Florida high school principal removed after defending Texas officer

[Guest shiloh357]

The problem, BE is that nothing this principal said or did was prohibited at all and did not violate any laws for public employees with respect to the information you cite above.   The principal was speaking as a private person expressing support for the policeman in the event in question and there was nothing in what that principal said that was a fire-able offense.    They trumped up what he said to be some awful insensitive thing and it wasn't.   He said nothing derogatory toward any other individual involved in the incident in McKinney.   The problem is that they didn't like his comment and they punished him for it. 

 

I can promise you 100% that if he had been disciplined/punished  for making a statement in favor of homosexual marriage and trans-genders, liberals would screeching to the heavens about his freedom speech being violated. 

 

That's because liberals nothing if not brazenly hypocritical.

[Burning_Ember]

Comments on whether the officer was totally justified in his actions pointing weapons at people or taking down that 15 year old girl are probably a bit more relevant when you are the principal of a school with 99% minority students during a media storm about long unsolved race issues.

 

Especially when you don't actually get fired but re-assigned.

[Guest shiloh357]

None of that overrides the fact that his comments were not made as a principal of a school but as a private and free American.   They may not have liked his comments or agreed with his point of view, but any form of reprisal because you don't like your employee's comments is a violation of his Constitutional freedom.     The circumstances the police officer was in justified his actions.   The 15 year old girl was out of control and unruly and he was surrounded and given the situation he was in was 100% justified.   The principal's comments were right, but not politically correct and that's why he was punished.

 

and again, you would be making the opposite argument if this had been a statement of support for homosexual perversion.   If he had been punished for supporting "gay" rights, you would defending him furiously.

 

the problem is not about race, it is about a generation of immature, selfish little brats who don't think they need to submit to authority and they have discovered that they can cry "race"  to gain sympathy in order to justify their rebellion against authority.    Race is not the issue at all.

[Burning_Ember]

None of that overrides the fact that his comments were not made as a principal of a school but as a private and free American.   They may not have liked his comments or agreed with his point of view, but any form of reprisal because you don't like your employee's comments is a violation of his Constitutional freedom.     The circumstances the police officer was in justified his actions.   The 15 year old girl was out of control and unruly and he was surrounded and given the situation he was in was 100% justified.   The principal's comments were right, but not politically correct and that's why he was punished.

 

and again, you would be making the opposite argument if this had been a statement of support for homosexual perversion.   If he had been punished for supporting "gay" rights, you would defending him furiously.

 

the problem is not about race, it is about a generation of immature, selfish little brats who don't think they need to submit to authority and they have discovered that they can cry "race"  to gain sympathy in order to justify their rebellion against authority.    Race is not the issue at all.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/252565872/Graziosi-v-City-of-Greenville

 

As this court decision states, speaking as a private citizen on facebook on a matter of public concern does not mean you cannot be fired. Maintaining discipline and leadership means that you can in fact, be fired. which the Principal was not. He was re-assigned.

 

Whether you find his comments right isn't terribly relevant, as it's his position of leadership of the school full of minority students, what he says on hot button issues concerning race and law enforcement is pretty relevant in that context.

[Guest shiloh357]

Yeah and here's the problem....  The case you cite is about a an employee who was critical about his employer.    That is not analogous to this issue.  The principal was not criticizing his boss.    There are numerous cases where employees have gotten on facebook and bad mouthed their employers and/or slandered them and were punished for it.

 

That's not remotely close to what we have here.   We have a person was speaking on an issue that had nothing to do with his employer.   He was not attacking any policy or practice related to his job, was not on the company dime and was speaking only for himself.   His comments did not in any way cast a reflection on his employer or any co-worker.   This was not an incident that happened at school.   So nothing he said in any way, was deserving of reprisal.   He broke no laws and did nothing to shame or disrespect his employer. 

 

And to the issue about him being in a school with minority students...    The police officer's actions had nothing to do with race and there more than black students at the party   It happened to be a black girl who was being unruly, but the cop would have responded the same way to anyone who was as out of control as she was, regardless of skin color.

 

All you can do is cite a case where employees were punished for publicly criticizing and shaming their employer and pretending that this is the same thing, when it is not.   So there is no reason to  accept your analysis.  

[Burning_Ember]

The principal is accountable not just to his employer, but he also works for his teachers, for his students, and for the parents of his students. I imagine he received some backlash. Key thing here, he got moved to a different position. Not fired.

 

I've presented three other links on this subject as evidence.

 

By all means, if you have evidence stating that in Florida, a school system would have no right to reassign (not fire, reassign) one of their employees for something they say publicly as a private citizen, I'm sure you have some kind of evidence to present for this. 

 

It might be good to note that Florida is a right to work state, so an employer can fire you for pretty much any reason they want.

[Guest shiloh357]

Bottom line he was punished and his first amendment rights were violated.   None of the links you have provided in this thread show where this man deserved any kind of discipline whatsoever.   You have not provided ANYTHING that supports the decision  to discipline this principal.  He did nothing worthy of any kind of backlash.   10 years ago, this would not have been an issue.   

 

They have no constitutional right to discipline someone for speaking their mind on a public issue that has no bearing on that school or anyone that works there.   The problem is that we have an immature, liberal, juvenile society that thinks that if they don't like what you say, they can punish you for saying it.   We have a liberal anti-freedom culture that rejects constitutional law and is completely intolerant of any view it disagrees with.  

 

This principal should not be reassigned as he said nothing offense or out of line.   They simply didn't like what he said.   The whole point behind freedom of speech is that person A  might not like what person B says, but person A is not allowed to enact any kind of reprisal on person B for speaking his mind.    If we have gotten to the point where  you are not allowed to speak your mind without fearing that your employer can and will punish you if he disagrees with you, in order to silence you, then freedom speech no longer exists.

 

If this is had been a priest in a church in Florida and he said something in favor of gay marriage and the church fired him, you would be on here demonizing the church for violating his freedom of speech, and you know it. 

 

 

Sorry BE, but you still can't make a convincing case against this man or my position.  

[kwikphilly]

Blessings,,,,

    I probably should have read more posts on this thread but I didn't ,,,,,anyway,forgive me if I repeat what anyone has already said.

    There has been much talk about this case here in Florida,especially within groups of teachers & other employees of the Dept of Ed(understandably) from what I understand is that the idea of this man voicing his opinion was not why he was removed as principle but because he used the school name on his fb page.....his position & place of employment was displayed & I hear this is a big no no,,,,,,,,,,,,and they say "he should have known better"

    We indeed do have freedom of speech but we really have to be mindful not to involve anyone else & make it seem that they are of the same opinion(not saying he did)    But clearly,the school did not want to be associated with it's employee when he made the reference

     I'm with Pat,personally,if I were to say something & get fired for my beliefs,,,,then fire me     And I am not defending the school but I do understand how they may not approve,,,,,,,I would think they could hsave simply posted something themselves or asked the principle to do it,saying"this opinion is solely the individuals & not the school blah blah blah,",,,,,rather than fire the man

     I've heard ,many stories of people getting into trouble at their places of employment & even not being hired at a place because of something they said or some kind of photo on fb             crazy!                           With love-in Christ,Kwik

[Uncertain]

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/did-the-internet-kill-privacy/

Georgia teacher fired for a picture of her holding a glass of wine and a mug of beer while on vacation she put on her Facebook page.

Nothing illegal, nothing immoral, she was in no way representing the school. This was in 2011, in 2013 she lost her court case and is now appealing. Her freedom of speech allowed her to post this picture and to use a word found in the dictionary. It also carried with it the potential for consequences, which she found out. A consequence free world is a fantasy world.

[Guest shiloh357]

Nice try Uncertain, but you apparently fail to understand the difference between speech and conduct. Perhaps you should go learn the difference.  While free speech cannot be regulated, conduct can be regulated.  And in this case, her picture violated her agreement with the school.   She didn't get fired.   She resigned.   You will also note that the article clearly states that this was privacy case not a free speech case.   She wrongly assumed more privacy on her Facebook account than she had.

 

That  is again, different than what we have with the Florida case.   Pictures of you drinking and partying, making lurid gestures, women posting pics that reveal certain body parts, using profanity, and other things of that nature do not qualify as "speech."   For that reason prospective employers will look you up online before they hire you and they will look at your online conduct to determine if they want to hire you.   That's not a violation of freedom of speech.

 

In the Florida case, it just about a man who expressed his opinion and was wrongfully punished because his employer doesn't like his opinion.   There is world of difference between Payne case and the Florida case.