Greed, oppressing the poor and the wage earner

[Guest]

51 minutes ago, The_Patriot2016 said:

I agree, those who are bad off can easily be exploited. My point is though that many in America, arnt bad off because they can't get a "good enough" job. There are millions of people around the globe that would literally kill for that cashiers job at wal-mart or to fliping burgers at Burger King. Some are, but many are in bad shape because they bought into the American greed, the buy now pay later. They buy big houses and nice cars they can't afford on top of their student loans then end up defaulting on their loans because they didnt get that 6 figure job they dreamed of when they went to colleg, and they dug themselves in to deep and can't afford to pay off their bills, which leaves them with no credit score, no home, no nice cars and working wal-mart, and all the while sore because it "wasn't their fault" they squandered everything.

Americans do have it well in comparison to other countries, and sometimes, we here bring it on ourselves, but I also think that there are not enough protections in for our own fellow Americans who fall between the cracks into poverty.

51 minutes ago, The_Patriot2016 said:

Fact is most American jobs pay better and offer better benefits then a huge portion of the world. Many of them also give to the poor more then many others in other countries. Do they exploit people? Sure. But not to the extent that most people realize. You can live off a wal-mart wage, you can even make a career at it and make good money. People are just to greedy, they've bought into the American lie of instant gratification, and sold themselves to creditors. 

 

Yep, you can become a manager via Wal-mart and have it good—one of the advantages of living in this country.

 

53 minutes ago, The_Patriot2016 said:

I agree, those who are bad off can easily be exploited. My point is though that many in America, arnt bad off because they can't get a "good enough" job. There are millions of people around the globe that would literally kill for that cashiers job at wal-mart or to fliping burgers at Burger King. Some are, but many are in bad shape because they bought into the American greed, the buy now pay later. They buy big houses and nice cars they can't afford on top of their student loans then end up defaulting on their loans because they didnt get that 6 figure job they dreamed of when they went to colleg, and they dug themselves in to deep and can't afford to pay off their bills, which leaves them with no credit score, no home, no nice cars and working wal-mart, and all the while sore because it "wasn't their fault" they squandered everything.

 

Fact is most American jobs pay better and offer better benefits then a huge portion of the world. Many of them also give to the poor more then many others in other countries. Do they exploit people? Sure. But not to the extent that most people realize. You can live off a wal-mart wage, you can even make a career at it and make good money. People are just to greedy, they've bought into the American lie of instant gratification, and sold themselves to creditors. 

 

I'm not saying there arnt people in the US that are genuinely down on their luck. There is, definitely. But a lot of people are there of their own free will, and its not the big bad companies such as wal-mart and McDonald's that put them there. It's big bad companies like McDonald's and wal-mart that have helped make America great over the years, free enterprise boosts the economy... And notice over the last few years with Obama, hea been attacking free enterprise, and look what's been happening to the economy. Blaming the company is just something they want you to do, because it passes the buck from who's really at fault.

 

The American way does allow for advancement that doesn't exist elsewhere.  I haven’t looked enough to consider Obama anti-America during these recent years, but I do not like the health care act he passed at all.

[The_Patriot21]

Oh, there are certainly American that have fallen between the cracks, I'm not arguing that. I'm just saying the percentage of people who actually fall between the cracks and those who are there of their own accord is higher them many other countries. America has laws in effect that do protect the worker, many countries do not. People here are whining because they're making 7.50 an hour at McDonald's, because they can't afford a $200,000 house and a brand new car on that, while in many parts of Africa your average citizen is living in a mud but with no car, no running water, and lucky if they make $7.50 in a month.

 

Yet, the American corporation is "taking advantage" of people. No, actually they're not. And if we keep forcing them to raise how much they pay employees, the fewer people will have jobs, and more will be outsourced to countries that don't have minimal wage and they will take advantage of people. How much wal-mart pays isn't the problem.

[Guest Thallasa]

9 hours ago, ethrayn said:

 

Sometimes, people *have* the bottle half empty, due to their own misfortune.

 

 

There are a lot of cracks one can fall into in the system, including those in prisons.  Those who haven’t fallen into these cracks are blessed, and it’s good to protect oneself from being degraded by life—because I believe it could happen to any of us—no matter what our own self-confidence and comfort levels tell us about where we are at.  I do not like the current revision in our health system and think it caters to corporations and disadvantages the poor severely.

 

 

Yes, I do not like how Christian morality has been tied with capitalism in the Republican party.

 

 

Agreed.

 

As for the bottle half empty or full ,you either have that or you don't , no matter how poor you are .  It is an attitude to life ,to grace .  What I am saying is, that even when you do have this positive attitude you can fall through the cracks .  Instead of having 'charity ', better to have a  fair and  just system overall , and then when people do not take responsibility , one can be harder on them .  

As for christians who vote for the anti -christ personalities  , it makes me think they are not getting the 'message ' .

God hates greed and corruption .   They need to read  the Sermon on the Mount .

[Guest Thallasa]

3 hours ago, ethrayn said:

Americans do have it well in comparison to other countries, and sometimes, we here bring it on ourselves, but I also think that there are not enough protections in for our own fellow Americans who fall between the cracks into poverty.

 

Yep, you can become a manager via Wal-mart and have it good—one of the advantages of living in this country.

 

 

The American way does allow for advancement that doesn't exist elsewhere.  I haven’t looked enough to consider Obama anti-America during these recent years, but I do not like the health care act he passed at all.

 Your education service is declining  , the culture of McDonalds , Starbucks  ,Coca Cola , ra ra girls, and much more, is considered 'trash ' culture here ,as only the lowly educated use them :  so what exactly do you mean  by advancement ? 

 Who is brain washing you with this stuff  that you think that becoming a manager at Wallmart is one of the advantages of your country  ? This is very low level stuff in Europe ,and probably elsewhere too .

You can be a doctor ,architect ,multi millionaire ,the list is endless in Europe, but with LESS HYPE .  It is this lack of knowledge of other cultures , which is killing your country . You  do not have it well, compared to others .

For me a good cultured education   : no guns, so you are not afraid to walk most places , beautiful buildings ,a fair health service ,a good education system is what makes a better society . I think it is time to let go of the idea that the people in the States have it better than most ,for money cannot buy everything . 

[*Deidre*]

Paying people a livable wage is entirely doable in the US, commensurate upon work experience, education level, etc (not every job position in every industry should pay the same rate but one could still make a livable wage) if there were less unions, less or no outsourcing jobs to other countries, and less greed. The latter is the cause of the two former problems, unfortunately. How to regulate greed? I don't know if the government can do that, but it would be nice if they could. 

[Willa]

There is no disgrace in being poor.  It is a disgrace to think we are owed more than a minimum wage for a job that anyone off the street can do.  Traditionally people have worked 2 or 3 jobs to make that living wage, sometimes tragicly leaving the children unsupervised.  It is best when extended family can help with child care.   Likewise we should not act like spoiled brats demanding that the government provide our basic needs.

God is our provider.  God uses our misfortunes by giving us compassion for others enduring hardship.  He then motivates us to help others the way we have been helped in our times of need.  (2 Cor. 1)  We learn compassion and empathy.  It is something the rich often lack.  They sometimes can't relate.  

I do speak from experience and can relate to people enduring the hardship of barely being able to have enough for food.  We didn't even have food banks back then.

[*Deidre*]

54 minutes ago, Willa said:

There is no disgrace in being poor.  It is a disgrace to think we are owed more than a minimum wage for a job that anyone off the street can do.  Traditionally people have worked 2 or 3 jobs to make that living wage, sometimes tragicly leaving the children unsupervised.  It is best when extended family can help with child care.   Likewise we should not act like spoiled brats demanding that the government provide our basic needs.

God is our provider.  God uses our misfortunes by giving us compassion for others enduring hardship.  He then motivates us to help others the way we have been helped in our times of need.  (2 Cor. 1)  We learn compassion and empathy.  It is something the rich often lack.  They sometimes can't relate.  

I do speak from experience and can relate to people enduring the hardship of barely being able to have enough for food.  We didn't even have food banks back then.

That is true, but it still sad and disheartening to know that greed of corporate investors and execs..is one of the underlying reasons why some who work very hard, can never seem to make ends meet...I have read about companies who lay people off or let them go, so the top level execs can make bigger bonuses. That is wrong, in my eyes. Yes, God is our provider, but such an imbalance is wrong.

[Ezra]

3 hours ago, *Deidre* said:

 How to regulate greed? I don't know if the government can do that, but it would be nice if they could. 

The government is part of the problem (as usual). There are a number of ways that governments can ensure that wage earners earn a decent wage:

1. Stop government waste and overblown bureaucracies.

2. Cut down on overcompensating politicians and bureaucrats.

2. Eliminate deficit spending and government debt altogether.

3. Reduce taxes on businesses so that they can pay better wages.

4. Eliminate income taxes on individuals and families earning a basic living wages.

5. Provide incentives to businesses to engage in profit sharing.

6. Legislate a fair minimum wage to prevent exploitation.

7. Stop meddling in things that do not pertain to governing.

[Willa]

On 2/7/2016 at 9:01 PM, Ezra said:

The government is part of the problem (as usual). There are a number of ways that governments can ensure that wage earners earn a decent wage:

1. Stop government waste and overblown bureaucracies.

2. Cut down on overcompensating politicians and bureaucrats.

2. Eliminate deficit spending and government debt altogether.

3. Reduce taxes on businesses so that they can pay better wages.

4. Eliminate income taxes on individuals and families earning a basic living wages.

5. Provide incentives to businesses to engage in profit sharing.

6. Legislate a fair minimum wage to prevent exploitation.

7. Stop meddling in things that do not pertain to governing.

I agree.    But our minimum wage is about $10 per hour and the Seattle area is trying to push through their $15.00 per hour on the rest of the state.  This has pushed small businesses out of business, and in small towns where average wages are low, it would close most independant businesses making them ghost towns.  

We could definitely use a more equitable way of taxation.  But I am not sure what that might be.  

We are on fixed income and the cost of living increase has eaten up much of what we do get.  Our cost of medical insurance has increased by 50% since Obamacare kicked in.  That means that I am paying for other peoples free care, and we can't really afford it at an extra $200. Per month.   Since we are both disabled, we can't add to our income.  But God is our provider.  We have enough to eat and pay our bills so we are content.   But the Lord knows that we can no long give much to the poor so He has not directed us to do so this last year; (I discovered this when doing our taxes).  It makes me sad.

[Ezra]

2 hours ago, Willa said:

We are on fixed income and the cost of living increase has eaten up much of what we do get.  Our cost of medical insurance has increased by 50% since Obamacare kicked in.  

Willa,

I sincerely sympathize with your plight (which is true for many others). And it is totally avoidable. Disability compensation is a pittance when it should be reasonable.

 There is more than enough in the taxation system to cover healthcare for all without any extra cost. A flat tax of 10% would also be sufficient if all the other loopholes were closed off. The biggest culprit is government waste and spending on programs which should not even be supported.

If taxation of small businesses was drastically lowered, then the minimum wage could also be more affordable. So what I'm saying is that there are hundreds of ways to address these issues, provided the politicians have a desire to solve problems, instead of creating them.