DO YOU BELIEVE ITS OKAY TO EAT PORK, AS A BELIEVER IN GOD ?

[Guest shiloh357]

1 hour ago, Salty said:

Lot of absolutist thinking there which defies common sense. If someone isn't walking by The Spirit then they will be breaking the laws Paul categorized in Galatians 5. Read it; it's Christian doctrine they forgot to tell you in your Church system. So this is not my teaching, it's Apostle Paul's.

Furthermore, I made it specific in my post that eating outside God's health laws is NOT a Salvation issue. But it is STILL a HEALTH ISSUE FOR OUR FLESH BODIES.

In other words, if you don't care whether or not your flesh body is healthy, then go ahead, eat all the junk food, pork, shell fish, processed foods, etc., you want. But your body won't be as healthy, as doctors well know and will tell you. One might get by with it while young, but when they get older it will start telling on them.

 

But you have not established that the dietary laws laid down in Leviticus are obligatory to the Church.   Nowhere did Paul tell any Churches that they were under obligation to abide by those laws.   Salvation issue or not, the point is that you are assuming what needs to be proven.   You are assuming an obligation on NT believers that the Bible doesn't indicate.

Nothing in Scripture tells us that the dietary laws have anything to do with healthy eating.   You can eat a kosher diet that is still high in sugar, fat and cholesterol.   You don't have to eat pork or shellfish to be unhealthy.   There is nothing in the dietary laws that prohibits what you called "junk food."   Potato chips, nachos with extra cheese, cake, pie, hot fudge sundaes are all in compliance with God's dietary laws in Leviticus.  

So, your argument here is really weak.

[Guest shiloh357]

1 hour ago, Salty said:

Here's an example of how this subject is mistaught from the New Testament in many Churches today:

1 Tim 4:4-5
4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:

5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.
KJV

That is what they will quote... leaving out what Paul said below just before that:

1 Tim 4:3
3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
KJV

Which meats did God create to be received for man? That is not just about prayers of thanks for the meat, for all food God provides us we are to give Him thanksgiving.

The meats God created to be received are listed in Deut.14. Pork is not on the list because God created it to be scavenger to cleanse the earth. Nor is shell fish, for they are scavengers to help cleanse the sea. Same for catfish.

But the synagogue of Satan doesn't like this revelation, since it could interrupt their businesses of selling unhealthy food products to us Gentiles, as they want to destroy God's people by telling them it's alright to eat anything they want. And many of God's people are so ignorant they will let them do it to them.

 

Except that the Bible doesn't say that God did not create pigs not to be eaten.  He forbade them to Israel, not to anyone else.  There is not one place where Gentile Christians are forbidden to eat pork or any other animal for that matter. 

[Remnantrob]

I'd have to say I partially agree with Shiloh on this one.....except the part of it being false doctrine...lol  If you're going to say that God requires the Christian to observe the dietary laws then it does become an issue of salvation since James 4:17 says:

Quote

¹⁷ Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

So you either have to let that one slide and accept that is of no consequence whatever you eat or drink or be labeled with the heretics that promote this type of christian living. 

[Guest shiloh357]

4 minutes ago, inchrist said:

Complete nonsense....gentile Christians were going to synagogues....no where does Paul or the council make a ruling not to follow any of the dietary laws taught in the synagogues

In the earliest days, Gentile believers did go to the synagogues.  But it didn't stay that way.  In fact, by the time we get to Acts 15 churches were already being established apart from the synagogues.   And there are no instructions to churches to abstain from pork or any other kind of meat.   You simply do not have that command given in the NT.

[Guest shiloh357]

20 minutes ago, Remnantrob said:

I'd have to say I partially agree with Shiloh on this one.....except the part of it being false doctrine...lol  If you're going to say that God requires the Christian to observe the dietary laws then it does become an issue of salvation since James 4:17 says:

So you either have to let that one slide and accept that is of no consequence whatever you eat or drink or be labeled with the heretics that promote this type of christian living. 

No one is a heretic for choosing to follow the dietary commandments.   The heresy and false teaching comes in when you start telling Christians that it is a commandment from God to them and that they are in disobedience if they eat pork or whatever.   That is one reason why the SDA is a cult.  Cults always try to add to the Bible and couch salvation in terms of works.

[Guest shiloh357]

Just now, inchrist said:

And yet those early churches were Guided by the Jewish council

You have no evidence to side on the opposite with your following conclusion that there was a change

 

What you present is pure opinion

Present, from Paul's epistles, any instruction to the churches that they were to abstain from pork.

Secondly, we know that by the early to mid 2nd century Christians were not meeting in synagogues.  There is no evidence, post 1st century, that Gentile Christians were attending synagogues. 

The Jewish council laid down the four basic rules pertaining to what was required for table fellowship with Jews.    They did not put forth an edict that forbade pork to Gentile believers under any circumstance.  Paul allowed Gentile believers to eat meat sacrificed to idols if they chose to do so and that meat was not prepared for Jewish consumption.

[Guest shiloh357]

14 minutes ago, inchrist said:

Further I do not have to prove anything....you have to prove the dietary laws are no longer applicable...provide scripture

No, I don't.  There are no commands to the church to abstain from pork.  So if you say that there is, the onus is on you to provide the scripture that obligates Christians.  I don't have to prove a negative.   

If you cannot find a verse that obligates Christians to Leviticus 11, then you have no case to make for claiming that Christians are required to eat only certain foods.

[Guest shiloh357]

14 minutes ago, inchrist said:

Oh yes you do, you have to show by scripture the diatray laws are no longer applicable

The dietary laws were only given to Israel.  They were not given to any Gentile nation.

There is no repeat of those laws to the church.  Nowhere does the NT point back to Leviticus and reiterate those commands to the church. 

You have to show that even though those commandments are not given explicitly to the church that they are still a requirement.

 

Quote

 

Acts 15:23-29

You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things.

There is no negative from myside....you are the one that has to prove the jewish council changed the dietary law

You really do have this backwords

 

No, I was referring to PAUL:

 

As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one. For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him. Howbeit there is not in every man that knowledge: for some with conscience of the idol unto this hour eat it as a thing offered unto an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled. But meat commendeth us not to God: for neither, if we eat, are we the better; neither, if we eat not, are we the worse. But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak. For if any man see thee which hast knowledge sit at meat in the idol's temple, shall not the conscience of him which is weak be emboldened to eat those things which are offered to idols; And through thy knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died? But when ye sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ. Wherefore, if meat make my brother to offend, I will eat no flesh while the world standeth, lest I make my brother to offend.
(1Co 8:4-13)

All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not. Let no man seek his own, but every man another's wealth. Whatsoever is sold in the shambles, that eat, asking no question for conscience sake: For the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof. If any of them that believe not bid you to a feast, and ye be disposed to go; whatsoever is set before you, eat, asking no question for conscience sake. But if any man say unto you, This is offered in sacrifice unto idols, eat not for his sake that shewed it, and for conscience sake: for the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof: Conscience, I say, not thine own, but of the other: for why is my liberty judged of another man's conscience? For if I by grace be a partaker, why am I evil spoken of for that for which I give thanks? Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God. Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God: Even as I please all men in all things, not seeking mine own profit, but the profit of many, that they may be saved.
(1Co 10:23-33)

 

[Salty]

22 hours ago, shiloh357 said:

But you have not established that the dietary laws laid down in Leviticus are obligatory to the Church. 

Yes I did, when I said this is not a Salvation issue. Translation - following it or not following it has nothing to do with getting into Heaven. If you can't understand those simple statements then I cannot help you.

[Guest shiloh357]

7 minutes ago, Salty said:

Yes I did, when I said this is not a Salvation issue. Translation - following it or not following it has nothing to do with getting into Heaven. If you can't understand those simple statements then I cannot help you.

How exactly does the fact that it is not a salvation issue oblgate the church to follow the commands of Leviticus 11?   I fail to see how the fact that it is not a salvation issue means, "You must keep the dietary laws."