Creation and an Old Earth - One Possibility

[JohnD]

It always fascinates me when people try to put God in a box

Question....what bible scripture or rule says that everything God creates has to be brand spanking new?

Adam was created as a full grown man, mature in every way.   he was not made a baby.  If you were to look at him on day one, you might have though he was 25 or 30. because God made him that way

Eve was the same way, God did not create Eve and present her to Adam as a baby....but as a WOMAN  (Whoa Man!)

All of the animals were similarly created fully mature.....

So how big of a stretch is it to believe that God created the earth already old.....4 billion years old, with a history in place (including those pesky fossils), ready to support life, ready in all ways for Act 1 of His grand play?

Science teaches us that young planets cannot support life, that they are too violent , too devoid of life.  God would not plop us a new planet and expect us to live. No He would provide an environment that was run in and ready to support life..... So why would it take 4 billion years for God to do that, when He could just speak a 4 billion year old universe into being.

So in this scenario, Yes the universe is 4 billion years old, all of science would register that.... because that is the way God made it....6000 years ago.

 

Many things are given to us in life as a test....mostly about to determine our pride and humility. To me, this is a perfect test.  God says He made it in 6 days 6000 years ago by speaking it into being.....man says it exploded into existence and developed over 4 billion years.   Who are you going to believe.

This is really only a problem if you can't think outside the box you are trying to put God In.

But God....can do anything....even causing those  who are "professing to be wise, (to) become fools" Romans 1:22

 

Well everything was created "brand spanking new."   But everything was created functionally mature.    God did not make the earth 4 billion years old, 6,000 years ago. That doesn't make sense.  There is no reconciliation between science (which needs an old earth to make Evolution plausible) and the Bible which says that God created the earth in six, 24 hour days.  Believe one or the other.  We cannot have both.

Good grief, Shiloh, the OP was saying essentially what you said. So it does make sense. You are just knit-picking where there is nothing to knit-pick.

Science and the Bible ARE reconciled EASILY, in fact the founding scientists of science were Bible believing Christians. So you are wrong here too.

Science and the (poor) theory of  Evolution are the ones in conflict... rack up another point against your reply...

 

 

Edited November 7, 2015 by JohnD

[JohnD]

One cannot combine the two belief systems (creationism and macro evolution) even though sincere Christian minds try (Dr. Hugh Ross, for one, comes to mind).

Creationism and macro evolution conflict and contradict the other. Macro evolution has no evidence of transubstantiation, and finds itself at odds with the very method of science. Creationism is a documented eyewitness account (dictated to his scribe Moses).

Macro evolution has survived to date only because of

1. the sin nature of humanity (which chooses to believe a lie rather than  the truth)
2. the blind faith of those who choose to believe in it
3. and the relentless bullying tactics in the media, education, and scientific communities

MICRO evolution is another way of saying development or adaptation within a species. So be ready for the sleight of hand attempts to use this as proof of "evolution" [sic].

MACRO evolution is the poorly concocted theory that one species comes from another... comes from another... and ultimately comes from a primordial soup which is the common ancestor of all animals, plants, and marine life. There is no evidence to support this theory. None whatsoever. Not even in the fossil record. In addition to bullying any and all opposition to this religion, the documented fraud and their cover ups and numerous. To name just a few, Piltdown Man, Nebraska Man / Family, Lucy,  were proven frauds.

The fossil record is not the problem devotees to the religion of evolution claim it is. For one thing, fossils do not form slowly over great periods of time but rapidly. Fossils are created in lab experiments in high schools all the time. They are actually the record of the animals and marine life that were destroyed by the flood of Noah trapped in the sedimentary layers of that global catastrophe.

The most accurate method of dating the fossils is carbon 14, ¹⁴C, or radiocarbon, is a radioactive isotope of carbon with a nucleus containing 6 protons and 8 neutrons. Its presence in organic materials is the basis of the radiocarbon dating method pioneered by Willard Libby and colleagues (1949) to date archaeological, geological and hydrogeological samples. And it is accurate only to approximately 5,000 years ago. Another fraud perpetrated on humanity is the misuse of this dating method in the mathematical speculative conjecture presented by macro evolutionists as legitimate dating. The late Dr. A.E. Wilder-Smith likened this practice to a seven-year-old asking how tall he was ten years earlier... using his imagination as proof he existed three years before he was born.

Fossils are also dating fraudulently by the layers of strata they are found in... which the layers themselves are dated by the fossils that are found in them... seriously.

[JohnD]

Barry Setterfield and Trevor Norman have been soundly trounced by the macro evolution bullies for their paper on the decay of c.

They simply showed how the scientific observations over hundreds of years themselves indicate the speed of light is slowing down beyond the margin of error of the increasingly improved ability to make such observations. 

These bullies and their stooges were merciless. They invoked one straw man argument after another. Claiming the size of the universe proves that it is 13.8 billion years old.

Then Hubble Telescope presented these bullies with a real problem. The universe is 46 billion light years in every direction. For light to have traveled all that way in only 13 billion years means it had to be faster in the past. And using the cosine squared curve presented in Setterfield's and Norman's work (which is way way over my head) the speed of light could have been as much as 10 million times faster (some 10 thousand years ago) than it is today.

So there is nothing to prove the universe and earth are older than 7 - 10 thousand years old.

       

[Guest shiloh357]

It always fascinates me when people try to put God in a box

Question....what bible scripture or rule says that everything God creates has to be brand spanking new?

Adam was created as a full grown man, mature in every way.   he was not made a baby.  If you were to look at him on day one, you might have though he was 25 or 30. because God made him that way

Eve was the same way, God did not create Eve and present her to Adam as a baby....but as a WOMAN  (Whoa Man!)

All of the animals were similarly created fully mature.....

So how big of a stretch is it to believe that God created the earth already old.....4 billion years old, with a history in place (including those pesky fossils), ready to support life, ready in all ways for Act 1 of His grand play?

Science teaches us that young planets cannot support life, that they are too violent , too devoid of life.  God would not plop us a new planet and expect us to live. No He would provide an environment that was run in and ready to support life..... So why would it take 4 billion years for God to do that, when He could just speak a 4 billion year old universe into being.

So in this scenario, Yes the universe is 4 billion years old, all of science would register that.... because that is the way God made it....6000 years ago.

 

Many things are given to us in life as a test....mostly about to determine our pride and humility. To me, this is a perfect test.  God says He made it in 6 days 6000 years ago by speaking it into being.....man says it exploded into existence and developed over 4 billion years.   Who are you going to believe.

This is really only a problem if you can't think outside the box you are trying to put God In.

But God....can do anything....even causing those  who are "professing to be wise, (to) become fools" Romans 1:22

 

Well everything was created "brand spanking new."   But everything was created functionally mature.    God did not make the earth 4 billion years old, 6,000 years ago. That doesn't make sense.  There is no reconciliation between science (which needs an old earth to make Evolution plausible) and the Bible which says that God created the earth in six, 24 hour days.  Believe one or the other.  We cannot have both.

Good grief, Shiloh, the OP was saying essentially what you said. So it does make sense. You are just knit-picking where there is nothing to knit-pick.

Science and the Bible ARE reconciled EASILY, in fact the founding scientists of science were Bible believing Christians. So you are wrong here too.

Science and the (poor) theory of  Evolution are the ones in conflict... rack up another point against your reply...

 

 

No, the OP was making a point that was completely irrational, saying that God made a universe that appears  4 Billion years old and yet only 6,000 years old.  It isn't even logical to argue that.   You really need to work on your reading comprehension.

I am not saying that the Bible and science cannot be reconciled.   But the  notion of an old earth, pre-dates science.   The entire notion of an earth that is  4 billion years old is the result of an evolutionary mindset that understands that we need a very, very old earth in order to accommodate Evolution.   OEC is a compromise with the world and with a godless evolutionary theory.

[FresnoJoe]

Barry Setterfield and Trevor Norman have been soundly trounced by the macro evolution bullies for their paper on the decay of c.

They simply showed how the scientific observations over hundreds of years themselves indicatethe speed of light is slowing down beyond the margin of error of the increasingly improved ability to make such observations. 

These bullies and their stooges were merciless. They invoked one straw man argument after another. Claiming the size of the universe proves that it is 13.8 billion years old.

Then Hubble Telescope presented these bullies with a real problem. The universe is 46 billion light years in every direction. For light to have traveled all that way in only 13 billion years means it had to be faster in the past. And using the cosine squared curve presented in Setterfield's and Norman's work (which is way way over my head) the speed of light could have been as much as 10 million times faster (some 10 thousand years ago) than it is today.

So there is nothing to prove the universe and earth are older than 7 - 10 thousand years old.

There Is No Time For Gaps

God called the light day, and the darkness He called night. And there was evening and there was morning, one day. Genesis 1:5 (New American Standard Bible)

God called the expanse heaven. And there was evening and there was morning, a second day. Genesis 1:8 (New American Standard Bible)

There was evening and there was morning, a third day. Genesis 1:13 (New American Standard Bible)

There was evening and there was morning, a fourth day. Genesis 1:19 (New American Standard Bible)

There was evening and there was morning, a fifth day. Genesis 1:23 (New American Standard Bible)

God saw all that He had made, and behold, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day. Genesis 1:31 (New American Standard Bible)

Nor Billions Of Years

Jesus was about thirty years old when he began his public ministry.
Jesus was known as the son of Joseph.
Joseph was the son of Heli.

Heli was the son of Matthat.
Matthat was the son of Levi.
Levi was the son of Melki.
Melki was the son of Jannai.
Jannai was the son of Joseph.

Joseph was the son of Mattathias.
Mattathias was the son of Amos.
Amos was the son of Nahum.
Nahum was the son of Esli.
Esli was the son of Naggai.

Naggai was the son of Maath.
Maath was the son of Mattathias.
Mattathias was the son of Semein.
Semein was the son of Josech.
Josech was the son of Joda.

Joda was the son of Joanan.
Joanan was the son of Rhesa.
Rhesa was the son of Zerubbabel.
Zerubbabel was the son of Shealtiel.
Shealtiel was the son of Neri.

Neri was the son of Melki.
Melki was the son of Addi.
Addi was the son of Cosam.
Cosam was the son of Elmadam.
Elmadam was the son of Er

Er was the son of Joshua.
Joshua was the son of Eliezer.
Eliezer was the son of Jorim.
Jorim was the son of Matthat.
Matthat was the son of Levi.

Levi was the son of Simeon.
Simeon was the son of Judah.
Judah was the son of Joseph.
Joseph was the son of Jonam.
Jonam was the son of Eliakim.

Eliakim was the son of Melea.
Melea was the son of Menna.
Menna was the son of Mattatha.
Mattatha was the son of Nathan.
Nathan was the son of David.

David was the son of Jesse.
Jesse was the son of Obed.
Obed was the son of Boaz.
Boaz was the son of Salmon.
Salmon was the son of Nahshon.

Nahshon was the son of Amminadab.
Amminadab was the son of Admin.
Admin was the son of Arni.
Arni was the son of Hezron.
Hezron was the son of Perez.
Perez was the son of Judah.

Judah was the son of Jacob.
Jacob was the son of Isaac.
Isaac was the son of Abraham.
Abraham was the son of Terah.
Terah was the son of Nahor.

Nahor was the son of Serug.
Serug was the son of Reu.
Reu was the son of Peleg.
Peleg was the son of Eber.
Eber was the son of Shelah.

Shelah was the son of Cainan.
Cainan was the son of Arphaxad.
Arphaxad was the son of Shem.
Shem was the son of Noah.
Noah was the son of Lamech.

Lamech was the son of Methuselah.
Methuselah was the son of Enoch.
Enoch was the son of Jared.
Jared was the son of Mahalalel.
Mahalalel was the son of Kenan.

Kenan was the son of Enosh.
Enosh was the son of Seth.
Seth was the son of Adam
Adam was the son of God. Luke 3:23-38 (New Living Translation)

Just Jesus

But God proves His love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Romans 5:8 (Berean Study Bible)

And His Salvation

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16 (American King James Version)

Or Not

But God shows his anger from heaven against all sinful, wicked people who suppress the truth by their wickedness. They know the truth about God because he has made it obvious to them. For ever since the world was created, people have seen the earth and sky. Through everything God made, they can clearly see his invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature. So they have no excuse for not knowing God.

Yes, they knew God, but they wouldn’t worship him as God or even give him thanks. And they began to think up foolish ideas of what God was like. As a result, their minds became dark and confused. Claiming to be wise, they instead became utter fools. Romans 1:18-22 (New Living Translation)

Love, Your Brother Joe

[JohnD]

It always fascinates me when people try to put God in a box

Question....what bible scripture or rule says that everything God creates has to be brand spanking new?

Adam was created as a full grown man, mature in every way.   he was not made a baby.  If you were to look at him on day one, you might have though he was 25 or 30. because God made him that way

Eve was the same way, God did not create Eve and present her to Adam as a baby....but as a WOMAN  (Whoa Man!)

All of the animals were similarly created fully mature.....

So how big of a stretch is it to believe that God created the earth already old.....4 billion years old, with a history in place (including those pesky fossils), ready to support life, ready in all ways for Act 1 of His grand play?

Science teaches us that young planets cannot support life, that they are too violent , too devoid of life.  God would not plop us a new planet and expect us to live. No He would provide an environment that was run in and ready to support life..... So why would it take 4 billion years for God to do that, when He could just speak a 4 billion year old universe into being.

So in this scenario, Yes the universe is 4 billion years old, all of science would register that.... because that is the way God made it....6000 years ago.

 

Many things are given to us in life as a test....mostly about to determine our pride and humility. To me, this is a perfect test.  God says He made it in 6 days 6000 years ago by speaking it into being.....man says it exploded into existence and developed over 4 billion years.   Who are you going to believe.

This is really only a problem if you can't think outside the box you are trying to put God In.

But God....can do anything....even causing those  who are "professing to be wise, (to) become fools" Romans 1:22

 

Well everything was created "brand spanking new."   But everything was created functionally mature.    God did not make the earth 4 billion years old, 6,000 years ago. That doesn't make sense.  There is no reconciliation between science (which needs an old earth to make Evolution plausible) and the Bible which says that God created the earth in six, 24 hour days.  Believe one or the other.  We cannot have both.

Good grief, Shiloh, the OP was saying essentially what you said. So it does make sense. You are just knit-picking where there is nothing to knit-pick.

Science and the Bible ARE reconciled EASILY, in fact the founding scientists of science were Bible believing Christians. So you are wrong here too.

Science and the (poor) theory of  Evolution are the ones in conflict... rack up another point against your reply...

 

 

No, the OP was making a point that was completely irrational, saying that God made a universe that appears  4 Billion years old and yet only 6,000 years old.  It isn't even logical to argue that.   You really need to work on your reading comprehension.

I am not saying that the Bible and science cannot be reconciled.   But the  notion of an old earth, pre-dates science.   The entire notion of an earth that is  4 billion years old is the result of an evolutionary mindset that understands that we need a very, very old earth in order to accommodate Evolution.   OEC is a compromise with the world and with a godless evolutionary theory.

For the sake of the integrity of this important topic and the answers creationists need to have, I will refrain from going point to point with you, Shiloh. 

The readers may also determine for themselves which of the two of us (you and I) is right.

I ask for those reasons that we both call a truce here so the thread is not derailed or closed.

[Guest shiloh357]

It always fascinates me when people try to put God in a box

Question....what bible scripture or rule says that everything God creates has to be brand spanking new?

Adam was created as a full grown man, mature in every way.   he was not made a baby.  If you were to look at him on day one, you might have though he was 25 or 30. because God made him that way

Eve was the same way, God did not create Eve and present her to Adam as a baby....but as a WOMAN  (Whoa Man!)

All of the animals were similarly created fully mature.....

So how big of a stretch is it to believe that God created the earth already old.....4 billion years old, with a history in place (including those pesky fossils), ready to support life, ready in all ways for Act 1 of His grand play?

Science teaches us that young planets cannot support life, that they are too violent , too devoid of life.  God would not plop us a new planet and expect us to live. No He would provide an environment that was run in and ready to support life..... So why would it take 4 billion years for God to do that, when He could just speak a 4 billion year old universe into being.

So in this scenario, Yes the universe is 4 billion years old, all of science would register that.... because that is the way God made it....6000 years ago.

 

Many things are given to us in life as a test....mostly about to determine our pride and humility. To me, this is a perfect test.  God says He made it in 6 days 6000 years ago by speaking it into being.....man says it exploded into existence and developed over 4 billion years.   Who are you going to believe.

This is really only a problem if you can't think outside the box you are trying to put God In.

But God....can do anything....even causing those  who are "professing to be wise, (to) become fools" Romans 1:22

 

Well everything was created "brand spanking new."   But everything was created functionally mature.    God did not make the earth 4 billion years old, 6,000 years ago. That doesn't make sense.  There is no reconciliation between science (which needs an old earth to make Evolution plausible) and the Bible which says that God created the earth in six, 24 hour days.  Believe one or the other.  We cannot have both.

Good grief, Shiloh, the OP was saying essentially what you said. So it does make sense. You are just knit-picking where there is nothing to knit-pick.

Science and the Bible ARE reconciled EASILY, in fact the founding scientists of science were Bible believing Christians. So you are wrong here too.

Science and the (poor) theory of  Evolution are the ones in conflict... rack up another point against your reply...

 

 

No, the OP was making a point that was completely irrational, saying that God made a universe that appears  4 Billion years old and yet only 6,000 years old.  It isn't even logical to argue that.   You really need to work on your reading comprehension.

I am not saying that the Bible and science cannot be reconciled.   But the  notion of an old earth, pre-dates science.   The entire notion of an earth that is  4 billion years old is the result of an evolutionary mindset that understands that we need a very, very old earth in order to accommodate Evolution.   OEC is a compromise with the world and with a godless evolutionary theory.

For the sake of the integrity of this important topic and the answers creationists need to have, I will refrain from going point to point with you, Shiloh. 

The readers may also determine for themselves which of the two of us (you and I) is right.

I ask for those reasons that we both call a truce here so the thread is not derailed or closed.

Or maybe it's because you actually did misunderstand the OP and can't admit it.

[enoob57]

I would have to side with Shiloh on this one as making something appear something that it is not would be fraudulent at best...
Scientific abilities just are not able, in the present, to validate the truth of God and what He has done!

[JohnD]

I would have to side with Shiloh on this one as making something appear something that it is not would be fraudulent at best...
Scientific abilities just are not able, in the present, to validate the truth of God and what He has done!

So Adam fully grown on day one is fraud?

[JohnD]

The point was that what now seems to be a 13.8 billion year old universe was created not "old" but rather fully functional / mature / complete.