Raptures & Resurrections

[RevelationWriter]

* I've come to question what we've believed about A Rapture & A Resurrection being one event together for the living & the dead in Christ.

When Jesus and His disciples spoke differently to various points of there being more than one Rapture & Resurrection for different people at different times.

 Jesus spoke of The Rapture/Wedding of The Bridegroom for The Wise Virgins.

Who were not only ready; but conversing with the other live Foolish Virgins who were not ready. - Matt.25 None of which were Resurrected to go into The Wedding with The Bridegroom.

- When Jesus spoke of the assemblies in The Revelation Of Jesus Christ, there is only one assembly to which He would give His Name to, as does a Husband.

They would also receive His Father's name and receive the name of New Jerusalem as a Jerusalemite of New Jerusalem. Going out of New Jerusalem no more. For they would be as Pillars of New Jerusalem.

Jesus said these He would keep from The Hour Of Trial that would come upon the whole world to test those Dwelling On Earth. So they will not be dwelling on earth at the hour of trial.

Surely again this is The Wedding Rapture for this assembly who overcomes. And no others. If they'd hold fast to what they have and let no one take their Crown they would overcome. - Rev.3:7-13

- Then we se The Great Multitude appearing; then, the only ones to wash their Robes white in the Lamb's Blood themselves. With no indication of dying and being resurrected. - Rev.7:9

Then we see TGM standing before God's Throne with The Lamb, in white with palms in hand. Surely being the only indication of The Rapture Wedding of The Wise Virgins w/out a resurrection.

The New City Jerusalemites.

- So when John saw The New City Jerusalem that will come down to the new earth; he sees New Jerusalem as adorned as a Bride for her Husband for "The Lamb's Wife' is truly there coming to Him on

the New earth of His Davidic Throne. -

* Now, Paul's resurrection, he believed there would 'be A resurrection of BOTH the just and the unjust' - Acts 24:15

And so, "The Rest Of The Dead did not live again till the 1,000 yrs had ended". Is this the 2nd Resurrection of "BOTH The Just and The Unjust"  - Rev.20:5

Paul was not given The Revelation Of Jesus Christ, which was given to John for the assemblies. Did Paul only know of one Resurrection? Which un be known to him would be the 2nd Resurrection?

For we see the 1st Resurrection is only of those left behind that lose their heads to the beast who live with Christ 1,000 yrs. - Rev.20:4

So Paul's (2nd) rapture with the (1st) Resurrection has to be with one of these two resurrections in Rev.20

For The Great Multitude who are Raptured not dying marry The Lamb then after 'The Marriage Supper Of The Lamb' still stay with God in New Jerusalem serving Him

till they come in New Jerusalem to the new earth after the 1,000 yrs - calling all those on the new earth who thirst to come take the water of life freely as TGM ( unconsummated 'Bride') knows where the fountains of living waters are as The Lamb led them there in the first place.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[WilliamL]

6 minutes ago, RevelationWriter said:

Jesus and His disciples spoke differently to various points of there being more than one Rapture & Resurrection for different people at different times.

True.

7 minutes ago, RevelationWriter said:

Then we se The Great Multitude appearing; then, the only ones to wash their Robes white in the Lamb's Blood themselves. With no indication of dying and being resurrected. - Rev.7:9

Then we see TGM standing before God's Throne with The Lamb, in white with palms in hand. Surely being the only indication of The Rapture Wedding of The Wise Virgins w/out a resurrection.

And the Great Multitude is spoken of again in Rev. 19:1-2, 6-8, before the event of "the marriage supper;" and this Great Multitude is called the "wife" of the Lamb:

19:6 "...for the marriage of the Lamb came [aorist simple past tense], and His wife made [aorist simple past tense] herself ready.”

So the marriage here has already been consummated, which consummation is only then followed by a marriage supper, just as in a traditional Jewish wedding in the time of Christ.

[rollinTHUNDER]

51 minutes ago, RevelationWriter said:

* I've come to question what we've believed about A Rapture & A Resurrection being one event together for the living & the dead in Christ.

When Jesus and His disciples spoke differently to various points of there being more than one Rapture & Resurrection for different people at different times.

 Jesus spoke of The Rapture/Wedding of The Bridegroom for The Wise Virgins.

Who were not only ready; but conversing with the other live Foolish Virgins who were not ready. - Matt.25 None of which were Resurrected to go into The Wedding with The Bridegroom.

- When Jesus spoke of the assemblies in The Revelation Of Jesus Christ, there is only one assembly to which He would give His Name to, as does a Husband.

They would also receive His Father's name and receive the name of New Jerusalem as a Jerusalemite of New Jerusalem. Going out of New Jerusalem no more. For they would be as Pillars of New Jerusalem.

Jesus said these He would keep from The Hour Of Trial that would come upon the whole world to test those Dwelling On Earth. So they will not be dwelling on earth at the hour of trial.

Surely again this is The Wedding Rapture for this assembly who overcomes. And no others. If they'd hold fast to what they have and let no one take their Crown they would overcome. - Rev.3:7-13

- Then we se The Great Multitude appearing; then, the only ones to wash their Robes white in the Lamb's Blood themselves. With no indication of dying and being resurrected. - Rev.7:9

Then we see TGM standing before God's Throne with The Lamb, in white with palms in hand. Surely being the only indication of The Rapture Wedding of The Wise Virgins w/out a resurrection.

The New City Jerusalemites.

- So when John saw The New City Jerusalem that will come down to the new earth; he sees New Jerusalem as adorned as a Bride for her Husband for "The Lamb's Wife' is truly there coming to Him on

the New earth of His Davidic Throne. -

* Now, Paul's resurrection, he believed there would 'be A resurrection of BOTH the just and the unjust' - Acts 24:15

And so, "The Rest Of The Dead did not live again till the 1,000 yrs had ended". Is this the 2nd Resurrection of "BOTH The Just and The Unjust"  - Rev.20:5

Paul was not given The Revelation Of Jesus Christ, which was given to John for the assemblies. Did Paul only know of one Resurrection? Which un be known to him would be the 2nd Resurrection?

For we see the 1st Resurrection is only of those left behind that lose their heads to the beast who live with Christ 1,000 yrs. - Rev.20:4

So Paul's (2nd) rapture with the (1st) Resurrection has to be with one of these two resurrections in Rev.20

For The Great Multitude who are Raptured not dying marry The Lamb then after 'The Marriage Supper Of The Lamb' still stay with God in New Jerusalem serving Him

till they come in New Jerusalem to the new earth after the 1,000 yrs - calling all those on the new earth who thirst to come take the water of life freely as TGM ( unconsummated 'Bride') knows where the fountains of living waters are as The Lamb led them there in the first place.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Good observation, RW!

You have recognized that there is still more to this mystery than most people think, which is also why Paul called it a great mystery.  However, you still have some loose connections here.  To keep it brief, I'll just point out one or two.

The dead are resurrected first, in the first resurrection, aka the resurrection of the just and/or righteous.

1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 (MEV)
For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will not precede those who are asleep. ¹⁶ For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trumpet call of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. ¹⁷ Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we shall be forever with the Lord.

It does not necessarily mean the dead will go in the rapture first.  The way I understand it is that the dead will be raised from their graves in their incorruptible bodies, and then we who are alive will be changed (incorruptible bodies also) , and we will then be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air.

We don't see the resurrection because it has already happened by the time they are all standing around the throne.  We also do not see the change of the living, because both of these took place previously on the earth.  Hope that helps.

 

 

Cheers  

[Ezra]

There is only one Resurrection/Rapture in Scripture, in which the dead in Christ are raised, and those who are alive are transformed. There is also a resurrection of the Tribulation Saints later on, and finally a resurrection of the unjust or the damned, before the Great White Throne judgement.

[rollinTHUNDER]

3 hours ago, Ezra said:

There is only one Resurrection/Rapture in Scripture, in which the dead in Christ are raised, and those who are alive are transformed. There is also a resurrection of the Tribulation Saints later on, and finally a resurrection of the unjust or the damned, before the Great White Throne judgement.

Hi Ezra,

I agree there is only one resurrection/rapture.  This is the first resurrection, but it includes more than the resurrected dead and those who are raptured.  The first resurrection also includes the martyrs killed before the second coming, for they will be among the saints that will be returning with Him (Rev. 20:4).  God has promised not to avenge their blood until the last martyr is killed (Rev. 6:9-11).  The initial rapture will occur in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, but the resurrection itself will extend longer, until the last martyr is killed, as God will wait on them before He judges the nations (1 Pet. 4:17-18, Rev. 6:9-11, 11:18).

Then after the millennium (1000 years) will be the resurrection of the unjust at the great white throne judgment.

 

 

Cheers

 

[Ezra]

On 21/01/2016 at 6:46 PM, rollinTHUNDER said:

Hi Ezra,

I agree there is only one resurrection/rapture.  This is the first resurrection, but it includes more than the resurrected dead and those who are raptured.  The first resurrection also includes the martyrs killed before the second coming, for they will be among the saints that will be returning with Him (Rev. 20:4). 

Correct. The First Resurrection is compared to a Hebrew harvest:

FIRST FRUITS --  Christ

HARVEST -- Resurrection/Rapture Saints

GLEANINGS - Tribulation Martyrs

[Sister]

13 hours ago, RevelationWriter said:

* I've come to question what we've believed about A Rapture & A Resurrection being one event together for the living & the dead in Christ.

When Jesus and His disciples spoke differently to various points of there being more than one Rapture & Resurrection for different people at different times.

 Jesus spoke of The Rapture/Wedding of The Bridegroom for The Wise Virgins.

Who were not only ready; but conversing with the other live Foolish Virgins who were not ready. - Matt.25 None of which were Resurrected to go into The Wedding with The Bridegroom.' - Acts 24:15

 

RevelationWriter

I'd just like to add;

The kingdom of God shall be "likened" to ten virgins.....   compared to the ten virgins;

Matthew 25:1   Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.

The ones with no oil in their lamps had no truth to sustain them for the tribulation.  Therefore they fell.  (Lack of truth)  Their wall (foundation) was built with untempered mortar.

 

 Ezekiel 13:10   Because, even because they have seduced my people, saying, Peace; and there was no peace; and one built up a wall, and, lo, others daubed it with untempered morter:

  Ezekiel 13:11   Say unto them which daub it with untempered morter, that it shall fall: there shall be an overflowing shower; and ye, O great hailstones, shall fall; and a stormy wind shall rend it.

  Ezekiel 13:14   So will I break down the wall that ye have daubed with untempered morter, and bring it down to the ground, so that the foundation thereof shall be discovered, and it shall fall, and ye shall be consumed in the midst thereof: and ye shall know that I am the LORD.

  Ezekiel 13:15   Thus will I accomplish my wrath upon the wall, and upon them that have daubed it with untempered morter, and will say unto you, The wall is no more, neither they that daubed it;

  Ezekiel 22:28   And her prophets have daubed them with untempered morter, seeing vanity, and divining lies unto them, saying, Thus saith the Lord GOD, when the LORD hath not spoken.

I'm still following you.

[Sister]

Quote

When Jesus spoke of the assemblies in The Revelation Of Jesus Christ, there is only one assembly to which He would give His Name to, as does a Husband.

They would also receive His Father's name and receive the name of New Jerusalem as a Jerusalemite of New Jerusalem. Going out of New Jerusalem no more. For they would be as Pillars of New Jerusalem.

revelationWriter

They will not go outside of the truth now. 

Those in the first resurrection are comprised of the 144K, and the saints of old who died in Christ,.... and those of the last generation who went through the fire to have their robes washed clean, because they were dirty.  Some who have built their foundation on untempered mortar will realise their foundation was weak, and come out of Babylon by not receiving the Mark of the Beast.  Going through tribulation and losing their lives for Christ sake will wash their sins clean once and for all, and they also will be accepted.  These are the ones that come in at the final hour, those who realise, "heh this is true what we once denied" (pre-trib)

 

 

[Sister]

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Jesus said these He would keep from The Hour Of Trial that would come upon the whole world to test those Dwelling On Earth. So they will not be dwelling on earth at the hour of trial.

Surely again this is The Wedding Rapture for this assembly who overcomes. And no others. If they'd hold fast to what they have and let no one take their Crown they would overcome. - Rev.3:7-13

revelationWriter

Revelation 3:10   Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
 

The hour of "temptation"  - save one's life for mammon (bowl of soup), or lose it for Christ. (Just like Esau did, traded his inheritance so he could live that day)

Doesn't mean they won't be there for that hour of temptation, but I see it as they wont be tempted.  I am still following you brother, I could be wrong.  I see where you are going with this, and they may not be here like you stated, that is possible.

I envision from other scriptures that all are led to the courts for refusing the Mark of the beast, and this is when God gives them a mouth to speak through the holy spirit.  It says some of you will be killed and then he says don't worry because not even a hair on your head will perish.  I think the last group are the 144K, who have washed their robes white already, and will be taken at this stage.

 

[Sister]

Quote

- Then we se The Great Multitude appearing; then, the only ones to wash their Robes white in the Lamb's Blood themselves. With no indication of dying and being resurrected. - Rev.7:9

RevelationWriter

Revelation 7:9   After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

Revelation 7:13   And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?

Revelation 7:14   And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

This would be all the saints, even from past generations who went through their tribulations also.  Not just the last generation.  It says multitudes which no man could number.  There are not multiples which cannot be numbered who serve Christ in the last days.

 

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Then we see TGM standing before God's Throne with The Lamb, in white with palms in hand. Surely being the only indication of The Rapture Wedding of The Wise Virgins w/out a resurrection.

Yes they are all accepted into the Kingdom of God at the first resurrection.

 

Quote

 

The New City Jerusalemites.

- So when John saw The New City Jerusalem that will come down to the new earth; he sees New Jerusalem as adorned as a Bride for her Husband for "The Lamb's Wife' is truly there coming to Him on

the New earth of His Davidic Throne. -

 

Still following you

Quote

 

* Now, Paul's resurrection, he believed there would 'be A resurrection of BOTH the just and the unjust' - Acts 24:15

And so, "The Rest Of The Dead did not live again till the 1,000 yrs had ended". Is this the 2nd Resurrection of "BOTH The Just and The Unjust"  - Rev.20:5

 

Bingo

 

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Paul was not given The Revelation Of Jesus Christ, which was given to John for the assemblies. Did Paul only know of one Resurrection? Which un be known to him would be the 2nd Resurrection?

Paul was given everything, but It was up to John to reveal.

John 15:15   Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you.

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For we see the 1st Resurrection is only of those left behind that lose their heads to the beast who live with Christ 1,000 yrs. - Rev.20:4

No it's comprised of everyone who followed Christ whether dead or alive from all generations.

 

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So Paul's (2nd) rapture with the (1st) Resurrection has to be with one of these two resurrections in Rev.20

The picking up of the 144K, and the rest of the tribulation saints are all part of the FIRST RESURRECTION.  The 144K get picked up earlier, but it's still of that same 1st resurrection.

Revelation 20:4   And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
 

Yes this one - he is just zoning in on the last day saints, but all the rest are still in this same resurrection.
 

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For The Great Multitude who are Raptured not dying marry The Lamb then after 'The Marriage Supper Of The Lamb' still stay with God in New Jerusalem serving Him

till they come in New Jerusalem to the new earth after the 1,000 yrs - calling all those on the new earth who thirst to come take the water of life freely as TGM ( unconsummated 'Bride') knows where the fountains of living waters are as The Lamb led them there in the first place.

 

It doesn't say the Great multitude did not die?  It's just showing all the saints together who are separate from the 144K.

They will all be in the New Jerusalem serving Christ and reigning with him for the 1000 years.  They wont be disappearing anywhere only to come back.

At the 2nd judgement, the wicked who are found guilty not written in the Lambs book of life will be thrown into the lake of fire.  That's it.  No more to enter the kingdom after this.  All the wicked gone.  

What we have left are only saints.  Now God is going to melt the heavens & the earth to get rid of all the contaminations and make a new one.  Even death and hell will be destroyed in that great melting.

What I have a problem with is this.  When the new earth is made, it will not be as the former, made out of our material, but made out of what heaven is made out of - spirit.  So it will be a different material for the spiritual.  I envision earth now to resemble heaven, only everything in heaven consists of spirit.  God's throne is spirit, his angels spirit,  I see the trees there as spirit, made out of a different material, even the food, water, everything.  Flesh and blood cannot exist in that same spiritual environment, which is why the saints have to be changed to spirit before they can enter. 

This is my problem which I cannot solve;

Those who get accepted in the 2nd judgement who did not know Christ - will they be turned to spirit straight away?, because their works were accepted ( this is what they are judged on here, a different judgement) if so, it only makes sense that they be brought back to life in the flesh and taught first, just like Israel has to do in the millennium.  But where would this fit in? I'm going deeper now.

God does everything in order, but sometimes there's gaps in between and we find those details in other scriptures.  In other words, when the 2nd judgement has taken place, there might be a few years before he melts the earth.