What is the difference in the rapture and the second coming?

[thereselittleflower]

Kan let me show you why it can't be a literal 1000 years:

 

 

In apocalyptic language, "a thousand years" is figurative for a very long time.  This is in keeping with the principals of interpreting apocalyptic language:

 

 

Interpretation guidelines.

As an example of interpretation methodology, let us examine some passages from the Revelation of John. While reading John’s Apocalypse we should keep in mind that,

 

(1) it was written to Christians who had been undergoing long-term persecution (at least two-generations) with no hope for change;

(2) it was written to give the author’s readers encouragement and purpose during this difficult time;

(3) it uses symbolism (containing a lot of common idioms and metaphors) to describe the attributes of the person/place/thing being described rather than simply naming the person/place/thing described.

 

This latter point becomes important as we look at the text. As one encounters images, think about what the symbolism might mean as applied to attributes of that which is described. Try to avoid attaching the symbols directly to the description. This is what makes the Revelation more of a challenge to read. We are not that familiar with how ancient Christians understood many of these symbols, though many are obvious. We are often left with the context of symbolic usage to formulate an explanation.

 

Not all symbolism is lost to us. For example, numerology is used extensively in the Revelation to describe attributes. When numbers are encountered, try to ascertain the symbolism that was used for these numbers in their time. Some common applications of numerology include:

 

3 ½: Half of 7, half of perfection, profound sin, incompletion.

6: Short of perfection, sin. 666: Sin, repeated three times. Complete and pure sin. No evidence of good. Complete depravity.

7: Perfection, completion of God’s task.

12: Complete, complete assembly of God’s design. (12 tribes, 12 disciples.)

40: Sufficient period of time for God to work His purpose for man.

144: 12 times 12, ultimate completion

1000: Largest known number. Used to signify an unimaginably large amount.

144,000: 144 times 1000. A vast and complete/sufficient number.

 

All Colors and literal objects are also used to symbolize attributes. For example:

 

White: Purity

Clear: Purity

Red: God’s redeeming act, Jesus' blood.

Crown: Authority over a domain or kingdom

Green: Mercy, hope.

Trumpet: A clear message.

Throne: A position of power.

Rainbow: God’s covenant.

Jerusalem: The Church, the Bride of Christ

New Jerusalem: The post-rapture, glorified Church

Cubit: A measure by man’s standard.19

 

 

http://www.biblicaltheology.com/Research/CarterJ08.pdf

 

 

The above link is quite an extensive treatment of the apocalyptic genre and writings in scripture.

 

 

The Book of Revelation was the first work to be called an apocalypse, and it exhibits the features that characterize such writings: A revelation from God concerning future events is delivered to a seer through an angelic or divine intermediary (in the case of Revelation, the intermediary is Jesus Christ and the seer is Saint John). The book also uses elaborate animal and numerological symbolism. Variations on these features are found in other apocalyptic writings—for example, the writings may describe many visions instead of only one; they may include specimens of other genres within them (for example, the epistle or the hymn, as in Revelation); and they may describe the destined events literally rather than figuratively.

 

http://autocww.colorado.edu/~flc/E64ContentFiles/SacredScriptures/ApocalypticWritings.htm

 

 

 

 

The Apocalypse: A Reading of the Revelation of John

 

Fourth, apocalyptic literature employs certain compositional techniques in its writing: for example, symbolism, numerology, formalized surface structure, and recapitulation.  Each needs attention if understanding is to be attained.

 

Apocalypses are written with a high level of symbolism.  Apocalyptic writings are addressed to the imagination.  Their intent is more to create an emotional impression than to give new informaiton.

 

 

The language of the apocalypses is not descriptive, referential newspaper language, but the expressive language of poetry, which uses symbols and imagery to articulate a sense or feeling about the world.  Their binding value does not lie in the pseudoinformation they provide about the cosmology or future history, but in their affirmation of a transcendent world. 11

 

 

...Failure to take the highly symbolic character of apocalyptic into account virtually guarantees a misreading of the text.

 

Revelation also reflects the symbolic use of numbers in antiquity. 12  The numer 1 conveys the idea of uniqueness  or indepence.  Number 2 stands for doubling of energy, strengthening, confirmation (Rev. 11:3).  Number 3 is a symbol for the divine (Rev. 1:4-5) or its counterfeit (rev. 16:13).  Number 4 is the cosmic number, derived from the four corners of the earth (Rev 7:1; 21:13).  The number 7 is the most sacred number.  It expresses completion, 4 (the earth) + 3 (the divine) (Rev. 1:11; 6:1; 8:6; 15:1).  To use seven of anything raises it above the level of the particular to the level of the general or universal.  ...  when 10 is multiplied by 10 the result indicates a great expanse of time (Rev 20:2).   In a document in which numbers are used extensively in this way, it is a misreading to take them otherwise.... The numbers in Revelation cannot be understood by assigning then real numerical value, not even as round numbers.  They are purely symbolic. 

 

The Apocalypse: A Reading of the Revelation of John, pg 5-7

 By Charles H. Talbert

 

Author:  https://www.baylor.edu/mediacommunications/news.php?action=story&story=50286

[Kan]

 

 

Littleflower,

 

You have made a great effort to try and show that the 1000 years is not literal, but figurative, or symbolic.

I don't doubt what you have found in the symbolism of the 1000 years, but can you just relax and stay on the ground with us?

 

Can we read the Bible in the plainest and most obvious sense first, as a child would?

 

What would a new comer or a child think this 1000 years means?

 

The answer is literally 1000 years.

 

You have made several points that could show it to be symbolic, but none of the points can be exclusive to a symbolic or figurative meaning, they can be symbolic or literal. 

So long as the literal stands it is best to leave it as that.

 

This does not mean that the 1000 years cannot be symbolic, because every literal thing can also be symbolic in truth. God has made the world with all its creations, like icons for spiritual truths, which all spell "I love you."

But if a literal thing stands on it's own, we should not try to dismiss it's connection to us either.

 

There is a danger of spiritualizing things away. And we all know that has been done with many literal doctrines.

 

A child or newcomer will look for the literal first, and learn the spiritual later, because the literal is the ground for the spiritual plant.

 

 

It would be so nice to be able to do that and not end up with a misreading of the text.     I used to do exactly what you suggest.   Then I learned about the apocalyptic genre and how one must approach that genre.  I could not approach Revelation with any intellectual honesty after learning this by going back to how I approached it before.

 

When we approach biblical interpretation, the first thing we must do is determine the genre.   Determining the genre is the first step, without which, we can end up going way off in left field.    In this case, since apocalyptic genre heavily uses symbolism, we must be very careful about taking anything in the way it is stated.    This is true for all numbers.  All numbers in apocalyptic genre are symbolic.     Understanding this is absolutely key to coming away from reading it with a correct understanding of what is read.

 

A child or newcomer would not be aware of the need to first determine the genre of a book or passage.      And there is no danger of spiritualizing away text that is intended to be read for its symbolic meaning rather than taking it at face value.

 

 

 

 

I agree, especially for Revelation, that reading it purely from a literal view, causes you to be lost, when the seals are introduced, and the whole book has, I am told, a structure which works by comparing the language, as a way of interpreting itself.

 

By no means a simple book, yet I felt as I first studied it at age 16, that it has literal points, like anchors to our reckoning, which allow us to have references to what we can pin point in an event or truth.

 

I am not fully aware of your views or understanding of an apocalyptic genre, which I know nothing of, but as I read Revelation beginning from a literal view, I had a strong picture of Christ among golden candlesticks holding seven stars, and from this, I was quickly introduced to the symbols in the texts. For example 1:20 "...the mystery of the..." As the angel explains.

 

So this book was full of mysteries, which I believed were somehow hidden in the text, it had to be unraveled for clues etc. I found that challenging and rewarding as a teenager.

So I don't doubt what you are saying, and I did not want to dismiss what you have found, but at the same time, I think, that to say the 1000 years are only symbolic, may be unnecessary, because there is no harm in thinking them to be literal, is there?

[thereselittleflower]

 

 

 

Littleflower,

 

You have made a great effort to try and show that the 1000 years is not literal, but figurative, or symbolic.

I don't doubt what you have found in the symbolism of the 1000 years, but can you just relax and stay on the ground with us?

 

Can we read the Bible in the plainest and most obvious sense first, as a child would?

 

What would a new comer or a child think this 1000 years means?

 

The answer is literally 1000 years.

 

You have made several points that could show it to be symbolic, but none of the points can be exclusive to a symbolic or figurative meaning, they can be symbolic or literal. 

So long as the literal stands it is best to leave it as that.

 

This does not mean that the 1000 years cannot be symbolic, because every literal thing can also be symbolic in truth. God has made the world with all its creations, like icons for spiritual truths, which all spell "I love you."

But if a literal thing stands on it's own, we should not try to dismiss it's connection to us either.

 

There is a danger of spiritualizing things away. And we all know that has been done with many literal doctrines.

 

A child or newcomer will look for the literal first, and learn the spiritual later, because the literal is the ground for the spiritual plant.

 

 

It would be so nice to be able to do that and not end up with a misreading of the text.     I used to do exactly what you suggest.   Then I learned about the apocalyptic genre and how one must approach that genre.  I could not approach Revelation with any intellectual honesty after learning this by going back to how I approached it before.

 

When we approach biblical interpretation, the first thing we must do is determine the genre.   Determining the genre is the first step, without which, we can end up going way off in left field.    In this case, since apocalyptic genre heavily uses symbolism, we must be very careful about taking anything in the way it is stated.    This is true for all numbers.  All numbers in apocalyptic genre are symbolic.     Understanding this is absolutely key to coming away from reading it with a correct understanding of what is read.

 

A child or newcomer would not be aware of the need to first determine the genre of a book or passage.      And there is no danger of spiritualizing away text that is intended to be read for its symbolic meaning rather than taking it at face value.

 

 

 

 

I agree, especially for Revelation, that reading it purely from a literal view, causes you to be lost, when the seals are introduced, and the whole book has, I am told, a structure which works by comparing the language, as a way of interpreting itself.

 

By no means a simple book, yet I felt as I first studied it at age 16, that it has literal points, like anchors to our reckoning, which allow us to have references to what we can pin point in an event or truth.

 

I am not fully aware of your views or understanding of an apocalyptic genre, which I know nothing of, but as I read Revelation beginning from a literal view, I had a strong picture of Christ among golden candlesticks holding seven stars, and from this, I was quickly introduced to the symbols in the texts. For example 1:20 "...the mystery of the..." As the angel explains.

 

So this book was full of mysteries, which I believed were somehow hidden in the text, it had to be unraveled for clues etc. I found that challenging and rewarding as a teenager.

So I don't doubt what you are saying, and I did not want to dismiss what you have found, but at the same time, I think, that to say the 1000 years are only symbolic, may be unnecessary, because there is no harm in thinking them to be literal, is there?

 

 

 

I have to disagree with you on the issue of seals as anchors for literal understanding.  I'm sorry.   And honestly, I did the same thing when I was a teenager, and experienced the same as you.   I really do understand what you are saying from on an experiential level.   I found great excitement and joy in reading Revelation and seeing it the way you do.   

 

But I was wrong in my approach and its result.

 

The points you are using as anchors for literal understanding are not the anchors you seek.  The seals are symbolic as well.  The imagery is symbolic.  The numbers are symbolic.   I hope you take time to read through the links I posted above.  I think you will find them most interesting and helpful.

[Kan]

Kan let me show you why it can't be a literal 1000 years:

 

 

In apocalyptic language, "a thousand years" is figurative for a very long time.  This is in keeping with the principals of interpreting apocalyptic language:

 

 

Interpretation guidelines.

As an example of interpretation methodology, let us examine some passages from the Revelation of John. While reading John’s Apocalypse we should keep in mind that,

 

(1) it was written to Christians who had been undergoing long-term persecution (at least two-generations) with no hope for change;

(2) it was written to give the author’s readers encouragement and purpose during this difficult time;

(3) it uses symbolism (containing a lot of common idioms and metaphors) to describe the attributes of the person/place/thing being described rather than simply naming the person/place/thing described.

 

This latter point becomes important as we look at the text. As one encounters images, think about what the symbolism might mean as applied to attributes of that which is described. Try to avoid attaching the symbols directly to the description. This is what makes the Revelation more of a challenge to read. We are not that familiar with how ancient Christians understood many of these symbols, though many are obvious. We are often left with the context of symbolic usage to formulate an explanation.

 

Not all symbolism is lost to us. For example, numerology is used extensively in the Revelation to describe attributes. When numbers are encountered, try to ascertain the symbolism that was used for these numbers in their time. Some common applications of numerology include:

 

3 ½: Half of 7, half of perfection, profound sin, incompletion.

6: Short of perfection, sin. 666: Sin, repeated three times. Complete and pure sin. No evidence of good. Complete depravity.

7: Perfection, completion of God’s task.

12: Complete, complete assembly of God’s design. (12 tribes, 12 disciples.)

40: Sufficient period of time for God to work His purpose for man.

144: 12 times 12, ultimate completion

1000: Largest known number. Used to signify an unimaginably large amount.

144,000: 144 times 1000. A vast and complete/sufficient number.

 

All Colors and literal objects are also used to symbolize attributes. For example:

 

White: Purity

Clear: Purity

Red: God’s redeeming act, Jesus' blood.

Crown: Authority over a domain or kingdom

Green: Mercy, hope.

Trumpet: A clear message.

Throne: A position of power.

Rainbow: God’s covenant.

Jerusalem: The Church, the Bride of Christ

New Jerusalem: The post-rapture, glorified Church

Cubit: A measure by man’s standard.19

 

 

http://www.biblicaltheology.com/Research/CarterJ08.pdf

 

 

The above link is quite an extensive treatment of the apocalyptic genre and writings in scripture.

 

 

The Book of Revelation was the first work to be called an apocalypse, and it exhibits the features that characterize such writings: A revelation from God concerning future events is delivered to a seer through an angelic or divine intermediary (in the case of Revelation, the intermediary is Jesus Christ and the seer is Saint John). The book also uses elaborate animal and numerological symbolism. Variations on these features are found in other apocalyptic writings—for example, the writings may describe many visions instead of only one; they may include specimens of other genres within them (for example, the epistle or the hymn, as in Revelation); and they may describe the destined events literally rather than figuratively.

 

http://autocww.colorado.edu/~flc/E64ContentFiles/SacredScriptures/ApocalypticWritings.htm

 

 

 

 

The Apocalypse: A Reading of the Revelation of John

 

Fourth, apocalyptic literature employs certain compositional techniques in its writing: for example, symbolism, numerology, formalized surface structure, and recapitulation.  Each needs attention if understanding is to be attained.

 

Apocalypses are written with a high level of symbolism.  Apocalyptic writings are addressed to the imagination.  Their intent is more to create an emotional impression than to give new informaiton.

 

 

The language of the apocalypses is not descriptive, referential newspaper language, but the expressive language of poetry, which uses symbols and imagery to articulate a sense or feeling about the world.  Their binding value does not lie in the pseudoinformation they provide about the cosmology or future history, but in their affirmation of a transcendent world. 11

 

 

...Failure to take the highly symbolic character of apocalyptic into account virtually guarantees a misreading of the text.

 

Revelation also reflects the symbolic use of numbers in antiquity. 12  The numer 1 conveys the idea of uniqueness  or indepence.  Number 2 stands for doubling of energy, strengthening, confirmation (Rev. 11:3).  Number 3 is a symbol for the divine (Rev. 1:4-5) or its counterfeit (rev. 16:13).  Number 4 is the cosmic number, derived from the four corners of the earth (Rev 7:1; 21:13).  The number 7 is the most sacred number.  It expresses completion, 4 (the earth) + 3 (the divine) (Rev. 1:11; 6:1; 8:6; 15:1).  To use seven of anything raises it above the level of the particular to the level of the general or universal.  ...  when 10 is multiplied by 10 the result indicates a great expanse of time (Rev 20:2).   In a document in which numbers are used extensively in this way, it is a misreading to take them otherwise.... The numbers in Revelation cannot be understood by assigning then real numerical value, not even as round numbers.  They are purely symbolic. 

 

The Apocalypse: A Reading of the Revelation of John, pg 5-7

 By Charles H. Talbert

 

Author:  https://www.baylor.edu/mediacommunications/news.php?action=story&story=50286

 

I like the way you have set that all out for the readers.

 

I am aware of the fact that the symbols, language, numbers and imagery are designed by God to teach and fortify the subconscious.

And I am convinced that the subconscious will reveal at the right time what those symbols represent in the visual and tangible world.

And that the world does have a specific history traced by the pen of inspiration, which predicts the future with accuracy.

 

Yet the whole aim of prophecy is not to know the future, but to have proof of Christ's leading now and after.

 

I do not believe that the multiplicity of interpretations circulated in the religious world represent the messages of Revelation, because they are so conflicting and contradicting, and that first there must be a reformation in our relation to God, which would begin by knowing what the scriptures teach, by being familiar with the imagery, language and symbols in there.

 

So thanks for making it easier, by your organized approach.

[Kan]

By the way, about the symbolism of the seals, don't you agree that they are symbolic of real things that concern us or this world?

[Sister]

In apocalyptic language, "a thousand years" is figurative for a very long time.  This is in keeping with the principals of interpreting apocalyptic language:

 

 

Interpretation guidelines.

As an example of interpretation methodology, let us examine some passages from the Revelation of John. While reading John’s Apocalypse we should keep in mind that,

 

(1) it was written to Christians who had been undergoing long-term persecution (at least two-generations) with no hope for change;

(2) it was written to give the author’s readers encouragement and purpose during this difficult time;

(3) it uses symbolism (containing a lot of common idioms and metaphors) to describe the attributes of the person/place/thing being described rather than simply naming the person/place/thing described.

 

Hi terese

 

Let me show you interpretation guidelines according to what Christ has to say;

 

1.  John 6:65   And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

    John 6:44   No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

 

(Must be drawn by Christ.  No man can enter by the backdoor.  No all men are drawn, because wolves have come in, so not all have been given the ability to "interpret", no matter how clever or learned they are.)

 

 

 

2.  John 6:27   Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.

 

(Only those that have been sealed will be fed this meat, spiritual food from Christ which gives understanding, therefore able to interpret)

 

 

 

3.  Hebrews 5:12   For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.

 

Hebrews 5:14   But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

 

(many are trying to be teachers, but have not been weaned off the milk yet.  There is something in their foundations which is not right, therefore they cannot move on to solids, so the understanding of prophecy is not given to them, because the prophecies are in "the strong meat")

 

 

 

4.   Revelation 19:10   And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

 

(The spirit of prophecy is only given to those who have the testimony of Jesus)

 

 

5.  John 16:13   Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

 

(Must have the spirit of truth.  It can only come from Christ.)

 

Now this is not to put you down Sister.  I believe you are genuine in your walk.  But go back and retrace your steps.  You said you understood the scriptures in a different way when you first read.  What changed that? Who hindered you?  Don't you remember the parable of the seed, how it falls in different places because the wicked one comes and takes away which was first sown in his heart?  Where did you go for truth? You started in the scriptures, you thought you understood and you were probably being fed, but did you then start reading "books" or looking things up on the "internet"?  did you follow someone else's interpretation or go to  a church which gave you their teaching?  If so, then you have strayed away from Christ's flesh which is the spirit of his Word recorded in print throughout the whole bible.

 

Your methods of interpretation are according to your own opinions, and cannot be handled the way a carnal man would look at a text book and try to make sense of it.  Did not God say this;

  Isaiah 28:13   But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

 

You will not find the whole understanding and the plan of God in the book of Rev alone.  It will be hazy.  We have to go now and read the OT prophesies, and only then can you understand what the whole plan of God is. The treasures are hidden in there, but you have to search deep.  Don't only scratch the surface but go through all the layers until you find the gold.

 

The old and new testaments harmonise.  They back each other up.  They tell the same story.

There is a first dominion coming.  The dominion of Christ ruling.  This world and new system, completely opposite to what we have now has not yet been shown to you, because you have not picked up a little bit here and a little bit there, line upon line, and precept upon precept.  This is where you will fall over backwards and be snared and taken.  This is where the truth will be kept from you, but God doesn't want that for you. He wants to lead you to truth, so he sends you here to stir up, but in turn you are going to be the one stirred!

 

I am willing to give you many many scriptures, and only if the Lamb reveals it to you, it will be given.

 

Deep knowledge and understanding of prophecies is a gift given from Christ, because he can see on the inside, if the heart is really seeking truth, and if that heart is putting him first before everything.  This can only come from Christ, and the methods used in understanding prophecy is go to the whole book, Old and New testaments, and put all the pieces together so that a picture can emerge.  If you can see this picture clearly, then the kingdom has been already given to you, because not everyone gets to see this, hence why we have all these different doctrines and Christians arguing with each other.  Eat the flesh of Christ.  His flesh is his spirit, and his spirit is in the words of the whole bible given to us in print so that we can soak it in and it become a part of us.  This is what teaches us true doctrine and this is the food we should be eating.

 

God bless.

[Serving]

L.flower

 

 

In apocalyptic language, "a thousand years" is figurative for a very long time.  This is in keeping with the principals of interpreting apocalyptic language:

 

 

Yes "a very long time" is indeed  figurative, luckily we have the literal time given in the scriptures to explain the figurative, the literal 1000 years . the above approach is called circular reasoning.

 

BTW.. the 1000 years is only mentioned ONCE (the ONE subject it pertains to that is) .. thank God He gave us the explanation in the seal so we don't have to "imagine" what kind of literal time He means, 1 million anybody .. do I hear 1.2 .. 1.4 .. 2 million years anybody .. aaaand sold .. to the man who doesn't believe in literal time .. there you go sir.

 

L.flower, does the author understand that the scriptures only used (as far as I can remember off the top of my head) one instance of a "figurative" time allotment ONLY to explain WHY it was figurative & then go on to EXPLAIN the LITERAL time span God really meant?

 

One figurative example in the scriptures which was EXPLAINED in the literal passing of time v's the rest .. the literal spans !! Hmm ..

 

Doesn't that tell you anything?

 

 

Interpretation guidelines.

As an example of interpretation methodology,

 

I am sorry .. but whose rules are these? And whence came this authority over the scriptures own explanations?

 

 

let us examine some passages from the Revelation of John. While reading John’s Apocalypse we should keep in mind that,

 

(1) it was written to Christians who had been undergoing long-term persecution (at least two-generations) with no hope for change;

 

STOP .. wrong.

 

The book of revelations was written for the end times generations, Paul even told those he preached to that the coming of Christ was not "soon" but a long time off ..and since the book of revelations deals mainly with the lead up to that event, it can hardly be considered "written for them" .. not only that, the book of revelations speaks of an ongoing Christian persecution, hardly a counter to the "no hope for change" claim.

 

Lets see .. revelations deals with persecutions, deceptions, death, plagues, wars, catastrophies, warnings, vengeance, wrath, false prophets, false miracles, did I mention DEATH & PERSECUTIONS etc etc etc interspersed with small glimpses of salvation .. hmm .. doesn't quite fit does it?

 

 

(2) it was written to give the author’s readers encouragement and purpose during this difficult time;

 

 

Revelation 10:11 And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings.

 

Hmm .. even the scriptures seem to be breaking this author's rules .. "naughty scriptures .. naughty"

 

 

(3) it uses symbolism (containing a lot of common idioms and metaphors) to describe the attributes of the person/place/thing being described rather than simply naming the person/place/thing described.
 

 

Ah I see .. when one uses the scriptures OWN explanations for it's symbolism .. EVERY SYMBOL .. it is .. well .. WRONG .. but when this author does .. hmm .. can you smell roses? 

 

Stick to the Source L.flower.

 

Take note here .. the author ADMITS that idioms & metaphors relate to LITERAL things/places/persons .. NOTED .. except when we use the bibles explanations of course !!

 

 

This latter point becomes important as we look at the text. As one encounters images, think about what the symbolism might mean as applied to attributes of that which is described. Try to avoid attaching the symbols directly to the description. This is what makes the Revelation more of a challenge to read. We are not that familiar with how ancient Christians understood many of these symbols, though many are obvious. We are often left with the context of symbolic usage to formulate an explanation.

 

No need to "think about what they MIGHT mean" when scripture ALWAYS explains them for us elsewhere in it's pages .. if we are not lazy, we WILL find them .. knock & it will be opened L.flower .. no need to use the back door, it never works.

 

Most ancient Christians couldn't even READ L.flower .. so the author should stop using broad statements that are deceptive .. it wasn't till the 1600's when most Christians COULD read that the bible came available to ALL .. I think God would have known this L.flower and wrote His word with that in mind ..

 

BTW .. dó you realise that MOST of the words in the 1611 KJV are STILL used today in varying fields / circumstances (though some very rarely) .. like over 90% of them !! Let alone our DICTIONARIES at hand !! 

 

That author makes a deceptive case.

 

 

Not all symbolism is lost to us.

 

Huh?

 

Did not God PROMISE to preserve His written word unto ALL generations !!!

 

That statement contradicts God Himself .. L.flower, you are being deceived by the appearance of wisdom which is really but folly dear sister .. forsake this book for your own salvation's sake ..

 

So where is this man leading you to next?

 

 

For example, numerology is used extensively in the Revelation to describe attributes. When numbers are encountered, try to ascertain the symbolism that was used for these numbers in their time. Some common applications of numerology include:

3 ½: Half of 7, half of perfection, profound sin, incompletion.

6: Short of perfection, sin. 666: Sin, repeated three times. Complete and pure sin. No evidence of good. Complete depravity.

7: Perfection, completion of God’s task.

12: Complete, complete assembly of God’s design. (12 tribes, 12 disciples.)

40: Sufficient period of time for God to work His purpose for man.

144: 12 times 12, ultimate completion

1000: Largest known number. Used to signify an unimaginably large amount.

144,000: 144 times 1000. A vast and complete/sufficient number.

 

 

STOOOOOOOOOOPPPPPPPP .. numerology is of the OCCULT !! It has no place being anywhere near the HOLY BIBLE or IN it. 

 

So this is where he is leading YOU .. there is always a catch !!

 

remember when God said count the number of his name .. He was speaking about counting the number of LETTERS in that mans name which is MATH not OCCULTIC numerology ..

 

LOOK : First name _ _ _ _ _ _ = 6 letters (math) Middle name _ _ _ _ _ _ = 6 letters (math) Last name _ _ _ _ _ _ = 6 letters (math)

 

Did you know that the man who invented the barcode had 6 letters in his first name & 6 letters in his middle name & 6 letters in his last name?

 

Did you know that even microchips HAVE barcodes stamped onto them (very small but there nonetheless) & so do RFID chips?

 

No, he is deceiving you, throw that book away & stick to the Source .. you are feeding on strange flesh L.flower & not on the Lord's.

 

 

All Colors and literal objects are also used to symbolize attributes. For example:

 

White: Purity

Clear: Purity

Red: God’s redeeming act, Jesus' blood.

Crown: Authority over a domain or kingdom

Green: Mercy, hope.

Trumpet: A clear message.

Throne: A position of power.

Rainbow: God’s covenant.

Jerusalem: The Church, the Bride of Christ

New Jerusalem: The post-rapture, glorified Church

Cubit: A measure by man’s standard.19

 

Typical new age spiritualism .. mix a tiny bit of truth with a lot of falsities and kazaam ..

 

NOTE : the author again admits that symbolism represents LITERAL objects / things .. but only under his guidelines of course, forget that the bible gives it's own explanations !!

 

Look, the rest isn't even worth debating, it is nonsensical & non biblical because it declares one must understand IT before being able to understand the BIBLE ITSELF !!.

 

My question would be, what of all the millions & millions of Christians who "missed out" on this so called "necessary tool" for understanding the bible? Should we ring up God & complain at His neglectful oversight?

 

L.flower, numerology is OCCULTIC .. that is where this charlatan is taking you, into Satan's sand pit .. I bear witness against him & will pray for YOU. 

 

Thank you.

Edited July 20, 2015 by Serving

[Littlelambseativy]

Little flower, would you use the term "style" for genre in discussing the writing style as genre is mostly used for describing painting....small but picky point. I am not certain if you mean style or time period.

[Sister]

Serving

 

I just read your post to terese.  Looks like we are speaking the same language!

You picked up some things I didn't, and now the plot thickens.

[Serving]

Serving

 

I just read your post to terese.  Looks like we are speaking the same language!

You picked up some things I didn't, and now the plot thickens.

Haha,

 

I just read your reply & thought the same thing .. we are speaking the same language .. and not just on this post either .. & you said some things I didn't consider using either !!

 

Hmmmm ..

Edited July 20, 2015 by Serving