emekrus Posted July 29, 2015 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 1 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 57 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 79 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/01/2015 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 29, 2015 (edited) You know, each time I see someone in need of help, especially materially and I don't have anything to be of help, it is something that gives me a ill-feeling. Yet the folks who preach poverty, will see these folks and pretend they are not seeing them, even with enough money in hands and bank account. All they ever care about is just their selves and families. Yet, they wallow their selves in self righteousness... But I say the truth, many folks will be in for a great hell of surprise on the day of judgment. Both in the first resurrection and the white throne judgement. You know, the scriptures says, bear one another's burden and by so doing fulfill the law of Christ. But folks seem to be complacent with only self gratification and nothing more. As for me, the prosperity revelation in that book of Joel 2 is very clear to me, and by the grace of God, I understand perfectly its essence. And for the folks who want to settle for less- both in the manifestation of the Spirit and in supernatural prosperity, well its to them according to their faith. But for me, I am very ready to be as impactful to my world, to the extent that is available in the Kingdom, hence, I'll press in for all the abundance in the ocean of God. And if anyone cares and loves enough, he can follow suite. Edited July 29, 2015 by emekrus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Zion* Posted July 29, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 154 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 3,245 Content Per Day: 0.78 Reputation: 2,397 Days Won: 9 Joined: 12/09/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/11/1984 Share Posted July 29, 2015 Abundance and prosperity from God, to me, means an overwhelming outpouring of His spirit on believers and the unbelievable gift of eternal life. The give to get garbage is just that, garbage. God never promises anyone material wealth in Scripture. Well, with this your point of view, you might as well be debunking the truth in the scripture I quoted in the article, as well as the scripture that says; Christ became poor, though he was rich, so we can through his poverty become rich. And also the scripture that says; I wish above all things that thou may prosper and be in health even as thy soul prospereth--3 John 2. ...... Wouldn't you think? Tich in the Spirit....not money, cars, houses etc. You don't understand the Gospels. I guess you might as well be saying the scriptures were wrongly written with all these your unbelieving statements. First you said the give and receive doctrine is garbage. Which means you're directly saying Jesus was teaching garbage when he said; "Give and it shall be given unto you, good measure, pressed down and shaking together shall men give unto your bosom" . Please, dear brothers and sisters, zeal is good, but it must be administered in knowledge, wisdom and understanding else, we blaspheme inadvertently, thinking we're doing God a service. No, the Scriptures are not wrongly written, you just don't understand them. Simple. Your zeal is to claim that God wants us all to be rich. Tell that to the poor believers in Asia, Africa, South America, and indeed all around the world. God's power is not in material riches, these people are living their lives out in simple faith, being sustained by God as He sees fit. Why does He not 'bless' them with a million dollars? Does He love them less then He loves Bill Gates, let's say? You will find that because they have less than us, they depend on God more than us, and He gives them abundantly according to their need, and the result? They have more of the true treasure! For where your treasure is, there your heart is. Now i'm not saying that we should all be dirt poor (actually, the time will soon come when we will be), but what I am saying is that we should all learn to depend on God to give us our daily bread - mannah from Heaven - more of Himself! Moses didn't eat or drink anything on top of a mountain for forty days and nights - twice! God's presence alone sustained him. And when he came down, he was not only healthy, he was so positively radiating from God's glory that no one could look at him. Talk about not lacking... The blessing is not in the money, it is in God; though if He desires to give someone money no one is going to stop Him. We are not blaspheming Him, we are glorifying Him - He is all in all and more besides, much more than all the world could offer. How are you not seeing this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ezra Posted July 29, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 134 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 8,142 Content Per Day: 2.34 Reputation: 6,612 Days Won: 20 Joined: 11/02/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted July 29, 2015 You know, each time I see someone in need of help, especially materially and I don't have anything to be of help, it is something that gives me a ill-feeling. Emekrus, I feel exactly the same way. It is extremely distressing to not be able to help others in financial distress or for their material needs. You know, the scriptures says, bear one another's burden and by so doing fulfill the law of Christ. But folks seem to be complacent with only self gratification and nothing more. Those burdens include financial burdens, and there are many Christian brothers and sisters who need a heping hand right now. If we don't have the resources, how will we help? When Paul took up collections for the impoverished Christians in Judea, this is exactly what he and other Christians were doing. As for me, the prosperity revelation in that book of Joel 2 is very clear to me, and by the grace of God, I understand perfectly its essence. And for the folks who want to settle for less- both in the manifestation of the Spirit and in supernatural prosperity, well its to them according to their faith. So long as we are not covetous, this is perfectly in the will of God. Scripture says that those who receive bountifully should also give bountifully. That implies that some will indeed receive bountifully. But for me, I am very ready to be as impactful to my world, to the extent that is available in the Kingdom, hence, I'll press in for all the abundance in the ocean of God. The way to look at this is in practical terms. If a Christian is able to meet his daily needs, and at the same time invest $1,000,000 in the Lord's work, imagine the tremendous blessings that could be made available, especially to those in third world countries, where $1 = 1,000 local currency (for example). This needs to be seen as an investment which will provide eternal returns, and lay up treasure in Heaven. There are millions without even basic toilet facilities, as well as other basic needs (food, clothing, shelter). Those needs can be met with cash investments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ezra Posted July 29, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 134 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 8,142 Content Per Day: 2.34 Reputation: 6,612 Days Won: 20 Joined: 11/02/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted July 29, 2015 The blessing is not in the money, it is in God Let's look at this closely. Let's say there is a need for 10,000 Bibles to be distributed at no charge to people in a foreign land where Bibles are hard to come by. Let's say each Bible costs $10, and the missionary says there is an urgent need. Now you need $100,000 to make this blessing possible, but its not there. Where is the blessing since God says that His Word needs to be given away freely? So it may sound very spiritual to say that the blessing is in God, when in fact there will be no blessing because there is no cash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Zion* Posted July 29, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 154 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 3,245 Content Per Day: 0.78 Reputation: 2,397 Days Won: 9 Joined: 12/09/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/11/1984 Share Posted July 29, 2015 Ezra, you really think God needs cash to provide? Andrew thought the same, but Jesus showed him different when He fed 5000+ people all in one go, with more food to spare left over and some... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 There is a difference between Gods' corporate blessing on the church with the needed finances to spread the Gospel, and the teaching that God wants every believer to live in financial abundance. The Bible does not promise every believer financial wealth. He promises to meet your needs. But sometimes, what we see as a need and what God sees as our need are two different things. I don't think anyone is preaching poverty, but neither do we believe that God wants all believers to be millionaires. The Gospel does not depend on us. God uses us, but he gets the credit for the spread of the Gospel. We are simply tools he uses. God will enable the church with the needed finances to meet the needs of preaching the Gospel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldzimm Posted July 30, 2015 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 85 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,874 Content Per Day: 0.34 Reputation: 348 Days Won: 12 Joined: 03/10/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/08/1955 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Money is not the route to evil, the love of money is the route to evil. God doesn't necessarily have to give us what we want, but he will give us what we need. Wealth is in the eyes of the beholder, in some countries a person may consider themselves wealthy if they got a tin roof over his head, cloths on his back, shoes on his feet and a few goats outside. In some countries a person leaving Church Sunday morning might be having a hard time deciding where to find food for dinner. Here in the USA were spoiled, some people after leaving Church have a hard time deciding what restaurant to go to for Sunday dinner. If God blesses a person with the ability to turn a small amount of money into a large amount of money, God is not interested in the money itself, God is interested in what you're going to do with the money for his will, his glory. Oldzimm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ezra Posted July 30, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 134 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 8,142 Content Per Day: 2.34 Reputation: 6,612 Days Won: 20 Joined: 11/02/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted July 30, 2015 Ezra, you really think God needs cash to provide? Andrew thought the same, but Jesus showed him different when He fed 5000+ people all in one go, with more food to spare left over and some... Zion, How do you pay your bills? How do Christian pay their bills? How do churches and missionaries pay their bills, if not with cash? And while Christ multiplied loaves and fishes, someone paid cash to purchase them in the first place. Money is a medium of exchange, and has been since ancient times. It can either be used for tremendous good and the Gospel, or it can be hoarded and worshipped to the eternal damnation of those who don't understand the difference between stewardship and greed or hoarding. The Prosperity Gospel is obviously false, but it is also quite unspiritual to disregard the blessings which can flow from a proper use of wealth (2 Cor 9:6-11): 6 But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully. 7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver. 8 And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work: 9 (As it is written, He hath dispersed abroad; he hath given to the poor: his righteousness remaineth for ever. 10 Now he that ministereth seed to the sower both minister bread for your food, and multiply your seed sown, and increase the fruits of your righteousness;) 11 Being enriched in every thing to all bountifulness, which causeth through us thanksgiving to God. Hence Christ's parable of the steward who was actually unrighteous, but taught a lesson in the use of money to Christians. Not all Christians will be wealthy, but those who are (or will be) have been instructed as follows (1 Tim 6:9,10): But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition. For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorningGlory Posted July 30, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1,022 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 39,193 Content Per Day: 6.10 Reputation: 9,977 Days Won: 78 Joined: 10/01/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted July 30, 2015 I guess you might as well be saying the scriptures were wrongly written with all these your unbelieving statements. First you said the give and receive doctrine is garbage. Which means you're directly saying Jesus was teaching garbage when he said; "Give and it shall be given unto you, good measure, pressed down and shaking together shall men give unto your bosom" . YOU need to learn to read what it actually written. The Scriptures are not wrongly written; they are misinterpreted by people like you and the multitude of 'evangelists' that use them to make themselves rich. I did NOT say that give and receive was garbage; I said GIVE TO GET IS GARBAGE and that's exactly what I mean. Don't you ever tell me that I made any denigrating comment about the Lord. EVER. Please, dear brothers and sisters, zeal is good, but it must be administered in knowledge, wisdom and understanding else, we blaspheme inadvertently, thinking we're doing God a service. Well then, stop doing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Zion* Posted July 30, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 154 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 3,245 Content Per Day: 0.78 Reputation: 2,397 Days Won: 9 Joined: 12/09/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/11/1984 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Ezra, you really think God needs cash to provide? Andrew thought the same, but Jesus showed him different when He fed 5000+ people all in one go, with more food to spare left over and some... Zion, How do you pay your bills? How do Christian pay their bills? How do churches and missionaries pay their bills, if not with cash? And while Christ multiplied loaves and fishes, someone paid cash to purchase them in the first place. Money is a medium of exchange, and has been since ancient times. It can either be used for tremendous good and the Gospel, or it can be hoarded and worshipped to the eternal damnation of those who don't understand the difference between stewardship and greed or hoarding. The Prosperity Gospel is obviously false, but it is also quite unspiritual to disregard the blessings which can flow from a proper use of wealth (2 Cor 9:6-11): 6 But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully. 7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver. 8 And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work: 9 (As it is written, He hath dispersed abroad; he hath given to the poor: his righteousness remaineth for ever. 10 Now he that ministereth seed to the sower both minister bread for your food, and multiply your seed sown, and increase the fruits of your righteousness;) 11 Being enriched in every thing to all bountifulness, which causeth through us thanksgiving to God. Hence Christ's parable of the steward who was actually unrighteous, but taught a lesson in the use of money to Christians. Not all Christians will be wealthy, but those who are (or will be) have been instructed as follows (1 Tim 6:9,10): But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition. For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows. Ezra, I'm grateful to God for His every blessing, but I'm not gonna limit Him and say: cash only please! If He wants to feed by sending a raven, mannah or tell me to save and store my grain, who am I to argue against Him? You make it sound like God must work within our limitations in order to satisfy us. But He died to give us His life, not our own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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