The Battle of Gog and Magog

[Ezra]

28 minutes ago, Esther4:14 said:

I think Marv is being rude to you and I would challenge someone to assert that this is false according to scripture. 

Perhaps Marv could have been more diplomatic, but what he stated was correct. The narrative in Daniel does not attribute anything to Satan as such. Ultimately Nebuchadnezzar did give glory to God, and decreed that everyone in his empire should worship the true God:

The king answered unto Daniel, and said, Of a truth it is, that your God is a God of gods, and a Lord of kings, and a revealer of secrets, seeing thou couldest reveal this secret... Then Nebuchadnezzar spake, and said, Blessed be the God of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, who hath sent his angel, and delivered his servants that trusted in him, and have changed the king's word, and yielded their bodies, that they might not serve nor worship any god, except their own God.  Therefore I make a decree, That every people, nation, and language, which speak any thing amiss against the God of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, shall be cut in pieces, and their houses shall be made a dunghill: because there is no other God that can deliver after this sort... Now I Nebuchadnezzar praise and extol and honour the King of heaven, all whose works are truth, and his ways judgment: and those that walk in pride he is able to abase.

 

[Sister]

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Hi Sister,

It will never cease to amaze me that people think that being rude to someone increases their credibility somehow.  Personally, I cannot fathom why it was necessary to say "your words are a fraud," in the above quote at all.  Completely unnecessary.  It would seem reasonable that if you truly believe you have proven a case with scripture, there is no need to add the clear statements that express personal frustration with another person that have nothing to do with the subject.   I can clearly see a frustration that has nothing to do with the subject matter at all, and obviously would expect it to be denied rather than hear any repentance as most people like this usually do-because they have such a great argument.  People who think other people need to be rebuked for their rudeness are just taking things too personally, which is really not a scriptural case for demonstrating that a person is not capable of discerning unloving attitudes towards other believers and is only taking something too personally. 

I think Marv is being rude to you and I would challenge someone to assert that this is false according to scripture.  Where does it say in scripture that I am taking something too personally and that it is okay to speak this way to people if they are wrong?  We are obviously talking about prophecy here.  Does this mean that people choose to discuss prophecy because they know nothing about love?  I think this is often why people choose to discuss prophecy because they are uncomfortable with the basic command of Christ to love their neighbor.  If you can't speak in love, you are not qualified to discuss prophecy. 

I actually think you make a great point about Satan being in charge, which I was already somewhat familiar with from some of your posts, and was thinking about when I read through Revelation again the other day.  I clearly can see a connection to Esau in chapter 13 that I had never noticed before.  The dragon described in Revelation 13 is Satan according to Revelation 12:9. 

In Revelation 13:2 we can see that the dragon (Satan) gives his power, authority, throne to the beast the way Esau gave up his birthright; and they worship the dragon (Satan) because of this (Revelation 13:4).  They say, "who is like the beast; who is able to make war with it?" (Revelation 13:4) because of the power he is given, which is the same thing they said about King Herod in Acts 12:22. 

However, what is most significant about the connection made between these various characters from history and their relationship with the Devil is what the Bible says about Pharaoh.  "But I will harden Pharaoh's heart, and though I multiply my signs and wonders in Egypt," (Exodus 7:3).  The Bible tells us that Pharaoh's heart was hardened.  This describes the dragon as having a hardened heart like Pharaoh.  This is why he exchanges he gives his birthright to the beast, so to speak. 

 

Hi Esther

Thank you Sister.

Yes, if we insult each other personally, and go against Christ's basic commandment of to love one another, will the holy spirit reside or leave?  God is not raising us to be hyprocrites, but true followers of the Lamb who worship in Spirit and in Truth and testify that his ways are the way to go.

They could not work this one out, so I am going to share with you;

Zechariah 11:3   There is a voice of the howling of the shepherds; for their glory is spoiled: a voice of the roaring of young lions; for the pride of Jordan is spoiled.

When they think of Jordan, they think of that country where Edom is today, and was back then.  That's all they see.

They don't realise that the Christians were "baptised" in the "river Jordan"  So it's not particularly speaking of that river, but what took place. BAPTISM.  It is referring to "the baptised". people.  Christians.

To some of us, our biggest oppressors have become "the baptised",... our brothers.  Abuse is also coming from within "the flock".  Brother against brother.  Scripture is being fulfilled before our very eyes.

 1 John 2:11   But he that hateth his brother is in darkness, and walketh in darkness, and knoweth not whither he goeth, because that darkness hath blinded his eyes.

  1 John 3:10   In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

The "young lions" of some of the churches today, are the loud mouths who exalt themselves and take pleasure in thinking all others are below them.  They know it all and no-one can show them anything new from the scriptures.  If we are not grazing on their same pasture ("teachings and meeting places") they thrust us out, trying to shame us by belittling.  They can not grow because of pride.  They are so at ease, thinking they can do and say whatever they like because their sins will always be forgiven.  This is the trap. 

God will sift them out of the kingdom when the time comes.  They will be joined to the world, because they act like the world.  The shepherds will howl because Christ will spoil the glory they gave themselves.  They are one with Edom, in that same basket.

So if we are Christian, baptised unto Christ, and we think that we don't have to love our brother, and are an exemption from this commandment, then the Lord is going to spoil our pastures.  Our foundation is going to crumble, and will not hold us up, for the Lamb is going to spoil that self type of glory and pride he does not endorse.

 

Jeremiah 12:5   If thou hast run with the footmen, and they have wearied thee, then how canst thou contend with horses? and if in the land of peace, wherein thou trustedst, they wearied thee, then how wilt thou do in the swelling of Jordan?

[Sister]

 Jeremiah 12:1   Righteous art thou, O LORD, when I plead with thee: yet let me talk with thee of thy judgments: Wherefore doth the way of the wicked prosper? wherefore are all they happy that deal very treacherously?

  Jeremiah 12:2   Thou hast planted them, yea, they have taken root: they grow, yea, they bring forth fruit: thou art near in their mouth, and far from their reins.

  Jeremiah 12:3   But thou, O LORD, knowest me: thou hast seen me, and tried mine heart toward thee: pull them out like sheep for the slaughter, and prepare them for the day of slaughter.

  Jeremiah 12:4   How long shall THE LAND mourn, and the herbs of every field wither, for the wickedness of them that dwell therein? the beasts are consumed, and the birds; because they said, He shall not see our last end.

  Jeremiah 12:5   If thou hast run with the footmen, and they have wearied thee, then how canst thou contend with horses? and if in the land of peace, wherein thou trustedst, they wearied thee, then how wilt thou do in the swelling of Jordan?

  Jeremiah 12:6   For even thy brethren, and the house of thy father, even they have dealt treacherously with thee; yea, they have called a multitude after thee: believe them not, though they speak fair words unto thee.

  Jeremiah 12:7   I have forsaken mine house, I have left mine heritage; I have given the dearly beloved of my soul into the hand of her enemies.

  Jeremiah 12:8   Mine heritage is unto me as a lion in the forest; it crieth out against me: therefore have I hated it.

  Jeremiah 12:9   Mine heritage is unto me as a speckled bird, the birds round about are against her; come ye, assemble all the beasts of the field, come to devour.

  Jeremiah 12:10   Many pastors have destroyed my vineyard, they have trodden my portion under foot, they have made my pleasant portion a desolate wilderness.

  Jeremiah 12:11   They have made it desolate, and being desolate it mourneth unto me; the WHOLE LAND is made desolate, because no man layeth it to heart.

  Jeremiah 12:12   The spoilers are come upon all high places through the wilderness: for the sword of the LORD shall devour from the one end of THE LAND even to the other end of THE LAND: no flesh shall have peace.

  Jeremiah 12:13   They have sown wheat, but shall reap thorns: they have put themselves to pain, but shall not profit: and they shall be ashamed of your revenues because of the fierce anger of the LORD.

  Jeremiah 12:14   Thus saith the LORD against all mine evil neighbours, that touch the inheritance which I have caused my people Israel to inherit; Behold, I will pluck them out of their land, and pluck out the house of Judah from among them.

  Jeremiah 12:15   And it shall come to pass, after that I have plucked them out I will return, and have compassion on them, and will bring them again, every man to his heritage, and every man to his land.

  Jeremiah 12:16   And it shall come to pass, if they will diligently learn the ways of my people, to swear by my name, The LORD liveth; as they taught my people to swear by Baal; then shall they be built in the midst of my people.

  Jeremiah 12:17   But if they will not obey, I will utterly pluck up and destroy that nation, saith the LORD.

[Sister]

1 hour ago, Ezra said:

Perhaps Marv could have been more diplomatic, but what he stated was correct. The narrative in Daniel does not attribute anything to Satan as such. Ultimately Nebuchadnezzar did give glory to God, and decreed that everyone in his empire should worship the true God:

The king answered unto Daniel, and said, Of a truth it is, that your God is a God of gods, and a Lord of kings, and a revealer of secrets, seeing thou couldest reveal this secret... Then Nebuchadnezzar spake, and said, Blessed be the God of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, who hath sent his angel, and delivered his servants that trusted in him, and have changed the king's word, and yielded their bodies, that they might not serve nor worship any god, except their own God.  Therefore I make a decree, That every people, nation, and language, which speak any thing amiss against the God of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, shall be cut in pieces, and their houses shall be made a dunghill: because there is no other God that can deliver after this sort... Now I Nebuchadnezzar praise and extol and honour the King of heaven, all whose works are truth, and his ways judgment: and those that walk in pride he is able to abase.

 

 

Ezra

I did already point out that Nebuchadnezzar was forgiven in the end, but before that he was filled with pride, just like Satan, because at that time Satan was with him. 

What is your point?

[Sister]

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However, it might be going a tad to far to say that Satan is truly in control of former and future kings because of what scripture says he gives up in exchange for this illusion of control over creation.  Someone who has to give up a throne and power and authority that were given to him to be in control, is not really in control to begin with. 

Esther4:14

I'll explain better Sister.  God is always in control of everything.  God puts all rulers and kings here, ...he brings kingdoms up, and he tears them down.  Nebuchadnezzar was boasting this;

 Daniel 4:30   The king spake, and said, Is not this great Babylon, that I have built for the house of the kingdom by the might of my power, and for the honour of my majesty?
 

After everything that God showed Neb, he was still proud by lifting himself up.  God took Nebuchadnezzar's kingdom away from him for 7 years;

 Daniel 4:33   The same hour was the thing fulfilled upon Nebuchadnezzar: and he was driven from men, and did eat grass as oxen, and his body was wet with the dew of heaven, till his hairs were grown like eagles' feathers, and his nails like birds' claws.

 

Nebuchadnezzar during his height of fame, as with all the other kings before and after him were not ruling their empires according to God's law.  They had their own gods and they prospered in their wickedness.  God let all these empires grow, only to bring them back down to show that the Most High is the one really in charge, and that God put them all there in the first place. 

These kings were not put there to rule according to God's laws, but all of them have been ruling over men with the kingdoms God gave them according to the "the god of this world" ...Satan. His ways.

In some of the prophecies like the ones I showed, when God was addressing the kings, he was really speaking to Satan who was there with those kings at that time when those prophets were sent.  I know you can see this.  These Kings whom Satan has "groomed" are only proud because of Satan's influence.  Satan's kingdom will come to an end soon and God is letting him know that he put him there also because it's in "God's plan", not Satan's.  Satan is just a tool being used at the moment for God's purposes.

 

 

 

[MorningGlory]

On 3/6/2016 at 9:10 AM, Montana Marv said:

Sister

 Another false statement or claim of yours.  Satan has never been in charge.  Look at Daniel 2:37, 38 - You, O king (Nebuchadnezzar) are the king of kings.  The God of Heaven has given you dominion and power and might and glory.   In your hands he has placed mankind and the beasts of the field and the birds of the air.  Wherever they live, he has made you ruler over them all.  You are that head of gold.

Dan 4:2 - It is my pleasure to tell you about the miraculous signs and wonders that the Most High God has performed for me.

Satan does not give credit to God the Most High, he takes credit for himself.

So Sister your words are not true, if fact they are opposite to what the true Scriptures say.  Your words are a fraud.

In Christ

Montana Marv

I had to read your comment twice to make sure I understood and, yes, what you say is exactly right!  I had missed that before for some reason but one only has to read the above passage from Daniel to know that Sister's interpretation is the exact OPPOSITE of what Scripture clearly says.  It's very important that such error be pointed out, both for her and all who are reading this.

[Sister]

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Sister

 Another false statement or claim of yours.  Satan has never been in charge.  Look at Daniel 2:37, 38 - You, O king (Nebuchadnezzar) are the king of kings.  The God of Heaven has given you dominion and power and might and glory.   In your hands he has placed mankind and the beasts of the field and the birds of the air.  Wherever they live, he has made you ruler over them all.  You are that head of gold.

Dan 4:2 - It is my pleasure to tell you about the miraculous signs and wonders that the Most High God has performed for me.

Satan does not give credit to God the Most High, he takes credit for himself.

So Sister your words are not true, if fact they are opposite to what the true Scriptures say.  Your words are a fraud.

In Christ

Montana Marv

Morning Glory.

King Neb was "forgiven" when he said this.  He was  humbled. God had forgiven him because he "realised" something BIG about God, humbled himself and declared it openly.  God blessed his kingdom whilst he was still alive,  not after that, for unlike God's kingdom, no kingdom of man will last forever.

Satan was with King Neb when he was "proud".

I just gave scripture before this post and explained that.

I did not use this verse as an example.  Montanna has made it look as if I said it.

I keep saying again and again, "divide the scriptures".
 

this is what I showed;
 

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When God spoke to the King of Tyrus, was he really speaking to the King of Tyrus?  or what he speaking to who was behind him?

Ezekiel 28:12   Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.

Ezekiel 28:13   Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.

Ezekiel 28:14   Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

 

Was the King of Tyrus in the Eden?, was he full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty?  was he the anointed cherub?

Is God really speaking to Tyrus, or someone else?

[Ezra]

2 hours ago, Sister said:

Ezra

What is your point?

Sister,

My point is that if we are going to handle Scripture properly, we cannot afford to make assumptions which are outside the actual words and contexts.

For example, you have connected "Jordan" to baptized Christians fancifully (in one of your posts above).  There is absolutely nothing in the Bible that allows us to make that connection.  In fact, the baptism of John the Baptizer is quite different from Christian baptism.

[Sister]

cont/....

same as this one here;

Montana Marv

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Same with the Pharoah, King of Egypt, who was God really speaking to?

Ezekiel 29:3   Speak, and say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against thee, Pharaoh king of Egypt, the great dragon that lieth in the midst of his rivers, which hath said, My river is mine own, and I have made it for myself.

Ezekiel 29:4   But I will put hooks in thy jaws, and I will cause the fish of thy rivers to stick unto thy scales, and I will bring thee up out of the midst of thy rivers, and all the fish of thy rivers shall stick unto thy scales.

  Ezekiel 29:5   And I will leave thee thrown into the wilderness, thee and all the fish of thy rivers: thou shalt fall upon the open fields; thou shalt not be brought together, nor gathered: I have given thee for meat to the beasts of the field and to the fowls of the heaven.

 

Was Pharaoh really the great dragon?

Has God used the Pharaoh back then as a magnet for all the fish in the rivers?  Or has he used someone else?  Who is God really speaking to, this is what I am showing with scripture, not just my own ideas.

Are not Satan's armies, all the fish that will stick to him in the end going to be destroyed in an open field?  As a feast for the wild animals?  At Megiddo, and the remnants at the Battle of Gog and Magog?

Revelation 19:17   And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;

 

Ezekiel 39:5   Thou shalt fall upon the open field: for I have spoken it, saith the Lord GOD.

 

 Ezekiel 39:17   And, thou son of man, thus saith the Lord GOD; Speak unto every feathered fowl, and to every beast of the field, Assemble yourselves, and come; gather yourselves on every side to my sacrifice that I do sacrifice for you, even a great sacrifice upon the mountains of Israel, that ye may eat flesh, and drink blood.

  Ezekiel 39:18   Ye shall eat the flesh of the mighty, and drink the blood of the princes of the earth, of rams, of lambs, and of goats, of bullocks, all of them fatlings of Bashan.

  Ezekiel 39:19   And ye shall eat fat till ye be full, and drink blood till ye be drunken, of my sacrifice which I have sacrificed for you.

  Ezekiel 39:20   Thus ye shall be filled at my table with horses and chariots, with mighty men, and with all men of war, saith the Lord GOD.

 

[Sister]

11 minutes ago, Ezra said:

Sister,

My point is that if we are going to handle Scripture properly, we cannot afford to make assumptions which are outside the actual words and contexts.

For example, you have connected "Jordan" to baptized Christians fancifully (in one of your posts above).  There is absolutely nothing in the Bible that allows us to make that connection.  In fact, the baptism of John the Baptizer is quite different from Christian baptism.

 

Ezra

I believe that I have handled scripture properly.  God does not EXPLAIN the understanding, he only gives the scriptures for us to understand.

You don't agree with my understanding that's fine.

You are teaching the others that my understanding is wrong, don't believe.....because you don't understand it?  That's also fine.

There is a pride in Jordan, a big one.