4 prophecies & 2 mysteries in just 2 verses !!

[Openly Curious]

Hi Serving,

 

Some interesting thoughts there bro. I agree with some & not others. But, hey, we are on a journey in the Lord & He will guide us by His Spirit into all the truth.

 

`And when one comes to realize this Zion & what God means, all one needs do thereafter is learn to discern between physical Zion & heavenly Zion within the scriptures. For there is an earthly city called Zion .. Mt Zion in Israel as everybody no doubt has read in the scriptures & an heavenly Zion which is the City of the Living God which is in heaven where dwells an innumerable host of angels.

 

Just a few thoughts here serving. You will note in Hebrews 12 -

 

`But you have come to Mount Zion AND to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, to the general assembly & church of the first-born who are registered in heaven, to God the judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect, to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, ...` (Heb. 12: 22 - 24) 

 

 

This is in the heavenly realm as you so rightly said. However did you realise that Mount Zion is the place of the throne of God, (on earth, king David) while the city is below that area. The two are separate. This is an important point. Will let you look that up & think upon it.

 

Marilyn.

Something else for you to think upon concerning the scriptural passage in Hebrews 12:22-24.

"But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem"..... This is "NOT" speaking of two seperate places but one. Instead Mount Zion is the literal "name" of where the city of the living God is located. The city of the living God is located in Mount Zion and that city is called the heavenly Jerusalem. The word "AND" in the scriptural passage does not create two seperate places but one and the same.

Mount Zion is the highest point in ancient Jerusalem which is the throne of God in which the heavenly city will descend from heaven and be set on earth at for the 1000 years of Christ rule and reign (government) on earth.

[Serving]

Hi Sister M,

 

 

Some interesting thoughts there bro.

 

Thank you M,

 

 

I agree with some & not others. But, hey, we are on a journey in the Lord & He will guide us by His Spirit into all the truth.

 

Yes that's right M, it is "line upon line, line upon line" .. after all

 

 

Serving : `And when one comes to realize this Zion & what God means, all one needs do thereafter is learn to discern between physical Zion & heavenly Zion within the scriptures. For there is an earthly city called Zion .. Mt Zion in Israel as everybody no doubt has read in the scriptures & an heavenly Zion which is the City of the Living God which is in heaven where dwells an innumerable host of angels.

Marilyn : Just a few thoughts here serving. You will note in Hebrews 12 -

 

`But you have come to Mount Zion AND to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, to the general assembly & church of the first-born who are registered in heaven, to God the judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect, to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, ...` (Heb. 12: 22 - 24)

 

This is in the heavenly realm as you so rightly said. However did you realise that Mount Zion is the place of the throne of God, (on earth, king David) while the city is below that area. The two are separate. This is an important point. Will let you look that up & think upon it. This is in the heavenly realm as you so rightly said. However did you realise that Mount Zion is the place of the throne of God, (on earth, king David) while the city is below that area. The two are separate. This is an important point. Will let you look that up & think upon it.

 

Yes I did M .. and I know exactly what you are seeing in that scripture to make you say that (besides your pointing it out  ) because I too had to scrutinize it to make sure of the interpretation some time ago now too .. actually not so much that one, but other trickier ones .. or, better said, ones that needed extra careful consideration by knowing .. well .. all of them,  until eventually .. a mental picture formed and then one day .. it just happened .. they all became easy to discern.

 

So there is no need to be suspicious of the term "Mount" when it comes before "Zion" sister M (yes.. my personal experience too I admit) .. because that nasty little "Mt" can easily get one picturing the physical Mt. Zion only instead of the spiritual Mt. Zion, even though the physical Mt Zion is mentioned way way more, there is still a spirit Mt Zion which is, basically .. God's heavenly City .. where He dwells in heaven.

 

Like this one I'll use as an example .. one has to "see" these with their "spiritual eyes" to spot the subtly "masked" & true meaning .. I'll walk you through it ..   

 

Isaiah 8:18 Behold, I and the children whom the LORD hath given me are for signs and for wonders in Israel from the LORD of hosts, which dwelleth in mount Zion.

 

Yes this is Isaiah prophesying, but the real speaker is The Word Himself .. look closer .. don't forget .. the Word is speaking about Himself through Isaiah :

 

 

1 > Behold, I and the children whom the LORD hath given me

 

 

The Lord gave no "children" as it were, to Isaiah, but He did give to Christ (The Word) .. but first one must :

 

Matthew 18:3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

 

Those children .. who are also these :

 

Mark 10:24 And the disciples were astonished at his words. But Jesus answereth again, and saith unto them, Children, how hard is it for them that trust in riches to enter into the kingdom of God!

 

Who are ALL together  these :

 

Luke 1:17 And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.

 

(There is actually a mystery in the one above  ) 

 

 

 2 >  (Behold, I and the children whom the LORD hath given me)   are for signs and for wonders in Israel

 

(a) "I" .. This One :

 

Acts 2:22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:

 

(b) and the children doing the signs & wonders :

 

Acts 2:43 And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles.

 

And not forgetting these ones too : 

 

John 20:30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:

 

 

3 > from the LORD of hosts

 

Since the Word is speaking .. then we should realize Who This Is that is being spoken of .. The Father Himself.

 

4 > which dwelleth in mount Zion.

 

When reading the history of all the good kings & evil kings, be it independent Israel or captive Israel .. God only ever "dwelt" in Mt Zion when they (kings) were :  a) good  &  b) Israel was independent (not in captivity or in homage as they were during Christ's day) .. knowing this, discernment becomes .. well .. simple .. thus this Mt Zion actually means heaven .. which metaphorically is God's throne .. really speaking about God's literal heavenly City .. 

 

And since Israel were under homage (when that above Isaiah 8:18 example finally came to pass during Christ's days), .. again .. under homage, which only ever happened when God did not "dwell" there, well we can safely discern that this Mt Zion (Isaiah 8:18 that I quoted) is indeed the literal & heavenly one .. just like the Hebrews one you quoted to me in your example in the quote box.

  

So that pesky little "Mount" .. before "Mt" Zion ..isn't so pesky after all .. see?

 

So sister M .. look now at Hebrews 12:18 which was leading up to the Hebrews verse you quoted .. you have to look through your own understanding of the whole subject and even understand all the seemingly "trivial" passing statements / comments easily missed, to notice something in that verse which even more so backs what I say than the example above .. but it is extremely subtle ..  yet once revealed .. easily "seen" likewise.

 

Mull on that as long as you like M .. as you said, "But, hey, we are on a journey in the Lord & He will guide us by His Spirit into all the truth."

  

God bless.

Edited July 19, 2015 by Serving

[Sister]

Mount = kingdom (in many verses re prophesy)

 

examples;

Revelation 17:9   And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

The whore is sitting on seven mountains (7 kingdoms)

 

Daniel 2:45   Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure.

The stone is Christ, and the mountain of which it was out  of (without hands)   is "the kingdom of God."

 

 Micah 4:1   But in the last days it shall come to pass, that the mountain of the house of the LORD shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it.

 

Micah 6:1   Hear ye now what the LORD saith; Arise, contend thou before the mountains, and let the hills hear thy voice.

Mountains = kingdoms

hills = small kingdoms

 

Mt Zion = "Kingdom" of God ....which is called Zion for short.

 

What makes Mt Zion so special is the laws which come out of her, ...this is what brings peace, ....God's laws.

 

 

....and sometimes a mountain will mean just what it is.... a mountain!, so discernment is needed.

 

 

[Marilyn C]

Hi Serving,

 

Some interesting thoughts there bro. I agree with some & not others. But, hey, we are on a journey in the Lord & He will guide us by His Spirit into all the truth.

`And when one comes to realize this Zion & what God means, all one needs do thereafter is learn to discern between physical Zion & heavenly Zion within the scriptures. For there is an earthly city called Zion .. Mt Zion in Israel as everybody no doubt has read in the scriptures & an heavenly Zion which is the City of the Living God which is in heaven where dwells an innumerable host of angels.

 

Just a few thoughts here serving. You will note in Hebrews 12 -

 

`But you have come to Mount Zion AND to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, to the general assembly & church of the first-born who are registered in heaven, to God the judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect, to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, ...` (Heb. 12: 22 - 24) 

 

 

This is in the heavenly realm as you so rightly said. However did you realise that Mount Zion is the place of the throne of God, (on earth, king David) while the city is below that area. The two are separate. This is an important point. Will let you look that up & think upon it.

 

Marilyn.

Something else for you to think upon concerning the scriptural passage in Hebrews 12:22-24.

"But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem"..... This is "NOT" speaking of two seperate places but one. Instead Mount Zion is the literal "name" of where the city of the living God is located. The city of the living God is located in Mount Zion and that city is called the heavenly Jerusalem. The word "AND" in the scriptural passage does not create two seperate places but one and the same.

Mount Zion is the highest point in ancient Jerusalem which is the throne of God in which the heavenly city will descend from heaven and be set on earth at for the 1000 years of Christ rule and reign (government) on earth.

Hi Openly Curious,

 

Yes, we agree that Mount Zion in heaven is the throne of God, however as we can see from God`s word the heavenly city, the New Jerusalem descends from there.

 

`Then I, John, saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, COMING DOWN OUT OF HEAVEN ....` (Rev. 21: 2)

 

So I see them as two distinct places - God`s throne & the city.

 

 

Marilyn.

Edited July 19, 2015 by Marilyn C

[Serving]

Mount = kingdom (in many verses re prophesy)

 

examples;

Revelation 17:9   And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

The whore is sitting on seven mountains (7 kingdoms)

 

Daniel 2:45   Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure.

The stone is Christ, and the mountain of which it was out  of (without hands)   is "the kingdom of God."

 

 Micah 4:1   But in the last days it shall come to pass, that the mountain of the house of the LORD shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it.

 

Micah 6:1   Hear ye now what the LORD saith; Arise, contend thou before the mountains, and let the hills hear thy voice.

Mountains = kingdoms

hills = small kingdoms

 

Mt Zion = "Kingdom" of God ....which is called Zion for short.

 

What makes Mt Zion so special is the laws which come out of her, ...this is what brings peace, ....God's laws.

 

 

....and sometimes a mountain will mean just what it is.... a mountain!, so discernment is needed.

 

Hi Sister,

 

I was going to use the mount = kingdom analogy but since the earthly Mt & heavenly are both  kingdoms, I decided to try a different angle   .. but nice discernment Sister S.

 

God bless.

[Serving]

 

 

Hi Serving,

 

Some interesting thoughts there bro. I agree with some & not others. But, hey, we are on a journey in the Lord & He will guide us by His Spirit into all the truth.

 

`And when one comes to realize this Zion & what God means, all one needs do thereafter is learn to discern between physical Zion & heavenly Zion within the scriptures. For there is an earthly city called Zion .. Mt Zion in Israel as everybody no doubt has read in the scriptures & an heavenly Zion which is the City of the Living God which is in heaven where dwells an innumerable host of angels.

 

Just a few thoughts here serving. You will note in Hebrews 12 -

 

`But you have come to Mount Zion AND to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, to the general assembly & church of the first-born who are registered in heaven, to God the judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect, to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, ...` (Heb. 12: 22 - 24) 

 

 

This is in the heavenly realm as you so rightly said. However did you realise that Mount Zion is the place of the throne of God, (on earth, king David) while the city is below that area. The two are separate. This is an important point. Will let you look that up & think upon it.

 

Marilyn.

 

Something else for you to think upon concerning the scriptural passage in Hebrews 12:22-24.

"But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem"..... This is "NOT" speaking of two seperate places but one. Instead Mount Zion is the literal "name" of where the city of the living God is located. The city of the living God is located in Mount Zion and that city is called the heavenly Jerusalem. The word "AND" in the scriptural passage does not create two seperate places but one and the same.

Mount Zion is the highest point in ancient Jerusalem which is the throne of God in which the heavenly city will descend from heaven and be set on earth at for the 1000 years of Christ rule and reign (government) on earth.

 

Hi Openly Curious,

 

Yes, we agree that Mount Zion in heaven is the throne of God, however as we can see from God`s word the heavenly city, the New Jerusalem descends from there.

 

`Then I, John, saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, COMING DOWN OUT OF HEAVEN ....` (Rev. 21: 2)

 

So I see them as two distinct places - God`s throne & the city.

 

 

Marilyn.

 

 

 

Hey sister M .. The only difference between you & I on this subject I suppose is to do with exactly "what" the "city" is that's coming down .. and I agree with you M, it is coming from heaven so it is not heaven itself , but comes from there ..

 

Pretty sure you know what my view on that "city" is right?

 

But, you know what, I want to hear your view so we can understand each other better.

 

So can I ask you M .. how do you "see" this city in your own mind & how do you perceive it's function .. as in, is it for shelter for resurrected saints or is it for the human Israelites or both for example? .. so I guess I am asking how you see it's function / purpose? and what it is made of for example ..

 

Thanks M,

 

Look forward to your views.

[Marilyn C]

Hi Serving,
 
You don`t go half measures, do you?  What a huge question & I would love to lay it all out but that would take pages. Any way I`ll give you the short overview & we can go from there. And thank you for saying `so we can understand each other better.` Now how gracious is that. We may not agree as yet, but it`s a journey & the Lord is right by our side guiding us.

 

Pretty sure you know what my view on that "city" is right?

But, you know what, I want to hear your view so we can understand each other better.

So can I ask you M .. how do you "see" this city in your own mind & how do you perceive it's function .. as in, is it for shelter for resurrected saints or is it for the human Israelites or both for example? .. so I guess I am asking how you see it's function / purpose? and what it is made of for example ..

I `see` the city as an authority area in the lower heavens realm. It is made of substance from heaven, so nothing physical from earth. We are told that the spirits of just men (& women) of Hebrews 11 looked for a city whose builder & maker is God. Thus I believe they will be the ones who will rule over the earth from there. The function of the wonderful city is to be the interlocking connection between the physical & spiritual realms.

 

Marilyn.

[Serving]

 

Hi Serving,

 

You don`t go half measures, do you?  What a huge question & I would love to lay it all out but that would take pages. Any way I`ll give you the short overview & we can go from there. And thank you for saying `so we can understand each other better.` Now how gracious is that. We may not agree as yet, but it`s a journey & the Lord is right by our side guiding us.

 

Pretty sure you know what my view on that "city" is right?

But, you know what, I want to hear your view so we can understand each other better.

So can I ask you M .. how do you "see" this city in your own mind & how do you perceive it's function .. as in, is it for shelter for resurrected saints or is it for the human Israelites or both for example? .. so I guess I am asking how you see it's function / purpose? and what it is made of for example ..

I `see` the city as an authority area in the lower heavens realm. It is made of substance from heaven, so nothing physical from earth. We are told that the spirits of just men (& women) of Hebrews 11 looked for a city whose builder & maker is God. Thus I believe they will be the ones who will rule over the earth from there. The function of the wonderful city is to be the interlocking connection between the physical & spiritual realms.

 

Marilyn.

 

Lol .. well .. sometimes we can forget to "hear" the other person which I am guilty of at times .. just want to make sure I understand you & your position .. I will ask questions too since I wont be able to hear you unless my questions are satisfied .. but I will "grill you" at the same time sis  

 

BTW, I agree with what you said about Hebrews .. the city they await .. we just see an aspect of it differently is all .. anyways .. some questions 4u .. please feel free to use your own words to describe your understanding .. 

 

When this city comes down from where it is now ..

 

1> does that mean there will be a new "vacant land mass" where it once stood?

 

2> Will something else take it's place?

 

3> Was it empty all this time?

 

& if not,

 

4> do the former occupants come too?

 

5> what was it's authorative function in heaven &

 

6> who or what will take over that function when it leaves heaven?

 

& 7> what fills that "authority role" when it is no longer in heaven .. or was it "temporary"?

 

 

Oh, and the "interlocking connection" .. was there no connection before this city came down? .. & if so .. what was wrong with the last "interlocking connection"? .. what has changed?

 

Fair questions hey sister M .. 

 

Blessings.

[Marilyn C]

Hi Serving,
 

 

Hi Serving,

You don`t go half measures, do you? What a huge question & I would love to lay it all out but that would take pages. Any way I`ll give you the short overview & we can go from there. And thank you for saying `so we can understand each other better.` Now how gracious is that. We may not agree as yet, but it`s a journey & the Lord is right by our side guiding us.

Pretty sure you know what my view on that "city" is right?

But, you know what, I want to hear your view so we can understand each other better.

So can I ask you M .. how do you "see" this city in your own mind & how do you perceive it's function .. as in, is it for shelter for resurrected saints or is it for the human Israelites or both for example? .. so I guess I am asking how you see it's function / purpose? and what it is made of for example ..

I `see` the city as an authority area in the lower heavens realm. It is made of substance from heaven, so nothing physical from earth. We are told that the spirits of just men (& women) of Hebrews 11 looked for a city whose builder & maker is God. Thus I believe they will be the ones who will rule over the earth from there. The function of the wonderful city is to be the interlocking connection between the physical & spiritual realms.

Marilyn.

 

Lol .. well .. sometimes we can forget to "hear" the other person which I am guilty of at times .. just want to make sure I understand you & your position .. I will ask questions too since I wont be able to hear you unless my questions are satisfied .. but I will "grill you" at the same time sis


BTW, I agree with what you said about Hebrews .. the city they await .. we just see an aspect of it differently is all .. anyways .. some questions 4u .. please feel free to use your own words to describe your understanding ..

When this city comes down from where it is now ..

1> does that mean there will be a new "vacant land mass" where it once stood?

2> Will something else take it's place?

3> Was it empty all this time?

& if not,

4> do the former occupants come too?

5> what was it's authorative function in heaven &

6> who or what will take over that function when it leaves heaven?

& 7> what fills that "authority role" when it is no longer in heaven .. or was it "temporary"?


Oh, and the "interlocking connection" .. was there no connection before this city came down? .. & if so .. what was wrong with the last "interlocking connection"? .. what has changed?

Fair questions hey sister M ..

Blessings.

 

Hi Serving,

Wow, what great questions. Enough to keep us going for a month! (lol) But seriously, they are such great, thoughtful, insightful questions & I will have great delight in sharing what I have been taught over the years. I might just do a few at a time so we can discuss those, if that`s OK?
So let`s start with what God`s word tells us about these things.

`For by Him (Christ) all things were created that are in heaven & that are on earth, visible & invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him & for Him.` (Col. 1: 16)

So here we are told of invisible realms with authority – thrones & dominions, principalities & powers. And importantly, they were created FOR HIM, (CHRIST). Some of your questions are dealing with this invisible realm of the third heaven.
 

`1> does that mean there will be a new "vacant land mass" where it once stood?
2> Will something else take it's place?
3> Was it empty all this time?
& if not,
4> do the former occupants come too?`

So what do we know from God`s word of this realm – the third heaven. It is where God`s throne (seat of power) is. (Rev. 4: 2)

`Indeed heaven & the highest heavens belong to the Lord your God, also the earth with all that is in it.` (Deut. 10: 14)
`behold, a throne set in heaven,….` (Rev. 4: 2)
`And the Ancient of Days was seated; His garment was white as snow, & the hair of His head was like pure wool. His throne was a fiery flame,…..` (Dan. 7: 9)

Now who was there before, what authority & has it been empty?

We are told that Lucifer, was a kingpriest in that realm with a third of the angels in his order. This info is in the book of Isaiah & Ezekiel. Now one of the `laws ` of interpreting God`s word is the Law of Duplication or sometimes called the Law of double reference. In many scriptures, particularly in the Psalms, this Law of double reference is used.

Psalm 22 is a Psalm of David, & as we read it & become more familiar with our understanding of it, we find it is running a parallel with the sufferings of the Lord Jesus Christ. So that the language, which in the beginning speaks about David`s experiences, virtually is looking to another person, or is duplicated in another person – the Lord Jesus Christ. It is the Law of double reference.

When we look at Ezekiel 28 we can see this illustrated as well. The passage is referring to Lucifer (Satan), but it does not say that at the start.

`Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyre…` (Ez. 38: 2)

Now there was a prince of Tyre at that time; but he was never in Eden, the garden of God – but the shadowy figure who was inspiring the king of Tyre `was` in Eden, the garden of God.

`…take up a lamentation for the king of Tyre, …You were the seal of perfection, full of wisdom & perfect in beauty. You were in Eden, the garden of God; & every precious stone was your covering…` (Ez. 38: 12 & 13)

Then in Isaiah 14: 12 – 17, we read of more of Lucifer.

`I will exalt my throne above the stars of God; I will……` (Ez. 38: 13)

Thus we see that Lucifer was a king (throne) & a priest (precious stones on High Priests breastplate). However we know that he was cast from this exalted position – the highest angel above all others.

`By the abundance of your trading you became filled with violence within, & you sinned; therefore I cast you as a profane thing out of the mountain of God.` (Ez. 28: 16)

So Lucifer (Satan) is cast out of the third heaven, but his exalted position, his seat of authority which was made by Christ, was still there. Now the prophet Daniel was given insight here. Around the throne of the most high God, we see thrones are set up. However they are vacant, awaiting the worthy ones to ascend there.

`I watched till thrones were put in place, & the Ancient of days was seated;….` (Dan. 7: 9)

So we know that Christ made all authority positions in the invisible (& visible) & when Lucifer was cast out, the position of Kingpriest with an order, is still there.

Enough for now to discuss, if you want to.

Marilyn.










 

Edited July 24, 2015 by Marilyn C

[Serving]

Hi M,

 

Sorry sis, I am not ignoring your answer, Just that I got inspired to reply on some other posts while waiting for you  

 

Will get back to you soon I promise when I am a bit more focussed .. very tired from huge week, and I need to read your reply carefully .. don't want to give your reply a half measure "lip service" reply, but a proper one. 

 

So if you don't mind waiting just a bit, I will get back to you.

 

God bless.