When is Satan/Dragon/Devil thrown out of Heaven

[thereselittleflower]

16 minutes ago, enoob57 said:

No they just confirm that the Scripture is the only source to draw from... thus Scripture to Scripture or else disobedience by drawing from
somewhere else...

At least we agree there is no such post.

And, it is not surprising we disagree on what the scriptures say in this regards.

 

[thereselittleflower]

4 hours ago, Reinitin said:

2 peter 1:19So we have the prophetic word made more sure, to which you do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star arises in your hearts. 20But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation, 21for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God. If that is not telling you the source of truth is the scripture and the Holy Spirit, not our reasoning. If you want to understand scripture go to scripture and the Lord. The actual quote "scripture interprets scripture"comes from a hermeneutical rule. 2 peter 1. confirms No one can go to a better source then scripture and the Lord if they seek the truth.

So you said

•  "we must let Scripture interpret Scripture"

So I give you an example of scripture interpreting scripture, a parallel between the Temple in Ezekiel and the Temple in Revelation, and that as the city and temple had been destroyed before Ezekiel's vision, just as the city and temple had been destroyed before John's vision, this is evidence that the Temple did not need to be standing when John penned those words.

You respond with quoting Peter that no scripture is of private interpretation.

1)  that is a nonsensical response to what I said.

2)  this response begs the question:   Why are you then privately interpreting scripture?

 

Noting that you condemned the use of reasoning to arrive at the truth of a matter:

 

• Quote

  the source of truth is the scripture and the Holy Spirit, not our reasoning.

   

Why are you using your reasoning powers then?

You are reasoning that because the destruction of the Temple is not mentioned in Revelation that this must mean it was still standing and so John had to have written in before 70 AD.   

There is nothing in the scriptures that state the temple was still standing.    You used your REASONING - which you just condemned above - to come to that conclusion.

In response I gave you scripture interpreting scripture to show your REASONING was unsound.

 

So, why are you permitted to use reasoning, but those who disagree with you are  not?

Why the hypocrisy?

 

 

 

[BlindSeeker]

2 hours ago, MorningGlory said:

Hmmm.....I didn't think Catholic bashing was allowed on WCF. 

It's not, I didn't.

[thereselittleflower]

 

1 hour ago, MorningGlory said:

I don't adhere to any Catholic doctrine but I don't believe we should bash other believers; and believers they are.

 

[BlindSeeker]

2 hours ago, enoob57 said:

No they just confirm that the Scripture is the only source to draw from... thus Scripture to Scripture or else disobedience by drawing from
somewhere else...

There's has been so much scripture provided by several people to verify that "we must let Scripture interpret Scripture" and yet some will persistently argue that point simply because it isn’t stated so in the Bible verbatim. They get so incensed that you get the feeling they would almost run off and gather up others and get the matches, gather the wood, and bring the rope so they can tie you to the stake and then burn you over questioning the word “Trinity” or for rejecting of the doctrine of “transubstantiation,” that is if they wouldn’t get banned from WB…

Now, after whoever has had whatever reaction to that… please understand that I am simply showing that not everything that people believe to be true is stated in the Bible exactly the way people often state it. It doesn’t mean it’s false anymore than it means it is true. For like it has been proven here with multiple posts, scripture must provide the context and interpretation for scripture and any interpretation must not be in conflict with any other precept of scripture.

If you haven’t seen and learned here on WB that the truth can be spoken and the pharisaical religious types can twist and argue scriptures to reject it as a lie, well, you must be hanging out in chat or something talking about cooking or sports.

However, I have learned that those here who do speak the truth, they can present it line upon line, precept upon precept, to someone entangled in a theological stronghold and they will call you what they themselves are; deceived and a false prophet or teacher. They will rebut with all sorts of extra biblical hearsays as if they were throwing stones at you to “prove” their point. There words won’t be season with grace for there is no love in their hearts. They are here solely to disrupt the truth and sow confusion and discredit godliness and virtue with their bad fruit.

For this reason, first by His spirit through the prophets and then in His own conceived in and born of a virgin flesh and blood body, Jesus explained that “they see not… hear not” because they have hardened their hearts and stiffen their necks.

Isaiah 6:9 - And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not.

Isaiah 32:3 - And the eyes of them that see shall not be dim, and the ears of them that hear shall hearken.

Jeremiah 5:21 - Hear now this, O foolish people, and without understanding; which have eyes, and see not; which have ears, and hear not:

Ezekiel 12:2 - Son of man, thou dwellest in the midst of a rebellious house, which have eyes to see, and see not; they have ears to hear, and hear not: for they are a rebellious house.

Matthew 13:13 - Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.

Matthew 13:14 - And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:

John 12:40 - He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

 

 

[thereselittleflower]

It is correct to a degree to say:

• "  scripture must provide the context and interpretation for scripture and any interpretation must not be in conflict with any other precept of scripture. "

(I say to a degree, for the scripture does not always provide the context in the way we seek, but by going to outside sources we learn more of the contextual culture, people, events of the time that did not need to be included in the scripture written to people of that time).

Which then creates quite a conundrum for one who claims any interpretation must not be in conflict with any other precept of scripture,  but then says such things as:

• Everything that is, to the  -the farthest sun, most remote black hole, in the galaxy, in the universe is within God's very being.
• Your own body teaches you if there is a bacteria if, there is an intrusion, if there is a virus your own body teaches you that it must go to war with that thing for the preserving of the health of whole thing in itself
  God will deal with everything in Him that is an offense to Him

 

• Hallowed Be Thy Name

  https://gatesofthecity.wordpress.com/category/uncategorized/

 

Thus claiming evil exists as an infection within God, which needs to be attacked and dealt with to preserve the health of the whole thing - God - in itself.  So, according to this, God must and will destroy everything IN Him that is an offense.

This means that which is offensive to God, ie evil, darkness, sin, is IN GOD.

Yet scripture says:

 

• 1 John 1:5

  This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

   

  James 1:17
  Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows.

   

  1 Timothy 6:16
  who alone is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen or can see. To him be honor and might forever. Amen.

 

• Note that we are not told that God is a light but that He is light. Light is part of His essence, as is love (1 John 4:8).The message is that God is completely, unreservedly, absolutely holy, with no admixture of sin, no taint of iniquity, and no hint of injustice.
• http://www.gotquestions.org/God-is-light.html

 

God is not some infinite being battling sin in his being like an infection.

 

This is an example of the results possible when one relies on their private understanding and ignores scriptures which contradict their position.   

 

 

 

[ezekiel]

Seals, Trumpet, and Bowls

The last are the three 7's starts with the Bowl

Revelation 16:17

And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.

 

Then the Trumpet

 

Revelation 11:15

And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

 

Then a moment of prayer for the lost.

 

Revelation 8:1

And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.

 

What happens first. The sixes.

 

Revelation 16:12

And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared

Revelation 9:14

Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates.

Revelation 6:12

And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

 

In this manner til the White Horse rules.

 

 

 

 

[Reinitin]

6 hours ago, BlindSeeker said:

 

Sad thing is many will see this as Catholic basing when it’s not and just get angry and cry "Foul, Foul!!!".

In truth it truly is addressing those things that are contrary to scripture and sound doctrine.

Sadly, there many people in all denominations are entrenched in their theological strongholds that their church leaders have taught them. These are they who spend their very-religious years ever learning and yet never coming to a knowledge of the truth. These are they who in great surprise will one day declare in disbelief "But but, but, Lord, Lord.... didn't we....?"

So please, when you pick on the United Pentecostal, the Seventh Day Adventist, the Church of the Whoever isn't like Us and freely call them all false teachers and prophets... support your position with scripture, stick to scripture, and learn to stand there on... regardless who taught you whatever.

The   B  I  B  L  E,  yes that's the book for me. I stand alone on the word of God, Sola Scripture.

 

I'm not bashing Catholics I'm disagreeing with their leaderships teachings:)

[Reinitin]

2 hours ago, BlindSeeker said:

There's has been so much scripture provided by several people to verify that "we must let Scripture interpret Scripture" and yet some will persistently argue that point simply because it isn’t stated so in the Bible verbatim. They get so incensed that you get the feeling they would almost run off and gather up others and get the matches, gather the wood, and bring the rope so they can tie you to the stake and then burn you over questioning the word “Trinity” or for rejecting of the doctrine of “transubstantiation,” that is if they wouldn’t get banned from WB…

Now, after whoever has had whatever reaction to that… please understand that I am simply showing that not everything that people believe to be true is stated in the Bible exactly the way people often state it. It doesn’t mean it’s false anymore than it means it is true. For like it has been proven here with multiple posts, scripture must provide the context and interpretation for scripture and any interpretation must not be in conflict with any other precept of scripture.

If you haven’t seen and learned here on WB that the truth can be spoken and the pharisaical religious types can twist and argue scriptures to reject it as a lie, well, you must be hanging out in chat or something talking about cooking or sports.

However, I have learned that those here who do speak the truth, they can present it line upon line, precept upon precept, to someone entangled in a theological stronghold and they will call you what they themselves are; deceived and a false prophet or teacher. They will rebut with all sorts of extra biblical hearsays as if they were throwing stones at you to “prove” their point. There words won’t be season with grace for there is no love in their hearts. They are here solely to disrupt the truth and sow confusion and discredit godliness and virtue with their bad fruit.

For this reason, first by His spirit through the prophets and then in His own conceived in and born of a virgin flesh and blood body, Jesus explained that “they see not… hear not” because they have hardened their hearts and stiffen their necks.

Isaiah 6:9 - And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not.

Isaiah 32:3 - And the eyes of them that see shall not be dim, and the ears of them that hear shall hearken.

Jeremiah 5:21 - Hear now this, O foolish people, and without understanding; which have eyes, and see not; which have ears, and hear not:

Ezekiel 12:2 - Son of man, thou dwellest in the midst of a rebellious house, which have eyes to see, and see not; they have ears to hear, and hear not: for they are a rebellious house.

Matthew 13:13 - Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.

Matthew 13:14 - And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:

John 12:40 - He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

 

 

I don't mind when something I say comes out wrong and someone corrects me.

[Reinitin]

5 hours ago, thereselittleflower said:

And you were there?  You saw it?  You saw what happened?

Someone who hasn't seen Laodicea could say and make others believe it is reasonable to assume it did rebuild that fast. 

 

 

In Turkey they have a beautiful excavation of Laodicea, If you tour it they tell you the History as you tour it. They tell you and show you how they were at the cross roads of all trade routes and how they rebuilt after the earth quake and refused help from Rome. They were a banking center and had gold in abundance. They had an eye sauve there that was sold all over the world. It was the trade center of the world. You posted some one said they couldn't of rebuilt after the earthquake, If you go there they have a different witness of their history.