The_Patriot21 Posted December 10, 2015 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 28 Topic Count: 338 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 15,710 Content Per Day: 2.45 Reputation: 8,526 Days Won: 39 Joined: 10/25/2006 Status: Online Birthday: 02/27/1985 Share Posted December 10, 2015 8 minutes ago, archaeologist55 said: Most likely as technically I agree with you. Sometimes people's words do not represent the attitude they are holding about this issue. I just tend to lean towards not killing even in self-defense and I am sure we both can make arguments supporting our views. Ultimately what you do in those situations is between you and God as it is you who has to live with it and the consequences. I prefer to try and avoid that situation. Im not seeing what your talking about. Im not calling you a liar, but keep in mind, oftentimes, in a forum, where we cant see others body languate, or hear their tone, words are often misunderstood and construed differently. Its something we all struggle with-being misunderstood and misunderstanding others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archaeologist55 Posted December 10, 2015 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 334 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 312 Days Won: 1 Joined: 08/03/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted December 10, 2015 4 minutes ago, the_patriot2015 said: Im not seeing what your talking about. Im not calling you a liar, but keep in mind, oftentimes, in a forum, where we cant see others body languate, or hear their tone, words are often misunderstood and construed differently. Its something we all struggle with-being misunderstood and misunderstanding others. Never thought you were. What I am saying is that I do not have a rela problem with your position about self-defense and killing. I just personally prefer to find a better way to deal with that issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted December 10, 2015 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 598 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,190 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,915 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted December 10, 2015 2 hours ago, archaeologist55 said: Interesting point of view and for the most part I can agree with you. it is the last sentence that bothers me and need to ask the question-- are we avoiding taking resonsibility for our decisions by thinking that way? not if you believe in prayer. Every time I have The idea in using a weapon is to stop the person from doing what he's doing to you..... not to kill him/her. But you do have to hurt them enough to make them stop. So there is always a chance it can go either way... if I ask God not to let someone die at the hands of that person in the process of harming my family, it is my conjecture that first God could have stopped them from hurting us himself, or that he can keep the person from dieing.... if he wants us to die, we will die anyway, but I will have done everything I can to keep my family and myself from harms way. If you are just determined to hurt my family, you get what comes. Just a note that should I be in some store or the bank and a robbery takes place, unless those who are doing so are going to hurt me or others, I will not interfere. I've discussed it with our bank and thier procedure is to give the thieves what they want and get them out of the bank as quickly as possible and let the cops handle it from there. Most bank robbers get caught eventually and it's not worth the chance of getting others hurt. Same goes with anywhere you are....... lots of danger around during a gun/knife fight for anyone around and it should be avoided when possible. Also each state has it's own sets of laws for how and for what reasons you can use a weapon for deadly force. It's not a simple thing to carry a gun, especially in other states. The gun safety classes have tests to make sure that you understand the law for your state, but there is a very big difference in say Oklahoma and Oregon. Concerning California it might be better to just let a perp shoot you and see if you die. but not a knife...... those things hurt too much and you seldom die very quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archaeologist55 Posted December 10, 2015 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 334 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 312 Days Won: 1 Joined: 08/03/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted December 10, 2015 12 minutes ago, other one said: not if you believe in prayer. Every time I have The idea in using a weapon is to stop the person from doing what he's doing to you..... not to kill him/her. But you do have to hurt them enough to make them stop. So there is always a chance it can go either way... if I ask God not to let someone die at the hands of that person in the process of harming my family, it is my conjecture that first God could have stopped them from hurting us himself, or that he can keep the person from dieing.... if he wants us to die, we will die anyway, but I will have done everything I can to keep my family and myself from harms way. If you are just determined to hurt my family, you get what comes. Just a note that should I be in some store or the bank and a robbery takes place, unless those who are doing so are going to hurt me or others, I will not interfere. I've discussed it with our bank and thier procedure is to give the thieves what they want and get them out of the bank as quickly as possible and let the cops handle it from there. Most bank robbers get caught eventually and it's not worth the chance of getting others hurt. Same goes with anywhere you are....... lots of danger around during a gun/knife fight for anyone around and it should be avoided when possible. Also each state has it's own sets of laws for how and for what reasons you can use a weapon for deadly force. It's not a simple thing to carry a gun, especially in other states. The gun safety classes have tests to make sure that you understand the law for your state, but there is a very big difference in say Oklahoma and Oregon. Concerning California it might be better to just let a perp shoot you and see if you die. but not a knife...... those things hurt too much and you seldom die very quickly. Now that you provided more explanation I see where you are coming from and I do not have a problem with it and I agree with your attitude about protecting your family but I may not be as hardlined about it as you. I would probably shoot anyone who threatened my wife or kids but then I do not own a gun either but rely upon God's protection for my family I believe there is a verse, and I do not recall the exact reference points, that goes blessed is the city that does not rely upon walls but in God for protection. Maybe Fresno Joe knows the exact verse I am thinking of. I am not talking about outside of the home. Different legal rules apply there but the same scriptural ones apply everywhere. I remember being told that cops counsel people to drag an intruder inside the house if you shoot him anywhere on your property. That way you are legally protected from murder charges. I have owned guns but i do not believe in carrying them any more. This just isn't the old west Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted December 10, 2015 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 598 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,190 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,915 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted December 10, 2015 1 minute ago, archaeologist55 said: This just isn't the old west LoL,,,,, I'm not so sure I can agree with that...... the old west was not nearly as violent as some historians let on... A few towns had reputations, but goodness look at Chicago, DC and LA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archaeologist55 Posted December 10, 2015 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 334 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 312 Days Won: 1 Joined: 08/03/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted December 10, 2015 2 minutes ago, other one said: LoL,,,,, I'm not so sure I can agree with that...... the old west was not nearly as violent as some historians let on... A few towns had reputations, but goodness look at Chicago, DC and LA. i agree and being a light to those cities takes more courage and less weaponry. In other words while we can own weapons and kill in self-defense i think there is a better way to go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ezra Posted December 10, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 134 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 8,142 Content Per Day: 2.34 Reputation: 6,612 Days Won: 20 Joined: 11/02/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted December 10, 2015 6 hours ago, Tiger Eye said: I'm serious, I cannot imagine myself being violent. I can t either. We are discussing general principles. There is no sin in protecting oneself and one s loved ones from harm and danger. If it means eliminating a predator then that s what it means. If you were threatened by a wild animal or a rabid dog, the same principle would apply. If criminals attempt a home invasion and you can disable them, more power to you. By now someone should have come up with powerful tranqulizer bullets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted December 10, 2015 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 598 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,190 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,915 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted December 10, 2015 Just now, archaeologist55 said: i agree and being a light to those cities takes more courage and less weaponry the only times I was successfully mugged was in Chicago.... and Washington DC on 13th street. Both in the mid 70's I've never liked either place since. Both now have super gun laws and very high violence rates.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ezra Posted December 10, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 134 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 8,142 Content Per Day: 2.34 Reputation: 6,612 Days Won: 20 Joined: 11/02/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted December 10, 2015 6 hours ago, hmbld said: I keep thinking why did God allow Paul to be beaten, stoned, etc so many times? Did he not defend himself? There is a huge difference between suffering for the sake of the Gospel and being endangered by someone on drugs, alcohol, demon-possession, or commitment to Jihad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archaeologist55 Posted December 10, 2015 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 334 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 312 Days Won: 1 Joined: 08/03/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted December 10, 2015 4 minutes ago, Ezra said: There is a huge difference between suffering for the sake of the Gospel and being endangered by someone on drugs, alcohol, demon-possession, or commitment to Jihad. I agree BUT then you need to determine which biblical instruction guides the believer in the latter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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