The Church: A Called Out Assembly

[Last Daze]

The New Jerusalem is specifically called the Bride.  To leave it at that may be incomplete but it's not false teaching.  It's a statement of fact.

Last Daze:

If you will kindly note in Rev 21:2 (to which you are probably alluding) the Bible says "PREPARED AS A BRIDE adorned for her husband", not simple "A BRIDE". So that is certainly not a statement of fact.  The words "as a" indicate a metaphorical comparison.  Just as a bride is beautifully adorned at her wedding, the New Jerusalem is adorned outwardly because within the New Jerusalem is the true bride -- "THE BRIDE, THE LAMB'S WIFE" (Rev 21:9). So one must explain that what God is telling us is that a glorious city contains a glorious Bride, which has become the Lamb's Wife.

 

We know that Christ and the ekklesia become one so the New Jerusalem depicts the ekklesia that Christ marries.  Your description above of that ekklesia kind of confuses me

.  I don't necessarily disagree with it, I just don't understand it.

• You said the church is far more than a called out assembly.  Can you elaborate?

The Church is far more than a called out assembly because it has been called out for many Divine and eternal purposes (1) called out and predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son (Rom 8:29), (2) called out "to present it unto Himself a glorious Church [as a Bride], not having spot or wrinkle... holy, and without blemish" (Eph 5:27), (3) called out to become a Royal Priesthood (1 Pet 2:5,9), and (4) called out to live and reign with Christ eternally (Rev 22:3-5).

 

• How do you include the OT saints that preceded Israel in the ekklesia?  How are they an assembly called forth?

In order to understand this we need to go back to Hebrew 11:39,40 and 12:22-24, where we read: And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect... To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect...

So what we see here is “all these” (Old Testament saints) were seen – in God’s foreknowledge – as a part of the general assembly and Church of the firstborn, yet treated as a separate group (the spirits of just men made perfect).  But then Paul says that “they without us should not be made perfect”.  The “us” refers to the Church, and we see that their spirits are perfect, but they do not have glorified bodies. So when will both groups be one as well as perfect in body, soul, and spirit?  At the Resurrection/Rapture.  Therefore the OT saints are eventually part on one Body, which is also the Bride which then becomes the Lamb’s Wife.

Thanks for the reply Ezra.

I wasn't referring to the "as a bride" in Rev 21:2.  I was referring to v9 where the angel said to John that he will show him the bride, the wife of the Lamb.  In the next verse, v10, he showed John the holy city, Jerusalem.  There's no "as" anywhere in there.

I agree with the purposes you stated for the body of Christ being called out.  The common denominator between OT & NT ekklesia as I see it is faith.

It's still a bit ambiguous to me as to how the saints who lived before Israel are considered to be a called out assembly.  I'm not saying that they aren't.  It just doesn't seem to fit the term; maybe a collection of called out individuals?  Since we don't have a lot of detail from way back then I'm inclined to agree with what you've stated.

[WilliamL]

My bio-system crashed, has been taking a while to reboot. Now catching up to one fascinating discussion.

There is a lot of misunderstanding about the 3 heavens/worlds above this material one. They are not 'places,' as we understand that word, they are states of consciousness. The New Jerusalem is a state of collective consciousness, that of the Bride of Christ: it is the collective consciousness of all born-from-above believers. Everything described about its layout and adornment -- crystal and precious stone and gates, etc. -- represent different  attributes of spirituality, such as truth and holiness and devotion, each with its own infinity of degrees and types. 

In the heavens, there is no distance in terms of space, because there is neither space nor time. Distance in the heavens is determined by similarity and oppositeness. For example, the holier the spirit, the closer its proximity to the Divine; while spirits that rebel against God are by their very nature at vast "distances" (in appearance) from Him. Spirits that have an especial love for children are by their nature "closer" to each other, and appear more alike in form, than spirits that have shown to be especially gifted in doctrine. There is an infinity of types and degrees of heavenly societies, each with its own collective appearance.

The three heavens in order consist of 1 (lowest): soul/nephesh/psuche   2 (middle): spirit/ruach/pneuma  3) breath/neshamah/emphusao. Re: 1, "the soul of the flesh is in the blood": this is the level of the seed of Israel, and corresponds to the laver section of the Temple. Re: 2, the Church is a spiritual body: this corresponds to the Holy Place of the Temple. Re: 3, this is the level of the resurrected sons of God, and corresponds to the Most Holy Place of the Temple. Again, all of these things are levels/degrees of spirituality/consciousness. The level of the altar of fleshly sacrifice is that of the nations that live according to the flesh: one must sacrifice one's flesh, and be washed in the laver of water baptism, in order to enter the Holy Sanctuary.

If you keep these things in mind, you will not get caught up in the apparent-only "material" descriptions of the New Jerusalem.

[Last Daze]

My bio-system crashed, has been taking a while to reboot. Now catching up to one fascinating discussion.

There is a lot of misunderstanding about the 3 heavens/worlds above this material one. They are not 'places,' as we understand that word, they are states of consciousness. The New Jerusalem is a state of collective consciousness, that of the Bride of Christ: it is the collective consciousness of all born-from-above believers. Everything described about its layout and adornment -- crystal and precious stone and gates, etc. -- represent different  attributes of spirituality, such as truth and holiness and devotion, each with its own infinity of degrees and types. 

In the heavens, there is no distance in terms of space, because there is neither space nor time. Distance in the heavens is determined by similarity and oppositeness. For example, the holier the spirit, the closer its proximity to the Divine; while spirits that rebel against God are by their very nature at vast "distances" (in appearance) from Him. Spirits that have an especial love for children are by their nature "closer" to each other, and appear more alike in form, than spirits that have shown to be especially gifted in doctrine. There is an infinity of types and degrees of heavenly societies, each with its own collective appearance.

The three heavens in order consist of 1 (lowest): soul/nephesh/psuche   2 (middle): spirit/ruach/pneuma  3) breath/neshamah/emphusao. Re: 1, "the soul of the flesh is in the blood": this is the level of the seed of Israel, and corresponds to the laver section of the Temple. Re: 2, the Church is a spiritual body: this corresponds to the Holy Place of the Temple. Re: 3, this is the level of the resurrected sons of God, and corresponds to the Most Holy Place of the Temple. Again, all of these things are levels/degrees of spirituality/consciousness. The level of the altar of fleshly sacrifice is that of the nations that live according to the flesh: one must sacrifice one's flesh, and be washed in the laver of water baptism, in order to enter the Holy Sanctuary.

If you keep these things in mind, you will not get caught up in the apparent-only "material" descriptions of the New Jerusalem.

Hah, a "bio-system" crash.  Will have to remember that one.

Very interesting correlation!  Will take some time and ponder that.

 

[Last Daze]

My bio-system crashed, has been taking a while to reboot. Now catching up to one fascinating discussion.

There is a lot of misunderstanding about the 3 heavens/worlds above this material one. They are not 'places,' as we understand that word, they are states of consciousness. The New Jerusalem is a state of collective consciousness, that of the Bride of Christ: it is the collective consciousness of all born-from-above believers. Everything described about its layout and adornment -- crystal and precious stone and gates, etc. -- represent different  attributes of spirituality, such as truth and holiness and devotion, each with its own infinity of degrees and types. 

In the heavens, there is no distance in terms of space, because there is neither space nor time. Distance in the heavens is determined by similarity and oppositeness. For example, the holier the spirit, the closer its proximity to the Divine; while spirits that rebel against God are by their very nature at vast "distances" (in appearance) from Him. Spirits that have an especial love for children are by their nature "closer" to each other, and appear more alike in form, than spirits that have shown to be especially gifted in doctrine. There is an infinity of types and degrees of heavenly societies, each with its own collective appearance.

The three heavens in order consist of 1 (lowest): soul/nephesh/psuche   2 (middle): spirit/ruach/pneuma  3) breath/neshamah/emphusao. Re: 1, "the soul of the flesh is in the blood": this is the level of the seed of Israel, and corresponds to the laver section of the Temple. Re: 2, the Church is a spiritual body: this corresponds to the Holy Place of the Temple. Re: 3, this is the level of the resurrected sons of God, and corresponds to the Most Holy Place of the Temple. Again, all of these things are levels/degrees of spirituality/consciousness. The level of the altar of fleshly sacrifice is that of the nations that live according to the flesh: one must sacrifice one's flesh, and be washed in the laver of water baptism, in order to enter the Holy Sanctuary.

If you keep these things in mind, you will not get caught up in the apparent-only "material" descriptions of the New Jerusalem.

A couple of questions:

• does the lowest heaven pertain only to Israel or to all mankind, of which Israel is a called out subset?
• the middle heaven pertains to only the called out NT body of Christ?
• the highest heaven is for all who are resurrected at Christ's coming, the called out OT & NT saints?

Just trying to clarify.

[WilliamL]

 

 

A couple of questions:

• does the lowest heaven pertain only to Israel or to all mankind, of which Israel is a called out subset?
• the middle heaven pertains to only the called out NT body of Christ?
• the highest heaven is for all who are resurrected at Christ's coming, the called out OT & NT saints?

Just trying to clarify.

The lowest heaven pertains to all those who keep the natural-world 10 Commandments given to Israel; with plenty of grace applied, of course.

The level above that pertains to those who have true faith in Jesus, and are led by the Holy Spirit; again, with grace applied.

The highest heaven pertains to those who are able to dwell within the Light of the Presence/Face of God (Rev. 6:16, etc.), and not turn their faces away out of shame because of unwashed/unrepented sins.

In sum, the heavens represent degrees of holiness: soul, spirit, and very breath. The flesh must be purified by the soul [taught via the Sinai Covenant], the soul must be purified by the Spirit [brought via the Last Supper Covenant], and the spirit must be purified by the emanated breath-light of the Holy One, when the Lord appears in the light of his glory.