONE on earth today has seen miracles like those of the past.  WE are under FAITH.  That is why there are no signs.  

Yet there are reports of the dead raised from all over the world. Sight to the blind, deaf ears opened, the lame walk, angels appear, etc. 

18 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

UNTIL Satan and his angels arrive.  AND the two witnesses.  

HE is given a crown and he is given power and it will be SUPERNATURAL and it will be for the whole world to see.  

HE is so good that the time had to be SHORTENED.  That is one of the scariest verses in the bible.  It is going to be a TEST but who better to TEST in such a manner than THOSE OF US WHO HAVE ALL THIS KNOWLEDGE at our fingertips in the blink of an eye.  NEVER have Gods people had the  OPPORTUNITY to truly find HIS TRUTH

but they don't. and they wont BUT THIS IS WHAT WE ARE SUPPOSED TO BE DOING IS PUTTING OUT HIS TRUTH AND WE ARE AMONGST THE WOLVES, MAKE NO MISTAKE and many of them are better at LOOKING and acting like SHEEP THAN we are.  

So I agee.  THE FALLING AWAY is of the church SINCE they are the only ones  who have COME TO.  And the whole world will be deceived. 

So all that pre trib death and destruction IS CARNAL.  They can't see THE DEATH OF THE SOULS which has no effect upon the flesh body.   Satan is making ZOMBIES.  the walking DEAD.  

 

18 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

 

WHO HAS THEM KILLED?  That is what tells us WHO they TORMENT. 

We are going to LOVE THEM because we know what they will be giving is truth.  THE REST OF THE WORLD won't know because they believe Satan is "God" and so believe they are of the devil themselves.  It's deception.  

Okay.

18 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

 

No, the days is about a week longer than the months.

I have no idea what this means.

18 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Who is to say?  WELL once they are killed within  the same hour CHRIST RETURNS so we know the two witnesses come at the LAST 1/2 unless you can find a different way that would work but since the kingdoms of this world become His at that point I DON'T.  

No. Christ doesn't return the same hour the witnesses are killed, unless you have evidence from scripture to support this.

18 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

 

tHE WRATH/great tribulation doesn't begin until the two witnesses rise up.  UNTIL THAT VERY POINT there is still CHOICES souls can make.  

It's a mistake to equate God's wrath with GT. It's a false narrative used as a justification for a pretrib rapture. 

18 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Christ comes when the 7th seal is opened and THAT IS WHEN THE ANGELS FIRST GET THE TRUMPS AND VIALS.  

No. Jesus comes at the 6th seal.

Rev 6

And they said to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide usb from the face of the One seated on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb. 17For the great day of Theirc wrath has come, and who is able to withstand it?”

[Diaste]

19 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

You may be missing the power of what will be taking place when Satan and his angels are cast to earth. 

Do you feel the whole world is being deceived?  Has there been a deadly wound that the fixing of has made the whole world notice the 'fixer' of it yet?  Because until that happens,  whatever is happening is only under the 'influence' of the prince of the power of the air, but not the 'man of sin cast down to the earth with his angels who receive their kingdom for an hour'

I'm not missing it and that wasn't the point. You said something about 'replacing' and I pointed out the time of the witnesses is opposition to Satan's scheme. 

Once that treaty is confirmed and the Temple construction begun the witnesses will appear. They are not in the 2nd half of the week. The 1st seal did not open 2000 years ago. Trumps and bowls do not follow from the 7th seal. Jesus returns at the 6th seal/7th trump.

[Brother Duke]

6 hours ago, Diaste said:

Once that treaty is confirmed and the Temple construction begun the witnesses will appear. They are not in the 2nd half of the week. The 1st seal did not open 2000 years ago. Trumps and bowls do not follow from the 7th seal. Jesus returns at the 6th seal/7th trump.

I do not believe in a treaty being confirmed by the anti-christ or a new physical temple.  The covenant that was confirmed was with God and Christ.  The temple is our body so no need there either.  Christ is the one that put an end to sacrifice and confirmed the New Covenant and was killed in the middle of his ministry,  not some anti-christ.   People are looking for the wrong signs.  

 

Here is the only sign I know of before the tribulation.

2 Thess 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

 

And the falling away is not the church departing in a secret rapture.

 

[DeighAnn]

6 hours ago, Diaste said:

Yet there are reports of the dead raised from all over the world. Sight to the blind, deaf ears opened, the lame walk, angels appear, etc. 

 If you think those kinds of miracles are the same thing going to be seen when Satan and his angels hit the earth, OK


 

 

6 hours ago, Diaste said:

I have no idea what this means.

compare the days given in days,
with

 

the days given in months,

and you will find one 'group' 
to have a couple more days than the other.  


 

6 hours ago, Diaste said:

No. Christ doesn't return the same hour the witnesses are killed, unless you have evidence from scripture to support this.

 

12And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

13And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.

 

6 hours ago, Diaste said:

It's a mistake to equate God's wrath with GT. It's a false narrative used as a justification for a pretrib rapture. 

The day I let a FALSE DOCTRINE dictate what I believe and what I don't, is the day I quit studying the WORDS OF GOD.  

HOW IS IT YOU CAN SEE THE PURPOSE OF IT?  WHAT part of them CAUSING CONFUSION and trying to make us AVOID even having discussions on certain subjects DON'T YOU GET?????

You PROBABLY don't even see all the different areas that the 'pretribrap' has an 'effect' on what people believe and don't believe, and they have NO IDEA that it comes from that doctrine in one way or another.

It is EXACTLY as intended by the Adversary.  Remember 'the mystery of iniquity doth already work'?  WHERE do you think it does most of it's work?   

Shoot we can't even discuss what is written except on the most basic levels because we can never get past that stuff and everyone is so worried about being wrong we can't get to truth.  BUT just as God said, my people perish for lack of knowledge.  


 

 

6 hours ago, Diaste said:

No. Jesus comes at the 6th seal.

The 6th seal is SATAN coming TO KILL THOSE WHO ARE TO BE KILLED LIKE THOSE UNDER THE ALTAR WERE KILLED.  

THEN COMES THE AVENGING.  

THE NUMBER 6 IS ASSOCITATED WITH WHOM?  Is God or Christ or ANYTHING or anyone ever associated with the number 6?   The SEAL BEING NUMBER 6 is our FIRST HINT as to what it is about don't you think?

666

OR, DO THE SEALS JUST COMPLETELY SKIP THE COMING OF SATAN


Before you say 'i don't believe in that' please at least scan these

Have you ever looked up the number 6 and its spiritual significance?  I am going to go and pull up 3 things that pop up in a search engine, and I am NOT SAYING I WILL AGREE WITH THEM or endorse them as GODS TRUTH but just so you don't think I have some personal bias....
 

biblestudy.org
The Meaning of Numbers: The Number 6
The number 6 and its meaning is related to man and human weakness, the evils of the devil and the manifestation of sin. Man was created on day six of creation week. Men are appointed 6 days to labor.

A Hebrew slave had to serve 6 years before he could be released in the 7th year. Six years were appointed for the land to be sown and harvested. The number is also associated with Satan in his temptation of Jesus.

The bringing together of triple six is the mark of the end time Beast power of Revelation. As such, it represents the very best system of governance that mankind can produce without God and under the constant influence of his chief adversary.

numerology nation.
What Does the Number 6 Mean in the Bible?
Number 6 in the Bible is symbolic of man, sin, rest, and true peace after strife.

Number 6 serves as a symbol of man simply because of the fact that God created man in his own image on the sixth day, and since God completed his perfect creation (the Earth and the eternal kingdom) on the sixth day and rested on the seventh day, humans are also appointed to follow the Almighty Godʼs cycle of work and rest.

In other words, mankind is appointed to work according to God’s purpose—to toil hard and complete six days of labor before resting on the 7th day, just as the Lord rested, thereby symbolizing rest after strife.

There are also other examples of the number 6 related to the idea of “work” in the Bible. It’s written that God commanded Israel and Joshua to walk around the city for six days with seven priests each carrying a trumpet, and on the early morning hours of the seventh day, with the priests blowing the horns, the walls of the city came crashing down because of God’s power.



biblebelievers.org
PART II
ITS SPIRITUAL SIGNIFICANCE

SIX

Six is either 4 plus 2, i.e., man's world (4) with man's enmity to God (2) brought in: or it is 5 plus 1, the grace of God made of none effect by man's addition to it, or perversion, or corruption of it: or it is 7 minus 1, i.e., man's coming short of spiritual perfection. In any case, therefore, it has to do with man; it is the number of imperfection; the human number; the number of MAN as destitute of God, without God, without Christ.

The Hebrew #$#$' (shaish) is supposed to be derived from the root #$da#$af (shah-dash), but nothing is known about its origin or signification.

At any rate it is certain that man was created on the sixth day, and thus he has the number six impressed upon him. Moreover, six days were appointed to him for his labour; while one day is associated in sovereignty with the Lord God, as His rest.

Six, therefore, is the number of labour also, of man's labour as apart and distinct from God's rest. True, it marks the completion of Creation as God's work, and therefore the number is significant of secular completeness.

The serpent also was created on the sixth day.

The Sixth Commandment relates to the worst sin,—murder.

The sixth clause of the Lord's prayer treats of sin.

Six is the number stamped on all that is connected with human labour. We see it stamped upon his measures which he uses in his labour, and on the time during which he labours. And we see this from the very beginning.

The number six is stamped upon the measurements of the Great Pyramid, the unit of which was the inch and its sexagesimal multiples. The first multiple is the foot, 12 inches (2x6); and after this the rises are 18 (3x6), 24 (4x6), 30 (5x6), and 36 (6x6 or 62=the yard).*

* On the other hand, the sacred cubit, though not a round number, was a multiple, indeed the square of 5, being 25.3 inches.

Corresponding to these measures we have the first division of the natural time-spaces which measure man's labour and rest,—the day, consisting of 24 hours (4x6), divided into the day and night of 12 hours. The multiples and subdivisions are also stamped by the number six. The months being 12; while the hours consist of 60 minutes (6x10), and the minutes of 60 seconds (6x10).

The base of the Great Pyramid shows that the unit-inch* was obtained by a division of the original circuit, 36,000 inches or 1,000 yards.

* Differing from the Pyramid inch by only 1 in 40,000.

On account of the curse (Gen 3), the number six tells not only of labour, but of "labour and sorrow," and it specially marks all that is "under the sun," all that is "not of God." The true "sabbath-keeping," now, is in reserve; for there is no rest apart from "peace with God"; the rest which God gives and which we find (Matt 11:28).

But now to turn to the Scripture examples and illustrations, we note first that

CAIN'S DESCENDANTS
are given only as far as the sixth generation.

IMPERFECTION
When twelve (the number of governmental perfection) is divided, it indicates imperfection in rule and administration. Solomon's throne had six steps (1 Kings 10:19), and his kingdom was soon divided. The 12 loaves of the Shew Bread were divided into two sixes (Lev 24:6), and the Twelve Tribes were divided tribes.

Abraham's six intercessions for Sodom (Gen 18) marked man's imperfection in prayer, which falls short of that of the Divine Intercessor.

THE BURNT OFFERING IN GENESIS 22
is mentioned six times (vv 2,3,6,7,8,13) because the seventh was that of the Divine Substitute which God Himself would provide (v 8).

"THE MAN OF THE EARTH."
In Psalms 9 and 10, through which there is a running alphabetical acrostic, uniting the two Psalms, six letters of the alphabet are wanting (m to c). It is the Scripture which describes "the Man of the Earth" (Psa 10:18), the coming Anti-Christ, and the Apostasy which marks his presence, called the "times of trouble" (Psa 9:9, 10:1).

SIX EARTHQUAKES
are mentioned:—Exodus 19:18; 1 Kings 19:11; Amos 1:1 (Zech 14:5); Matt 27:54, 28:2; Acts 16:26.

THE SIX YEARS OF ATHALIAH'S REIGN
were six years of usurpation of the throne of David (2 Kings 11; 2 Chron 23). Athaliah slew all the seed-royal, as she thought; but God in His providence over-ruled events so that one son, Joash, was "rescued from among the king's sons that were slain." He was hid in the house of God during the six years with Jehosheba, who was shut up with him, her affections being centred upon him, while Jehoiada her husband was occupied for the king, going about and securing loyal adherents by his simple repetition of Jehovah's promise, "Behold, the king's son shall reign, as the LORD hath said of the sons of David" (2 Chron 23:3). This promise was the support of the hearts of the faithful during those six years of usurpation, until the seventh year came, and Joash was manifested upon his throne and all his enemies destroyed. Which things are a type of the King's son, even Jesus, who was rescued, by resurrection, from among the dead, and is now hid in the house of God on high. While He is seated and expecting, (Heb 10:12,13), all who are "in Christ" are hid with Him (Col 3:3); and while, in this aspect, their hearts (like Jehosheba's) are occupied with the person of the King, their activities (like Jehoiada's) are going out for Him, witnessing and testifying to the blessed truth that the King is coming again and will surely reign, and the seventh year of blessing will come at last. Until that moment arrives, the promise of Jehovah will be their support, that the Seed of the woman shall in due time crush the serpent's head (Gen 3:15).

SIX TIMES JESUS CHARGED WITH HAVING A DEVIL
Mark 3:22, and Matthew 12:24, "He hath Beelzebub."
John 7:20, "Thou hast a devil."
John 8:48, "Say we not well that...Thou hast a devil?"
John 8:52, "Now we know that Thou hast a devil."
John 10:20, "He hath a devil, and is mad."
Luke 11:15, "He casteth out devils by Beelzebub."
This is most significant. Man's enmity to the Person of the Lord Jesus is thus branded with man's number. It will repay careful study to note the chronological order of these occasions and speakers. The very order and structure is important.

 
A. 1. Beelzebub, and casting out devils.

B. 2. A simple charge, "Thou hast,"
C. 3. Introduced by "Say we not well," [in John 8]

C. 4. Introduced by "Now we know." [in John 8]

B. 5. A simple charge, "He hath."
A. 6. Beelzebub, and casting out devils.
 
THE SIX-FOLD OPPOSITION TO THE WORK OF GOD
on the part of man is seen in the opposition to Nehemiah. It forms a lesson for all time, being enacted every day where any, like Nehemiah, begin a work for God.

There was—

Grief, 2:10.
Laughter, 2:19.
Wrath, indignation, and mocking, 4:1-4.
Fighting and open opposition, 4:7,8.
Conference, 6:1,2.—"Come and let us meet together." "Let us take counsel together" (v 7). This attempt was to "weaken them from the work" (v 9). But Nehemiah refused to parley with the enemies, or meet them in conference.
False friends, 6:10-14.—Here was the greatest danger of all. Satan, "as an angel of light," seeking to mar, and hinder, and stop the work.
The careful study of these six steps in man's opposition to the work of God will yield great spiritual profit, and arm us against the wiles of the Devil.

WORDS
Now let us pass to the number, as it concerns words, and first note that there are

SIX WORDS USED FOR MAN
in the Bible. Four in the Old Testament, and two in the New.

1. Md) (ad-dahm). Man as a human being (Lat. homo), having regard to his being created, and to his earthly origin. This is the word used of Messiah as the "Son of Man." See a few examples:—

Gen 1:26, "Let us make man."
Gen 2:7, "God formed man of the dust of the ground."
Gen 3:24, "So He drove out the man."
Isa 2:11, "The lofty looks of man shall be humbled."
Isa 2:17, "The loftiness of man shall be bowed down."
Isa 2:9, "The mean man boweth down."
Isa 2:9, "The great man [Ish, see next word] humbleth himself."
Isa 5:15, "The mean man shall be brought down."
Isa 5:15, "The mighty man [Ish] shall be humbled."
2 Sam 7:19, "Is this the manner of man, O LORD God?"
Psa 8:4, "What is man [Enosh, see the third word] that Thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that Thou visitest him?"
2. #y) (Ish). Man, as strong and vigorous of mind and body. Man with some degree of pre-eminence of strength and endowment.

Zech 6:12, "Behold the man whose name is the Branch."
Psa 22:6, "I am a worm, and no man; a reproach of men [Adam, see No. 1], and despised of the people."
Psa 25:12, "What man is he that feareth the LORD?"
Psa 39:11, "When Thou with rebukes dost correct man for iniquity: surely every man is vanity."
Psa 90 Title, "The man of God."
3. #wn) (Enosh). Weak man, as mortal and subject to suffering and death; the heir of corruption.

Psa 8:4, "What is man that Thou art mindful of him? or the son of man" [Adam, see No. 1].
Psa 73:5, "They are not in trouble as other men."
Psa 103:15, "As for man, his days are as grass."
4. rbg (Gehver), a strong man, a man of might and valour. Man as distinct from God (Job 22:2), and from a woman or wife (Prov 6:34).

Zech 13:7, "Awake, O sword, against...the man that is My fellow, saith the LORD of Hosts."
Exo 10:11, "Go now, ye that are men."
Exo 12:37, "Six hundred thousand on foot that were men."
Psa 52:7, "Lo, this is the man that made not God his strength."
Jer 17:5, "Cursed be the man that trusteth in man" [Adam, see No. 1].
Jer 17:7, "Blessed is the man that trusteth in the LORD."
Then in the New Testament we have the two words:

5. anqrwpoV, which answers to Adam (No. 1), and

6. anhr, which answers to Ish (No. 2).

It is worthy of note that these four Hebrew words are each used of the Messiah, and that the Holy Spirit has revealed a blessing for each in and through the man Christ Jesus.

Md) (Adam), Psa 32:2, "Blessed is the man unto whom the LORD imputeth not iniquity."
#y) (Ish), Psa 1:1, "Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful."
#wn) (Enosh), Job 5:17, "Happy* is the man whom God correcteth, therefore despise not thou the chastening of the Almighty."
* The same word as in the other passages, viz., r#) (Ashrai), blessed. Lit. Oh, the blessednesses of.

rbg (Gehver), Psa 94:12, "Blessed is the man whom Thou chastenest, O LORD, and teachest him out of Thy law."
THE SERPENT HAS SIX NAMES
The Talmud calls attention to this fact, and gives the following:—

#xn (nachash), a shining one (Gen 3:1; Job 26:13. See also No. 6 below).
bw#k( (ak-shoov), from #k(, "to bend back," "lie in wait." Translated adder, Psa 140:3.
h(p) (ephah), any poisonous serpent. Translated adder; also viper (Job 20:16; Isa 30:6, 59:5).
yn(pc (tsiph-ohnee), a small hissing serpent (Isa 11:8, 59:5; Prov 23:32), from (pc, to hiss. Translated viper.
Nynt (Tanneen), a great serpent, or dragon (from the root "to stretch out" or "extend"), on account of its length (Exo 7:9,10,12).
Pr# (Saraph), from root "to burn"; a venomous, deadly serpent, from the heat and inflammation caused by its bite. Translated serpents, Num 21:8; Isa 14:29, 30:6.
THE LION HAS SIX NAMES IN THE OLD TESTAMENT
and all are found in the Book of Job (Job 4:10,11 and 28:8).

yr) (Aree), the roaring lion (Gen 49:9; Num 23:24, 24:9, etc.).
lx# (Shachal), the fierce lion, with special reference to his voice (Job 4:10, 10:16, 28:8; Psa 91:13; Hosea 13:7).
rypk (K'pheer), the young lion—not a whelp as in Eze 19:2—(Judg 14:5; Job 4:10, 38:39; Psa 17:12, 34:10).
#yl (Lah-yish), the old lion—not from age, but brave and strong—(Job 4:11; Prov 30:30; Isa 30:6).
)ybl (Lahvee), the old lioness (from root to roar) (Gen 49:9; Num 23:24; Deut 33:20, etc.).
Cx# (Shachatz), the lion's whelps (Job 28:8, 41:34; translated "of pride").
SOME WORDS THAT OCCUR SIX TIMES
Nwdb) (avad-dohn), destruction.
+wm (moht), bar, staff, or yoke.
Mtkm (mich-tahm), Michtam (Psa 16, 56, 57, 58, 59 and 60). This word is connected with death, and at the same time with resurrection also (3x2). It is from Mtk, to cut in, engrave (LXX, sthlografia, a sculptured writing; sthlh was the word for grave-stone). Hence "Michtam," like our "Resurgam," indicates that these six Psalms, though connected with death, point to the hope of resurrection. This is notably true of Psalm 16, and may be traced in the others also.
aiscunh (aischunee), shame.
allattw (allatto), to change.
asebeia (asebeia), ungodliness.
atimazw (atimazo), entreat shamefully.
bdelugma (bdelugma), abomination. Three in Gospels: Matt 24:15; Mark 13:14; Luke 16:15. Three in Revelation: Rev 17:4, 5, 21:27.
For the combinations of 6, 66, and 666, see further under the number Six hundred and sixty six.

ADDITIONAL MISCELLANEOUS ILLUSTRATIONS
Six times our Lord was asked for a sign:—

The Pharisees, Matt 12:38; Mark 8:11.
The Sadducees, Matt 16:1.
The Disciples, Matt 24:3; Mark 13:4.
The people, Luke 11:16.
The Jews, John 2:18.
The people, John 6:30.
Six persons bore testimony to the Saviour's innocency:—

Pilate, Luke 23:14.
Herod, Luke 23:15.
Judas, Matt 27:3.
Pilate's wife, Matt 27:19.
The dying thief, Luke 23:41.
The centurion, Luke 23:47.
number10.htm

[DeighAnn]

7 hours ago, Diaste said:

Jesus returns at the 6th seal/7th trump.

The post above this one, wouldn't let me edit so sorry for the mistakes.

Then what happens at the 7th seal?

[Diaste]

17 hours ago, Brother Duke said:

2 Thess 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

2 Thess 2:4...He will oppose and exalt himself above every so-called god or object of worship. So he will seat himself in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God.

That temple isn't the church. 

 

[Diaste]

On 1/15/2023 at 11:19 AM, DeighAnn said:

On 1/15/2023 at 4:00 AM, Diaste said:

No. Christ doesn't return the same hour the witnesses are killed, unless you have evidence from scripture to support this.

12And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

13And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.

Yes, but this doesn't say anything about this being the moment of Jesus' return. Verse 13 isn't a 2nd advent verse as far as I can tell.

On 1/15/2023 at 11:19 AM, DeighAnn said:

On 1/15/2023 at 4:00 AM, Diaste said:

It's a mistake to equate God's wrath with GT. It's a false narrative used as a justification for a pretrib rapture. 

The day I let a FALSE DOCTRINE dictate what I believe and what I don't, is the day I quit studying the WORDS OF GOD.  

HOW IS IT YOU CAN SEE THE PURPOSE OF IT?  WHAT part of them CAUSING CONFUSION and trying to make us AVOID even having discussions on certain subjects DON'T YOU GET?????

That doesn't affect me as I don't listen to many voices. I also don't think I'm avoiding anything. Maybe I am. How would I know?

 

On 1/15/2023 at 11:19 AM, DeighAnn said:

You PROBABLY don't even see all the different areas that the 'pretribrap' has an 'effect' on what people believe and don't believe, and they have NO IDEA that it comes from that doctrine in one way or another.

The doctrine of pretrib is based in fear and plays on the lust of the flesh and the pride of life. That's the root cause of all false doctrine, not just pretrib. Pretrib is bad enough but it isn't the only problematic bit of doctrine out there. There's a flavor of false teaching somewhere to fit every palate.

 

On 1/15/2023 at 11:19 AM, DeighAnn said:

It is EXACTLY as intended by the Adversary.  Remember 'the mystery of iniquity doth already work'?  WHERE do you think it does most of it's work?

In the heart and mind and it began here:

“You will not surely die,” the serpent told her. 5“For God knows that in the day you eat of it, your eyes will be opened and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”

6When the woman saw that the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eyes, and that it was desirable for obtaining wisdom, she took the fruit and ate it.

Nothing has changed.

 

On 1/15/2023 at 11:19 AM, DeighAnn said:

 Shoot we can't even discuss what is written except on the most basic levels because we can never get past that stuff and everyone is so worried about being wrong we can't get to truth.  BUT just as God said, my people perish for lack of knowledge.  

It's a problem. Lots of voices out there confirming whatever one wants to believe. None of us are immune. Some are self aware of the problem in themselves and strive to find truth in the Word. 

[Diaste]

On 1/15/2023 at 11:19 AM, DeighAnn said:

On 1/15/2023 at 4:00 AM, Diaste said:

Yet there are reports of the dead raised from all over the world. Sight to the blind, deaf ears opened, the lame walk, angels appear, etc. 

 If you think those kinds of miracles are the same thing going to be seen when Satan and his angels hit the earth, OK

I didn't say that. I was pointing out signs of the power of God are reported everywhere. You said there were no miracles like in the past. I'm pointing out that miracles like Jesus performed are reported across the world.

Maybe you meant a more specific type of sign and not a general lack of any sign or wonder. 

I have no experience in any kind of numbers as they relate to divine truth in prophecy. I can see numbers like 7 and 12 and 24, etc., but I don't know if those numbers can be translated into some significance for our daily walk beyond what God has deemed in His overall plan and administration. I see no major, or even minor, teaching about this in the NT. One would think it would be there if it was vital and important. 

[Diaste]

On 1/15/2023 at 11:23 AM, DeighAnn said:

The post above this one, wouldn't let me edit so sorry for the mistakes.

Then what happens at the 7th seal?

You aren't going to like this but...

"When the Lamb opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven for about half an hour."

That's all that's written and it's all I see. I could speculate, as others have, about the extent of this silence and it's purpose and meaning, but it would just that, speculation. I can say it's not the drawing back of the curtain revealing the trumpets.

That would not be possible since the Lord returns at both the 6th seal and the 7th trump hence, the trumps are blowing in some concurrent/successive fashion during the opening of seals.