fulfilled feasts

[Reinitin]

On 2/7/2016 at 8:39 AM, Qnts2 said:

 

The day of atonement sacrifice. I'm pretty sure it is the slaughter of Jerusalem's enemies. You know the blood up to the horses bridles and the birds eat from the flesh? There are prophetic scriptures that call the men slaughtered on this day rams, cows goats and sheep for sacrifice. The prophets talk about the blood and the fat just like that day is a day greater then the sacrifice david or solomon made unto the Lord. I can find the scriptures later I'm pretty sure one of them that tells us about this slaughter the Lords sacrifice for israel to make atonement also tells us all the symbols of worshiping other gods will be destroyed and Israel will bow to Christ. I will find the scriptures when I get home from work. Anyway I'm pretty sure its the blood and fat of God's enemies and some of Israel in that final battle that is offered by our High priest and his priesthood up to God to cleanse the sin of this world on that day of atonement.

Edited February 8, 2016 by Reinitin

[WilliamL]

On 2/6/2016 at 10:27 PM, Joline said:

How can some deny the day of atonement being fulfilled in Christ Jesus? Did he or did he not make an atonement for our sins? If so, then at least one of the fall feasts has been fulfilled.

Not quite, because the final acts of the Day of Atonement have not been fulfilled, as explained below.

1 hour ago, Shar said:

5 hours ago, thereselittleflower said:

Shar how can Yom Kippur be fulfilled without an atoning sacrifice?    Christ is already the atoning sacrifice.  This has already happened.

True, Jesus is the only atoning sacrifice.  When He returns, they recognize Him as the Messiah and believe on Him.  In that one day, they are saved.  Yom Kippur is also a time for afflicting your soul, confessing and repenting from one's sin.

This day will be the time of Israel's repentance.  When Jesus comes... Israel will look on Him whom they have pierced and MOURN for Him as one mourns for their only child.  Ze. 12-13.  The nation of Israel's sin will be dealt with in that one day.  He will cleanse the people and the nation from all their sins and impurities.  God promises will remember their sins no more.  On that day, God will pour out a spirit of grace and supplication upon His people.  God pours His atoning sacrifice on them.

Good points, and I agree, but there is more to it.

20 hours ago, Joline said:

Hebrews here is speaking of the day of atonement specifically. 

9:23  It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
24  For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:
25  Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;
26  For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
27  And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
28  So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

Leviticus 16, which provides the law for the Day of Atonement, tells us that the High Priest must enter the Holy of Holies TWICE:  once for himself and the priests, and the second time for the people.

When Jesus rose from the dead, he did not allow Mary M. to touch him, because he had not yet risen to the Father. John 20:17 That was his first entrance into the Holy of Holies for himself:

Heb. 9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption.

The Greek verb for "having obtained" is in the middle voice. "The middle voice indicates the subject performing an action upon himself (reflexive action) or for his own benefit." BLB  Jesus here fulfilled the first entering into and exit from the Holy of Holies for himself, the High Priest of the heavenly sanctuary.

He then re-entered the heavenly sanctuary for us, but he has not yet returned the second time. Therefore, the full conditions of the Day of Atonement have not yet been fulfilled.

[Qnts2]

15 minutes ago, Shar said:

Thanks Q.  Sticking to my vegetarian and fish diet.  LOL

I live in an area where farmers are close enough to buy directly from the farmer. Hopefully, you are close enough to find a farmer who sells meat and will let you know when something is freshly slaughtered. If you can, broiling or using the BBQ is also effective to remove blood.   

[Qnts2]

5 minutes ago, mevosper said:

Seems to me the fall feasts have been fulfilled by Christ? Agree/Disagree?

 

Feast of Trumpets (Lev 23:24, Num 29:1-6)

1. Israel’s 5th holy day

   1. a day of sounding trumpets in the temple and throughout the land of Israel

   2. only holiday in which the moon is dark (new moon) (The Feasts of the LORD, page 105; Kevin Howard, Marvin Rosenthal )

2. FULFILLMENT

   1. Christ’s birth

      1. “Trumpeted” by Angels to Shepherds (Luke 2:8-14)

      2. Introduced as the Christ (Messiah)  (Luke 2:11)

      3. “Trumpeted” by the shepherds abroad (Luke 2:17-20)

      4. “King of the Jews” wise men from the East (Matt 2:2)

      5. He has his own star (Matt 2:2)

      6. Emmanuel (God with us)

         1. Prophecy: Isa 7:14

         2. Fulfillment: Matt 1:23

 

 

Day of Atonement

1. Israel’s 6th holy day

   1. 10th day of the 7th month

   2. [Lev 23:29 KJV] [29] For whatsoever soul it be that shall not be afflicted in that same day, he shall be cut off from among his people.

2. Christ’s Fulfillment

   1. “And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of Heaven is at hand” (Mat 3:2)

   2. “Behold, The lamb of God which taketh away the sin of the world” (John 1:29, 36)

   3. “From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent for the kingdom of heaven is at hand” (Mat 4:17)

   4. “...prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight” (Mat 3:3, Mark 1:3, Luk 3:4, John 1:23)

 

 

 

Feast of Tabernacles

1. [Lev 23:40 KJV] And ye shall take you on the first day the boughs of goodly trees, branches of palm trees, and the boughs of thick trees, and willows of the brook; and ye shall rejoice before the LORD your God seven days.

2. Christ’s fulfillment

   1. Blessed be the LORD God of Israel for he hath visited and redeemed his people (Luke 1:68)

   2. Kingdom of God is come unto you (Matt 12:28)

   3. The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand (Mark 1:15)

   4. “thou are the son of God” (Mark 3:11)

   5. “...and say unto them The kingdom of God is come nigh unto you” (Luke 10:9)

   6. “...no doubt the kingdom of God is come upon you” (Luke 11:20)

   7. “...for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.” (Luke 17:21)

   8. “.and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us” (Matt 1:23)

   9. "Took branches of palm trees, and went forth to meet him, and cried, Hosanna: Blessed is the King of Israel that cometh in the name of the Lord." (John 12:13)

 

 

I disagree.

The feasts in the spring were fulfilled on the day of the feast, and in order. Your 'fulfillments' do not follow the example of the spring feasts, which are very clear in fulfillment. 

 

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, WilliamL said:

Not quite, because the final acts of the Day of Atonement have not been fulfilled, as explained below.

Good points, and I agree, but there is more to it.

Leviticus 16, which provides the law for the Day of Atonement, tells us that the High Priest must enter the Holy of Holies TWICE:  once for himself and the priests, and the second time for the people.

When Jesus rose from the dead, he did not allow Mary M. to touch him, because he had not yet risen to the Father. John 20:17 That was his first entrance into the Holy of Holies for himself:

Heb. 9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption.

The Greek verb for "having obtained" is in the middle voice. "The middle voice indicates the subject performing an action upon himself (reflexive action) or for his own benefit." BLB  Jesus here fulfilled the first entering into and exit from the Holy of Holies for himself, the High Priest of the heavenly sanctuary.

He then re-entered the heavenly sanctuary for us, but he has not yet returned the second time. Therefore, the full conditions of the Day of Atonement have not yet been fulfilled.

 

10 minutes ago, WilliamL said:

Not quite, because the final acts of the Day of Atonement have not been fulfilled, as explained below.

Good points, and I agree, but there is more to it.

Leviticus 16, which provides the law for the Day of Atonement, tells us that the High Priest must enter the Holy of Holies TWICE:  once for himself and the priests, and the second time for the people.

When Jesus rose from the dead, he did not allow Mary M. to touch him, because he had not yet risen to the Father. John 20:17 That was his first entrance into the Holy of Holies for himself:

Heb. 9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption.

The Greek verb for "having obtained" is in the middle voice. "The middle voice indicates the subject performing an action upon himself (reflexive action) or for his own benefit." BLB  Jesus here fulfilled the first entering into and exit from the Holy of Holies for himself, the High Priest of the heavenly sanctuary.

He then re-entered the heavenly sanctuary for us, but he has not yet returned the second time. Therefore, the full conditions of the Day of Atonement have not yet been fulfilled.

Christ Jesus does not need to enter in twice. It was a one time sacrifice, once for all.

[mevosper]

Q - The following information was taken from a website (http://biblelight.net/sukkoth.htm), in which the author goes into detail in determining the time of Christ's birth. As we know from Luke, Christ began his ministry at about the age of 30.

Quote

Since Jesus was conceived six months after John the Baptist, and we have established a likely date for John's birth, we need only move six months farther down the Jewish calendar to arrive at a likely date for the birth of Jesus. From the 15th day of the 1st month, Nisan, we go to the 15th day of the 7th month, Tishri. And what do we find on that date? It is the festival of Tabernacles! The 15th day of Tishri begins the third and last festival of the year to which all the men of Israel were to gather in Jerusalem for Temple services. (Lev 23:34)

 

It is such a shame that there are those, even when the evidence is presented plain as day, that would believe Christ's first visit did not accomplish all that God proclaimed it would. I would have you to believe that there is nothing else that Christ needs to fulfill.

[Shar]

13 hours ago, Qnts2 said:

I specified Messianic Jews, as I am aware that other people who call themselves Messianic do claim to keep the Mosaic law. I have disagreed with many as even the way they claim to keep the food laws are often seriously flawed as they do not deal with the blood which is in supermarket meat. Supermarket meat has not had the blood entirely removed and is too old to remove the remaining blood. If I kept the food laws as I used to prior to believing on Jesus, I would not eat in their homes.

For those who claim to keep the dietary laws, but do not really keep them, I am at a quandry as to whether I would eat in their homes. Since I know they are not keeping the dietary laws, do I eat with them and accept the false statement, or do I ignore their false statement and go ahead and eat. I have not been invited over to eat, and if that ever happens, I'm not sure what I would do.  

Q, I agree that there are certain Messianics that claim they keep the Mosaic Law.  However, like there are many types of Baptists (Free-Will, Independent, Southern, Primitive, etc.), there are many types of Messianics.  Some believe that they should actually go through all 613 commandments and pick out what should and should not be upheld, even to an extreme orthodox manner.  Some definitely don't even try to go there.

Some believe the Messianic Jew has a different set of requirements regarding the Mosaic Law than does the Gentile Messianic.  It goes on and on to certain congregations and their differences.  So, when someone ask if I am Messianic, I ask them what do you mean? I need to know what they have come to fully or erroneously understand before I answer.

I believe the biggest confusion comes with the word "law".  Our English translations are so inadequate because they use the word "law" for the law from which we have been freed.  YEA!  However, they use the word "law" for what is actually referred to as teachings.  We then erroneously conclude that because the word "law" is used, it is always negative, even when it refers to God teachings.

Those teachings are our guidelines and to keep us on the straight and narrow.  I may even use some of the Mosaic Law as a guideline.  For instance, stealing.   Suppose my child stole from someone while spending the night with her friend.  I may want to look at Ex.22:7 as a guideline.  "...if the thief is caught, he should pay double."  Even though this verse does not specifically address the exact act, as I described, it may be a good lesson to my child for stealing.  Or, maybe I will use Pro.6:31 and make her pay back sevenfold.

[Guest]

18 minutes ago, mevosper said:

Q - The following information was taken from a website (http://biblelight.net/sukkoth.htm), in which the author goes into detail in determining the time of Christ's birth. As we know from Luke, Christ began his ministry at about the age of 30.

 

It is such a shame that there are those, even when the evidence is presented plain as day, that would believe Christ's first visit did not accomplish all that God proclaimed it would. I would have you to believe that there is nothing else that Christ needs to fulfill.

I agree with you in many respects. This subject concerns the power of his resurrection. He is not a priest on the earth. His priesthood began when he entered the true tabernacle in heaven. Of which the earthly worldly tabernacle was a mere shadow or pattern. As scripture says, if Christ is not raised you are still dead in your sins. His work did not cease when he died. Rather the power of his heavenly ministry began after he was raised.

Edited February 8, 2016 by Joline

[Qnts2]

3 minutes ago, mevosper said:

Q - The following information was taken from a website (http://biblelight.net/sukkoth.htm), in which the author goes into detail in determining the time of Christ's birth. As we know from Luke, Christ began his ministry at about the age of 30.

 

It is such a shame that there are those, even when the evidence is presented plain as day, that would believe Christ's first visit did not accomplish all that God proclaimed it would. I would have you to believe that there is nothing else that Christ needs to fulfill.

There are several problems with the proposed day being the Feast of Tabernacles.

The first would be the assumed date of the John the Baptists birth. Of course the author does say 'likely' and does not make it a firm timing. The date for John the Baptist is calculated based on the fact that John's father was a priest, who was a member of the order of Abiyah. There are 24 orders, and the orders serve in the Temple on rotation for 1 week. Since there are 24 orders, each order serves twice a year, plus all orders serve on especially busy Holy Days like the week of Passover. So, we have two approximate times when John's father served based on his order. And then, we do not know exactly how long it took to get home or for his wife to become pregnant. 

The other issue would be some information we have about the birth of Jesus. There were shepherds tending their flocks in the hills. The area of Bethlehem is a arid region, and mild climate. In dry season everything turns brown and stops growing. During the dry season, shepherds do not take their sheep out into the hills, because there is nothing for the flocks to eat. The dry season is approximately from June/July thru October. The rainy season doesn't start until the beginning of November. So, at the time of the Feast of Tabernacles, it is at the end of a long dry season and no shepherds would be with their sheep in the hills.

While Jesus did everything necessary for salvation and that work is complete, I believe Jesus will return (after the fullness of the Gentiles come in), all of the living children of Israel will see Him and be saved, Jesus will defeat all of the armies attacking Israel, and then reign as King from Jerusalem for 1000 year. After the 1000 year reign, the bound demons and people who did not accept Jesus will be judges and caste into the lake of fire. After which, the New Heaven and New Earth will come down.     

[Shar]

8 minutes ago, mevosper said:

Q - The following information was taken from a website (http://biblelight.net/sukkoth.htm), in which the author goes into detail in determining the time of Christ's birth. As we know from Luke, Christ began his ministry at about the age of 30.

 

It is such a shame that there are those, even when the evidence is presented plain as day, that would believe Christ's first visit did not accomplish all that God proclaimed it would. I would have you to believe that there is nothing else that Christ needs to fulfill.

Actually, there is much that Christ still has to fulfill that will occur with his second coming.  He has yet to fulfill all His Davidic promises to the nation of Israel and the Jewish people.  He has yet to take His reign for a thousand years on the Davidic throne in Jerusalem.  He has yet to take away the sins from the nation of Israel and cleanse the land.  He has yet to rule the nations.  Etc., etc., etc.  The Fall Feasts point to His second coming.