WHY is the Body of Christ `caught up?`

[kwikphilly]

Quote

Hi Kwik,

Yes I will certainly tell you if you miss that thread. I`m very glad that you are willing to hear my thoughts. I will start to post those when different ones have had an opportunity to contribute. Seems like Leonardo is thinking quite deeply on this topic.

Now I`m quite interested to hear why you changed your mind concerning the pre trib. Now I see you as one God has given a great heart for the lost & you `ooze` (in the right way) God`s heart out to others. Now that is wonderful & we all hear God through your posts. Thus I seem to think your gifting has caused you to want to reach out to all those hurting in the trib. Would that be so?

Blessings & healing, Marilyn.

Hi Sis,Beloved....

   I don't really even know what to say except "Glory to God in the Highest" ,any Word that comes from my mouth that points to Him is from Him......He Alone is more than deserving,Worthy of our Praise!!!!

    Sis,I don't know what God Will have me or anyone do but I will tell you that my heart is Filled with His Compassion for anyone hurting at any time......perhaps that is why  I have been through the trials I have been so privileged to go through,I have been given "Faith,Trust,Confidence" by His Blessed Assurance through all things,this Assurance came through many Sisters & Brothers from Holy Spirit,what an honor it is to give back,in the harvest field......I can only reply"Here am I Lord,use me"

    Thank you again,if I am here,alive in this body during the tribulation I just pray Jesus us give me not only the Strength to endure for myself but to lead by example,lead to our Precious Lord & Savior,HOPE remains in Christ!!!!!                                                     With love-in Christ,Kwik

[Leonardo Von]

19 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Kwik,

Yes I will certainly tell you if you miss that thread. I`m very glad that you are willing to hear my thoughts. I will start to post those when different ones have had an opportunity to contribute. Seems like Leonardo is thinking quite deeply on this topic.

Dear sister Marilyn,

 

Grace and mercy and peace from our Lord Jesus Christ.

Really I am, Marilyn.

I was about to post the answer, but you and our dear sister Kwik got something that a few persons get: change my convictions. My understanding about who is part of the Church and the place where it will be during the millennium changed radically.

As to answer your question, it is necessary to define such things, I need to make two posts: one to explain what is written above and other to, finally, answer your question.

I praise Jesus for your life and your questions that really guide us to the truth, in order to fulfill in us proverbs 4.18:

 

Ø  “But the path of the just [ is ] as the shining light, that shineth more and more unto the perfect day.” (Proverbs 4.18).

 

I hope to post the answer tomorrow. My only doubt is: ought to I post the two post at the same time or, if I can’t handle the posts timely, ought to I post one at a time?

May Jesus continue to give you brilliant questions to stimulate us to think in Christ and His Truth.

[Marilyn C]

1 hour ago, Leonardo Von said:

Dear sister Marilyn,

Grace and mercy and peace from our Lord Jesus Christ.

Really I am, Marilyn.

I was about to post the answer, but you and our dear sister Kwik got something that a few persons get: change my convictions. My understanding about who is part of the Church and the place where it will be during the millennium changed radically.

As to answer your question, it is necessary to define such things, I need to make two posts: one to explain what is written above and other to, finally, answer your question.

I praise Jesus for your life and your questions that really guide us to the truth, in order to fulfill in us proverbs 4.18:

 

Ø  “But the path of the just [ is ] as the shining light, that shineth more and more unto the perfect day.” (Proverbs 4.18).

 

I hope to post the answer tomorrow. My only doubt is: ought to I post the two post at the same time or, if I can’t handle the posts timely, ought to I post one at a time?

May Jesus continue to give you brilliant questions to stimulate us to think in Christ and His Truth.

 

Hi Leonardo Von,

Just post as you see fit. We will answer the one we want & the discussion will go on. If they are long or on different points, then post 2 comments, that`s fine.

Look forward to your comments, when you have time.

Marilyn.

[Salty]

On 8/6/2015 at 1:50 AM, Marilyn C said:

Probably most believers here would agree that the Body of Christ is `caught up,` at some point, but disagree on the `WHEN,` the timing - `pre, mid, post` etc. And there are plenty of threads to discuss these views. However this topic is concerned with the big `WHY.`

I can think of at least 10 good reasons (& there are probably more) as to WHY the Body of Christ is `caught up.`

`But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you should sorrow as others who have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died & rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who are asleep in Jesus.

For we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive & remain until the coming of the Lord will be no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, & with the trumpet of God.

And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive & remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words.` (1 Thess. 4: 13 – 18)

So my question for discussion is - `WHY` is the Body of Christ `caught up?`
What reason/s do you see that the Body of Christ is `caught up?`

Looking forward to your answers.

Marilyn

The only reason why I can think of is because those of us who remain faithful waiting on our Lord Jesus' coming will fulfill the idea of being 'called out' ones with the duty to reign with Christ in the future. We're to be a chosen priesthood per Peter.

 

[Marilyn C]

1 hour ago, Salty said:

The only reason why I can think of is because those of us who remain faithful waiting on our Lord Jesus' coming will fulfill the idea of being 'called out' ones with the duty to reign with Christ in the future. We're to be a chosen priesthood per Peter.

 

Hi Salty,

Because my Op wasn`t clear people have either talked about the conditions or the consequences of the catching away. However you have come close to the WHY of the rapture. Still a bit more detail to go I believe. So.... the chosen priesthood. What sort of priesthood bro. Can you dig deeper?

regards, Marilyn.

BTW are you the Salty that I used to discuss quite vigorously with in the past?

 

 

Edited October 28, 2016 by Marilyn C

[Salty]

17 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Salty,

Because my Op wasn`t clear people have either talked about the conditions or the consequences of the catching away. However you have come close to the WHY of the rapture. Still a bit more detail to go I believe. So.... the chosen priesthood. What sort of priesthood bro. Can you dig deeper?

regards, Marilyn.

BTW are you the Salty that I used to discuss quite vigorously with in the past?

Hi Marilyn, I probably am the one and same that conversed with you in the past.

Peter explained it this way:

1 Peter 2:9-10
9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of Him Who hath called you out of darkness into His marvellous light:

10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.
KJV

 

[Marilyn C]

8 hours ago, Salty said:

Hi Marilyn, I probably am the one and same that conversed with you in the past.

Peter explained it this way:

1 Peter 2:9-10
9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of Him Who hath called you out of darkness into His marvellous light:

10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.
KJV

 

Hi Salty,

Good to see the scriptures there bro. Now sometimes we need to highlight a certain portion to see a particular truth. So I don`t want to put words in your mouth, but what sort of priesthood do you see there?

Marilyn.

[Leonardo Von]

Dear sister Marilyn,

Grace and mercy and peace from our Lord Jesus Christ.

After analyzing the comments of yours and Kwik’s, Jesus brings to my mind the His prayer:

•         “Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as [ it is ] in heaven.” (Matthew 6.11).

 

Note that the will of Jesus is to be done both in earth and in heaven. But isn’t God’s will being done in heaven? So, what are we praying for?

Then I thought of two groups working in the millennium: one in heaven and other on earth (of course, as this theory is quite recent, I still do not have answers to all the questions).

In heaven we have:

•       a)      Jesus;
•       b)      the Church (the Bride of the Lamb);
•       c)      Jews who died a natural death in the Great Tribulation (the group of Revelation 15.1-3);
•       d)      Gentiles who died a natural death in the Great Tribulation (the group of Revelation 7.9,10,13,14).

 

Fhere is fulfilled the following promise TO THE CHURCH:

•        “To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.” (Revelation 3.21).

 

The Church will be used by Jesus to perfect the saints coming from the Great Tribulation (groups “c” and “d”). After all, if their faith was perfect (stand fast in the grace only), they would have been raptured to heaven as a part of the Church.

These two groups go to the heaven because, as their souls go down to the grave in peace (see 1Kings 2.6,9; 2Kings 22.20; Daniel 12.13), they don’t have a thirst of vengeance. On the contrary: they want to forget the severities of the physical world (see Revelation 7.15-17).

In earth we have:

•       David;
•      Jews and Gentiles who was died by antichrist during the Great Tribulation (the group of Revelation 6.9-11 and Revelation 20.4 – they are the same group).
•      The 144.000 Jews which will enter lives in physical flesh in the millennium (the group of Revelation 7.3-8; 14.1-5).
•       The Gentiles that get to stay alive during the Great Tribulation believing in Christ (the group of Matthew 25.34-40).

 

Due to the fact that David had been a man of blood (1Chronicles 22.8; 1Chronicles 28.3), instead of he goes to the heaven, he stays here being used by Jesus to build the temple (something that he wanted very much) and to rule all nations with a rod of iron (Revelation 12.5).

 

•        “But they shall serve the LORD their God, and David their king, whom I will raise up unto them.” (Jeremiah 30.9)
•        “Afterward shall the children of Israel return, and seek the LORD their God, and David their king; and shall fear the LORD and his goodness in the latter days.” (Hosea 3.5).

 

Let’s understand this better.

The Church is composed of all that died in Christ (including those who believed before His first coming) until the Great Tribulation (with exception of David).

•        “Then take silver and gold, and make crowns, and set [ them ] upon the head of Joshua the son of Josedech, the high priest; and speak unto him, saying, Thus speaketh the LORD of hosts, saying, Behold the man whose name [ is ] The BRANCH; and he shall grow up out of his place, and he shall build the temple of the LORD: even he shall build the temple of the LORD; and he shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon his throne; and he shall be a priest upon his throne: and the counsel of peace shall be between them both.” (Zechariah 6.11-13).

 

In the prophecy above, Joshua was high priest, but was receiving crowns (something that belongs only to kings). The Eternal was prophesying that, in the future, the Branch will be lifted. He will be king and priest at the same time.

•        “And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots: and the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;” (Isaiah 11.1,2).

 

The Branch is Jesus Christ. However, remember that the Church is priest and king (Revelation 1.6; 5.10). Furthermore, a rod come forth out the stem of Jesse. This rod is David.

•           In heaven, Jesus is High Priest and King and the Church is priest and king;
•          On earth, David is high priest and king (through Jesus Christ) and all that died in the Great Tribulation are priest and kings. They go to live and govern with Jesus, that is, in perfect communion with Him and  serving to Him, inasmuch as David will be in total communion with Him (see Rev 2.28). After all, what permit us to reign with someone is to be in perfect harmony with him.

 

About this group (described in Revelation 20.4) is fulfilled the follow prophecy:

•       “And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father. And I will give him the morning star.” (Revelation 2.26-28).

 

They will not be in heaven because they also didn’t have their faith perfected (otherwise, they would have been raptured). Remember that they were asking vengeance (Revelation 6.9-11). They all will be resurrected when Jesus comes to the battle of Armageddon (see Revelation 19.14), in order to see the result of the judgment of the vials, as well as the defeat of the army of the antichrist, the destruction of Ha-Satan and his confederates (Revelation 20.7-10) and the judgment of the Great White Throne (Revelation 20.11-15).

Considering that they yearn to see the wrath of the Eternal, they will get this “privilege” (to whom, unfortunately, considers the ruin of the wicked as a good spectacle of being seen).

They need to see the judgment of the vials falling down over all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men in order to see the pain in the heart of Jesus in having to judge this world (see Ezekiel 33.11).

David and those that died in the Great Tribulation will rein in Jerusalem on the 144.000 Jews and the gentiles that get to remain alive and stand firm in Christ during all the Great Tribulation (Jesus, in spirit, is among the nations judging – Isaiah 2.4). Both come in the millennium in the natural body. The 144.000 Jews will be around Jerusalem and the gentiles, scatter all over the world, but being governed from Jerusalem (Isaiah 2.2-4).

I know that this idea sounds a little weird. But brothers, please, don’t think that I am a heretical. I am merely a brother seeking to know the truth. This theory was the best that I can think to explain the motive of the rapture, as well as the different groups showed to John in revelation.

Next comes the answer to the questions.

Best regards.

Edited October 30, 2016 by Leonardo Von

[Leonardo Von]

 

Dear sister Marilyn,

Grace and mercy and peace from our Lord Jesus Christ.

Considering that all that was described on the previous post is correct, let’s go to understand the motive of the rapture:

The brother Ezra hit the nail on the head:

•            “For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,” (1Thessalonians 5.9).

 

But, as you and the sister Kwik said:

 

On 10/25/2016 at 6:15 PM, Marilyn C said:

I believe, all the different groups, who turn to God, receive salvation, and that is the means by which they can receive what they are destined for.

On 10/27/2016 at 0:55 PM, kwikphilly said:

As I am not a "pre-tribber" (used to be though)I do not see "escapism" as the answer.I too believe that our Heavenly Father needn't "remove us" to protect us ,certainly not as "the only way"-lol   I do think He has a much Higher Purpose for the Body of Christ in mind that is the Reason "WHY"

How, then, to resolve these questions:

As I said previously, Jesus will come to catch up “THE BRIDE”, and NOT “THE BODY OF CHRIST”. I repeat: nowhere in the Sacred Scripture is said “the Bride of the Jesus”, “the Bride of the Christ” or “the Bride of the Jesus Christ”, but “the Bride of the Lamb”.

Perhaps you question: “but Jesus is the Lamb of God!”. Correct! Nevertheless, we have that respect the title of God (or of Jesus) that is being used. It is these particularities that allow us to understand correctly the Sacred Scripture.

Lamb is a cordial animal (the root of this word expresses it). The lamb is docile; it is the animal that offers less resistance to be sacrificed.

Once the Church is the Bride of the Lamb, therefore she will be one flesh with this characteristic of the Christ. In other words, she will be clothed of Christ and His sweet and fond justice:

•           “But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to [ fulfil ] the lusts [ thereof ].” (Romans 13.14).
•           “And above all these things [ put on ] charity, which is the bond of perfectness.” (Colossians 3.14).
•           “And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.” (Revelation 19.8).

 

By way of explanation, the Bride don’t appear (not is to appear). One of the reasons because the Eternal took one of the ribs of Adam to make Eve it is to teach men that their role in the home is to protect the wife like a precious jewel.

Furthermore, the etymological meaning of the word Bridegroom is: one that grooms (tend carefully, take care of; make clean and tidy) the bride.

Jesus, as perfect Bridegroom, desires always cover His Bride within Himself (hence the declarations of Psalms 46.1,10; 91.1,2). Jesus never intended that His Bride was a warrior (to overthrow the walls of Jericho, to defeat Goliath and so many similar things that we, unfortunately, hear in religious institutions or by famous preachers of the Sacred Scripture).

No! See the desire of Jesus:

•           “Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; that he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, that he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.” (Ephesians 5.25-27).
•           “For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present [ you as ] a chaste virgin to Christ.” (2Corinthians 11.2).

 

Now, think: how do you imagine that the heart of the Bride (with so much sweetness, purity, holiness, compassion, etc.) would be seeing so much sadness, anguish, misery, injustice, evilness, badness, etc. coming with the antichrist or the judgment of the vials? Especially considering that many friends, acquaintances, etc. won’t be caught away by Jesus.

This is a very exceptional pain, more than a sweet and fond Bride is capable to support. And, like we know:

•           “There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God [ is ] faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear [ it ].” (1Corinthians 10.13).

 

In this case, the only form to escape of the wrath is coming out of all this.

Summarizing: The Bride is saved from three things:

•          Of suffering the wrath inside herself, to wit, the indignation for seeing all the injustice of the antichrist;
•          Of suffering seeing the grievous pain and extreme misery agonizing the people for the sake of the wrath of God that is falling down over them;
•          Of suffering the outcomes of the wrath. As a Bridegroom who cherishes His bride as an enclosed garden, He never ever allows (neither will permit) that nothing bad happens to her. The things that Jesus permits in our lives is to treat us, clean us, so that He can move closer to us.

 

All that Jesus wants is to have intimacy with His Bride. He only takes away from us what separate us from Him and from His Bride:

•           “And this [ word ], Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain.” (Hebrews 12.27).

 

Hereby we can take in “Why Jesus will catch away His Bride suddenly, snatching her, to wit, in an opening and closing of eyes” (1Corinthians 15.52).

As Jesus is the Bridegroom and the Church, the Bride, let’s think physically. Imagine a engaged couple. What does it animate the bridegroom to take the bride for himself? This begins in the heart of the bridegroom. He starts to live the life of married couple during the betrothal. His imagination is so strong that he has her within himself.

When everything is ready (their house is prompt), the love burns with such intensity in the heart of the bridegroom that his will is to rapture the bride off the world so that, then, he can dedicate himself full time to her (without anything and anybody to disturb) and to overflow all the love that has been fed within him. He can’t wait. Beyond this, he doesn’t want to give occasion to someone to rape her or to change her mind or heart.

I know that this idea seems odd. However, think about what happened when the people of Israel got out of the Egypt. The order of the Eternal was clear:

•          “And thus shall ye eat it; [ with ] your loins girded, your shoes on your feet, and your staff in your hand; and ye shall eat it in haste: it [ is ] the LORD'S passover.” (Exodus 12.11).
•           “Thou shalt eat no leavened bread with it; seven days shalt thou eat unleavened bread therewith, [ even ] the bread of affliction; for thou camest forth out of the land of Egypt in haste: that thou mayest remember the day when thou camest forth out of the land of Egypt all the days of thy life.” (Deuteronomy 16.13).

 

Note that, while the time didn’t arrive, they have to stay quiet. Nevertheless, when the moment arrived, they can’t waste time. They had to do right away. Thus, neither the people of Israel would desist to leave, nor the people of Egypt would back down about to leave them come out.

Similarly, Jesus has been living His love for the Church interiorly (not merely imagining this, as it is with a human bridegroom), through His Holy Spirit. He has been living His love in everyone’s life that allow this love within themselves (as if all already was in the heaven – hence Ephesians 1.3; 2.6; 2Peter 1.3).

This love that Jesus has for His Church every day increases and it is so, so magnificent that, when the Church were completely arrayed with those who shall be heirs of salvation (meditate on Hebrews 1.14; Revelation 19.8), He won’t want to wait not even a second (at a lower time to open and close the eyes).

To illustrate this, see how the Holy Spirit baptized everyone in the house of Cornelius, before Peter to end this preaching, taking everyone by surprise:

•           “While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.” (Acts 10.44)

 

When the Holy Spirit saw that the heart of all was prepared, He didn’t want to wait. Something similar come about in Acts 2.1,2:

•           “And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.” (Acts 2.1,2)

 

And as we love Jesus because he first loved us (1John 4.19), all His love for His Bride will burn so ardently in us that will function like a magnet more powerful than all attractiveness of this world (with only one difference: in the Kingdom of Heaven, the similar attract themselves, and not the opposites).

At last, the True Love suffers long (1Corinthians 13.4), but when He perceives that the heart of the beloved person is prepared to receive Him, He doesn’t postpone. He is ready to act.

May Jesus meets place in us to work this huge love in us.

Edited October 30, 2016 by Leonardo Von

[Marilyn C]

17 hours ago, Leonardo Von said:

Dear sister Marilyn,

Grace and mercy and peace from our Lord Jesus Christ.

There is fulfilled the following promise TO THE CHURCH:

•        “To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.” (Revelation 3.21).

 

Hi Leonardo Von,

I see you have many thoughts, however I will just address the one regarding our topic. I have printed off your notes & it would be good to discuss those on different threads especially for those topics.

Here is what Salty also has shown us -

1 Peter 2:9-10
9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of Him Who hath called you out of darkness into His marvellous light:

I have highlighted your part & Salty`s - `to sit with me in my throne,` &  `a royal (King) priesthood.`  Thus I believe from God`s word that the reason for the catching away, the rapture of the Body of Christ is for the Lord to take it to its eternal setting - on His throne, in the third heaven where they will be KingPriests unto God. This is what has been promised -our inheritance.

Now as to the timing of that important event, well.....that is another story, another thread.

regards, Marilyn.