Scribes and Pharisees

[Ezra]

I think that the Pharisees and Scribes, who had it all wrong, were teaching error and keeping those who earnestly sought to obey the Law and sacrifices from doing so properly, Christ was warning them that they would face dire consequences for their actions. The same is true today for those in authority who teach error and inhibit true faith within the Congregation. I'm not talking about, say, those of us here on this forum who participate in discussions on their understanding of scripture, but of those who come here professing a special/unique understanding of Scriptural teachings and try to "teach" them as fact. You can tell those types of individuals because they contend against and attack those who disagree with their brand of "understanding."

We should also remember that Jesus called them "hypocrites" who were inwardly as "ravening wolves" who devoured widows houses, and excused the breaking of the Law through their traditions (e.g. by dodging their responsibility to parents). They were essentially false teachers who were misleading others, and we have those all around us today.  That's why Christ said that we are to beware of the leaven (doctrine) of the Pharisees.

[missmuffet]

I think it tells us that we should not be like them.Jesus rebuked them.We should always believe everything that is in the Bible.

[Ezra]

Matthew 23:13   But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

What do you think this means?

Thanks Ezra.  Yes that's exactly what they did back then.  What about now?

The scribes and Pharisees were the equivalent of today's Traditionalists -- the Catholics and the Orthodox. "Holy Tradition" has become more authoritative than Scripture, when it is in fact the traditions of men and the traditions of the elders.  Because they do not preach the true Gospel, they preach a salvation by good works (including Sacramentalism).

[Widor1]

 

My next question was going to be;

The NT was not just for them, but for us in our day and age also.  Are there modern day scribes and pharisees now?  I'm not talking about Jews, but us, modern day scribes and pharisees.  The pharisees of the old days were very strict in making sure everyone observed the law, the old teachings.  They were superior and in charge. Could it be possible we who are in leadership today are doing the same thing?  Blocking the truth from the sheep.  If someone comes with a different point of view not popular, do we persecute them in such a way, by shutting them out in order to protect the sheep? 

An example, JW's are only allowed to fellowship with JW's.  If they have the truth, what are they afraid of?  Why can't they have any other Christian friends from different denominations? We are supposed to defend with the truth, it's our weapon and every one learns from it, what kind of questions that could arise and how to answer, but they are scared they are going to lose members for doctrine sake.  Now what's more important, quantity or quality?  I'm just giving them as an example and I can see in most denominations there are scribes and pharisees in today's world who are not Jews, but doing the same thing Jesus warned against, only it's not so obvious.

Ah, but now we have the Holy Spirit with us, who teaches us all things. There are many churches teaching wrong doctrine, and/or not acting like Christ. The Pharisees in the bible took God’s law and made that an idol over God, who was actually right there in person with them! Think of it like works without faith, like in James. Today, there may be Pharisees who put the law above God, to the point that they take Jesus out. But God knows who belongs to Him, and the Holy Spirit will lead them where they need to be. Jesus can rescue anyone at anytime, anywhere.

As for JW’s, I know very little about what they believe. What I do know about the religious doctrine they follow is that it is not the truth, and deep down they probably know it too. That may explain why they don’t want to interact with anyone outside of getting them to become a part of that doctrine.

Joh 14:26  But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.

We are all at different stages in our walks with God. He is constantly changing us and molding us to be more like Christ. That being said, there are probably many believers who have been guilty of “Pharisee-itis” at one time. But the Holy Spirit is at work. We are not perfect, but we are being made holy.

Heb 10:14  For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.

[MorningGlory]

Matthew 23:13   But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

What do you think this means?

1. When a woe is pronounced, it means severe and painful judgement from God.

2. The Kingdom of Heaven is only entered by faith and humility, not by works of righteousness which we have done. Their rejection of Christ proved that they were devoid of faith and humility.

3. The scribes and Pharisees were attempting to establish their own righteousness through a minute observation of the Law, while forgetting the more important aspects of mercy and justice, and love for neighbor and God.  Therefore they would not enter into the Kingdom of Heaven.

4. But they were also preventing others from entering the Kingdom by their false doctrine of salvation by works. Therefore they would be subject to severe judgments.

Amen, Ezra.  I could never say this as well as you have. 

[gdemoss]

Matthew 23:13   But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.
 

What do you think this means?

 

This is what I expeienced when I went to dead church services.  People who retard the true progress of spiritual growth in others.  Jesus even pointed out that John the baptist had not entered into the kingdom of heaven yet.  Beware of those who would prevent you from living in the Kingdom of Heaven while your hear on earth.  It is about transcendance.  We need to rise above.  I was a Pharisee in a Fundamentalist Baptist Church until God saved me from their dead ways.  Today I gather with the sick and poor who are downtrodden.  Those who are ignorant of God but open to truth when they both hear it spoken and see it done.  One of the marks of a Pharisee is that they will continually affirm that you cannot actually be like Christ for they cannot so they will be damned if they will allow you too.  They traded in their long gowns for suits though just to keep up with the times. Oh how they love to look good in the outside!!!

Thanks gdemoss

You are so tuned in!

My next question was going to be;

The NT was not just for them, but for us in our day and age also.  Are there modern day scribes and pharisees now?  I'm not talking about Jews, but us, modern day scribes and pharisees.  The pharisees of the old days were very strict in making sure everyone observed the law, the old teachings.  They were superior and in charge. Could it be possible we who are in leadership today are doing the same thing?  Blocking the truth from the sheep.  If someone comes with a different point of view not popular, do we persecute them in such a way, by shutting them out in order to protect the sheep? 

An example, JW's are only allowed to fellowship with JW's.  If they have the truth, what are they afraid of?  Why can't they have any other Christian friends from different denominations? We are supposed to defend with the truth, it's our weapon and every one learns from it, what kind of questions that could arise and how to answer, but they are scared they are going to lose members for doctrine sake.  Now what's more important, quantity or quality?  I'm just giving them as an example and I can see in most denominations there are scribes and pharisees in today's world who are not Jews, but doing the same thing Jesus warned against, only it's not so obvious.

 

 

I feel the need to stay away from labeling entire movements as this or that based upon the doctrines held by some within the whole because there are lost sheep in every place I go under every denomination.  I engage at the individual level.  Sheep need a shepherd to leave the place they are being fed.  Many know that the place the congregate has wrong teaching but they see error everywhere they go and settle for whatever they see is best or they cease going anywhere and isolate at home.

Modern day scibes and Pharisees are they who have an intellectual understanding of the text but it has not truly pierced through the heart and caused the heart to become circumsized unto God.  These generally will error after the same manner of demanding observance to a set of rutuals that must be practiced to be acceptable to them.  They have an overload of traditions to make the word of God to no effect especially the gospel message.  Most seek to keep everyone in the dark though they explain that they are bringing you light (they believe it too but are deceived)  they are threatened when anyone who is truly born of the spirit shows up and begins to win hearts and attention that they normally get themselves.  They see themselves as God incarnate though they really don't know it.  They believe if everyone adores them then they are giving adoration to God.  They stand at the door of the church greeting people both when they come in and when they leave.  

Forgive the Father for they know not what they do but rather send more workers out into the feilds to harvest!  

I confess.  I only know these things because I am telling you who I was before Jesus stopped me on my road to Damascus and saved me from a religious death. I repent!

[Dakila777]

Matthew 23:13   But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

What do you think this means?

Thanks Ezra.  Yes that's exactly what they did back then.  What about now?

The scribes and Pharisees were the equivalent of today's Traditionalists -- the Catholics and the Orthodox. "Holy Tradition" has become more authoritative than Scripture, when it is in fact the traditions of men and the traditions of the elders.  Because they do not preach the true Gospel, they preach a salvation by good works (including Sacramentalism).

So true...

[Dakila777]

Matthew 23:13   But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.
 

What do you think this means?

 

This is what I expeienced when I went to dead church services.  People who retard the true progress of spiritual growth in others.  Jesus even pointed out that John the baptist had not entered into the kingdom of heaven yet.  Beware of those who would prevent you from living in the Kingdom of Heaven while your hear on earth.  It is about transcendance.  We need to rise above.  I was a Pharisee in a Fundamentalist Baptist Church until God saved me from their dead ways.  Today I gather with the sick and poor who are downtrodden.  Those who are ignorant of God but open to truth when they both hear it spoken and see it done.  One of the marks of a Pharisee is that they will continually affirm that you cannot actually be like Christ for they cannot so they will be damned if they will allow you too.  They traded in their long gowns for suits though just to keep up with the times. Oh how they love to look good in the outside!!!

Thanks gdemoss

You are so tuned in!

My next question was going to be;

The NT was not just for them, but for us in our day and age also.  Are there modern day scribes and pharisees now?  I'm not talking about Jews, but us, modern day scribes and pharisees.  The pharisees of the old days were very strict in making sure everyone observed the law, the old teachings.  They were superior and in charge. Could it be possible we who are in leadership today are doing the same thing?  Blocking the truth from the sheep.  If someone comes with a different point of view not popular, do we persecute them in such a way, by shutting them out in order to protect the sheep? 

An example, JW's are only allowed to fellowship with JW's.  If they have the truth, what are they afraid of?  Why can't they have any other Christian friends from different denominations? We are supposed to defend with the truth, it's our weapon and every one learns from it, what kind of questions that could arise and how to answer, but they are scared they are going to lose members for doctrine sake.  Now what's more important, quantity or quality?  I'm just giving them as an example and I can see in most denominations there are scribes and pharisees in today's world who are not Jews, but doing the same thing Jesus warned against, only it's not so obvious.

 

 

I feel the need to stay away from labeling entire movements as this or that based upon the doctrines held by some within the whole because there are lost sheep in every place I go under every denomination.  I engage at the individual level.  Sheep need a shepherd to leave the place they are being fed.  Many know that the place the congregate has wrong teaching but they see error everywhere they go and settle for whatever they see is best or they cease going anywhere and isolate at home.

Modern day scibes and Pharisees are they who have an intellectual understanding of the text but it has not truly pierced through the heart and caused the heart to become circumsized unto God.  These generally will error after the same manner of demanding observance to a set of rutuals that must be practiced to be acceptable to them.  They have an overload of traditions to make the word of God to no effect especially the gospel message.  Most seek to keep everyone in the dark though they explain that they are bringing you light (they believe it too but are deceived)  they are threatened when anyone who is truly born of the spirit shows up and begins to win hearts and attention that they normally get themselves.  They see themselves as God incarnate though they really don't know it.  They believe if everyone adores them then they are giving adoration to God.  They stand at the door of the church greeting people both when they come in and when they leave.  

Forgive the Father for they know not what they do but rather send more workers out into the feilds to harvest!  

I confess.  I only know these things because I am telling you who I was before Jesus stopped me on my road to Damascus and saved me from a religious death. I repent!

I can relate to you, Brother, to some degree 

I was a Catholic before, so you know what that means....

In my search for God, I myself had looked on a number of denominations, including a cult. Had seen some Pharisees firsthand.

I even know a couple of high school acquiantances from a Fundamentalist Baptist Church -- who are now a pastor and his wife. (The woman was once a Catholic like me.) They had visited me some years ago, to try to see if I could join their church.

I could not speak for the pastor, but the wife was clearly suffering a religious death. She had gained a lot of weight, (forced to) dressed in their church uniform, and obviously not enjoying her life as a servant of the Lord.

[gdemoss]

Matthew 23:13   But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.
 

What do you think this means?

 

This is what I expeienced when I went to dead church services.  People who retard the true progress of spiritual growth in others.  Jesus even pointed out that John the baptist had not entered into the kingdom of heaven yet.  Beware of those who would prevent you from living in the Kingdom of Heaven while your hear on earth.  It is about transcendance.  We need to rise above.  I was a Pharisee in a Fundamentalist Baptist Church until God saved me from their dead ways.  Today I gather with the sick and poor who are downtrodden.  Those who are ignorant of God but open to truth when they both hear it spoken and see it done.  One of the marks of a Pharisee is that they will continually affirm that you cannot actually be like Christ for they cannot so they will be damned if they will allow you too.  They traded in their long gowns for suits though just to keep up with the times. Oh how they love to look good in the outside!!!

Thanks gdemoss

You are so tuned in!

My next question was going to be;

The NT was not just for them, but for us in our day and age also.  Are there modern day scribes and pharisees now?  I'm not talking about Jews, but us, modern day scribes and pharisees.  The pharisees of the old days were very strict in making sure everyone observed the law, the old teachings.  They were superior and in charge. Could it be possible we who are in leadership today are doing the same thing?  Blocking the truth from the sheep.  If someone comes with a different point of view not popular, do we persecute them in such a way, by shutting them out in order to protect the sheep? 

An example, JW's are only allowed to fellowship with JW's.  If they have the truth, what are they afraid of?  Why can't they have any other Christian friends from different denominations? We are supposed to defend with the truth, it's our weapon and every one learns from it, what kind of questions that could arise and how to answer, but they are scared they are going to lose members for doctrine sake.  Now what's more important, quantity or quality?  I'm just giving them as an example and I can see in most denominations there are scribes and pharisees in today's world who are not Jews, but doing the same thing Jesus warned against, only it's not so obvious.

 

 

I feel the need to stay away from labeling entire movements as this or that based upon the doctrines held by some within the whole because there are lost sheep in every place I go under every denomination.  I engage at the individual level.  Sheep need a shepherd to leave the place they are being fed.  Many know that the place the congregate has wrong teaching but they see error everywhere they go and settle for whatever they see is best or they cease going anywhere and isolate at home.

Modern day scibes and Pharisees are they who have an intellectual understanding of the text but it has not truly pierced through the heart and caused the heart to become circumsized unto God.  These generally will error after the same manner of demanding observance to a set of rutuals that must be practiced to be acceptable to them.  They have an overload of traditions to make the word of God to no effect especially the gospel message.  Most seek to keep everyone in the dark though they explain that they are bringing you light (they believe it too but are deceived)  they are threatened when anyone who is truly born of the spirit shows up and begins to win hearts and attention that they normally get themselves.  They see themselves as God incarnate though they really don't know it.  They believe if everyone adores them then they are giving adoration to God.  They stand at the door of the church greeting people both when they come in and when they leave.  

Forgive the Father for they know not what they do but rather send more workers out into the feilds to harvest!  

I confess.  I only know these things because I am telling you who I was before Jesus stopped me on my road to Damascus and saved me from a religious death. I repent!

I can relate to you, Brother, to some degree 

I was a Catholic before, so you know what that means....

In my search for God, I myself had looked on a number of denominations, including a cult. Had seen some Pharisees firsthand.

I even know a couple of high school acquiantances from a Fundamentalist Baptist Church -- who are now a pastor and his wife. (The woman was once a Catholic like me.) They had visited me some years ago, to try to see if I could join their church.

I could not speak for the pastor, but the wife was clearly suffering a religious death. She had gained a lot of weight, (forced to) dressed in their church uniform, and obviously not enjoying her life as a servant of the Lord.

What she needs then is someone who can win her confidence then work in her life to help her find Christ and the joy of walking in the Holy Spirit.  I pray God prepare such a woman to show her the truth in word and deed.  Amen.

[Dakila777]

 

I feel the need to stay away from labeling entire movements as this or that based upon the doctrines held by some within the whole because there are lost sheep in every place I go under every denomination.  I engage at the individual level.  Sheep need a shepherd to leave the place they are being fed.  Many know that the place the congregate has wrong teaching but they see error everywhere they go and settle for whatever they see is best or they cease going anywhere and isolate at home.

Modern day scibes and Pharisees are they who have an intellectual understanding of the text but it has not truly pierced through the heart and caused the heart to become circumsized unto God.  These generally will error after the same manner of demanding observance to a set of rutuals that must be practiced to be acceptable to them.  They have an overload of traditions to make the word of God to no effect especially the gospel message.  Most seek to keep everyone in the dark though they explain that they are bringing you light (they believe it too but are deceived)  they are threatened when anyone who is truly born of the spirit shows up and begins to win hearts and attention that they normally get themselves.  They see themselves as God incarnate though they really don't know it.  They believe if everyone adores them then they are giving adoration to God.  They stand at the door of the church greeting people both when they come in and when they leave.  

Forgive the Father for they know not what they do but rather send more workers out into the feilds to harvest!  

I confess.  I only know these things because I am telling you who I was before Jesus stopped me on my road to Damascus and saved me from a religious death. I repent!

I can relate to you, Brother, to some degree 

I was a Catholic before, so you know what that means....

In my search for God, I myself had looked on a number of denominations, including a cult. Had seen some Pharisees firsthand.

I even know a couple of high school acquiantances from a Fundamentalist Baptist Church -- who are now a pastor and his wife. (The woman was once a Catholic like me.) They had visited me some years ago, to try to see if I could join their church.

I could not speak for the pastor, but the wife was clearly suffering a religious death. She had gained a lot of weight, (forced to) dressed in their church uniform, and obviously not enjoying her life as a servant of the Lord.

What she needs then is someone who can win her confidence then work in her life to help her find Christ and the joy of walking in the Holy Spirit.  I pray God prepare such a woman to show her the truth in word and deed.  Amen.

I am praying with you...