Is there such thing as a lukewarm Christian (a Christian, not a churchgoer)?

[Omegaman 3.0]

5 hours ago, Reinitin said:

yes, I think there are look warm confessors of christianity seating in churches wearing sheep's clothing and should take heed cause The Lord said "He will spit them out of His mouth".

those words were carefully chosen, precise, and I agree

[Guest]

48 minutes ago, Omegaman 3.0 said:

There was no premise, your understanding of what I said, is flawed! I  was only acknowledging, that being a Christian and going to church, are separate things. Most Christians probably go to church. Most Christians would be naturally interested in the things of God and they love thier family, their brothers and sisters in Christ. Church (the place) is something Christians do. Like other things that Christians do (charity, prayer, read the Bible), it is not what makes them a Christian. Other people, non-Christians, can pray, study, go to church, and give generously.

I am acknowledging that there is a difference, between those who call themselves Christians, and those who have saving faith, those who have a real relationship with God, because of the Son.

I cannot back this up, but if I had to make a guess, I would think that maybe 20% of the people who attend church where I attend church, are actually saved, but of course, only God knows what the real number is. That 20% guess, is twice as high as I have had for other churches I have attended, and I only attend churches which have sound teaching, Bible based, and demonstrate their committment to the things of God, by feeding and clothing the unfortuneate, put effort and resources into local and global outreach, have open finacial records.

Anyway, my real question is just "Can a genuine Christian be lukewarm?" If any implication should be taken from that, it would be in the form of other questions: "If you are lukewarm, are you confident that you are saved? If so, based on what?"

My mistake, sorry.

[Guest]

I think that a "lukewarm" Christian can be confident they are saved based on the fact, if they were sincere at their moment of profession of faith, that Jesus Christ died for their sins and accept His death as payment for their sins.

[thereselittleflower]

7 hours ago, Reinitin said:

yes, I think there are look warm confessors of christianity seating in churches wearing sheep's clothing and should take heed cause The Lord said "He will spit them out of His mouth".

 

Wolves in sheep's clothing are not sheep, but imposters.

How can wolves have been in Christ's mouth to spit out?  

Are you suggesting Christ doesn't know His own and has been deceived into accepting wolves in sheep's clothing as sheep?

 

 

[thereselittleflower]

1 hour ago, Omegaman 3.0 said:

There was no premise, your understanding of what I said, is flawed! I  was only acknowledging, that being a Christian and going to church, are separate things. Most Christians probably go to church. Most Christians would be naturally interested in the things of God and they love thier family, their brothers and sisters in Christ. Church (the place) is something Christians do. Like other things that Christians do (charity, prayer, read the Bible), it is not what makes them a Christian. Other people, non-Christians, can pray, study, go to church, and give generously.

I am acknowledging that there is a difference, between those who call themselves Christians, and those who have saving faith, those who have a real relationship with God, because of the Son.

I cannot back this up, but if I had to make a guess, I would think that maybe 20% of the people who attend church where I attend church, are actually saved, but of course, only God knows what the real number is. That 20% guess, is twice as high as I have had for other churches I have attended, and I only attend churches which have sound teaching, Bible based, and demonstrate their committment to the things of God, by feeding and clothing the unfortuneate, put effort and resources into local and global outreach, have open finacial records.

Anyway, my real question is just "Can a genuine Christian be lukewarm?" If any implication should be taken from that, it would be in the form of other questions: "If you are lukewarm, are you confident that you are saved? If so, based on what?"

And I think the answer is yes, a genuine christian can be lukewarm, for why would Christ have anyone other than a genuine Christian in His mouth?

To say they impostors are in Christ's mouth is tantamount, imho, to saying Christ can't distinguish between genuine believers and impostors.

I don't think Jesus is confused as to who are sheep and who are impostors.

 

 

 

[Omegaman 3.0]

41 minutes ago, Rick_Parker said:

My mistake, sorry.

O.K. thank you, not a problem. Mistakes happen, clearly my attempt to be clear, may actually have been confusing.

[Omegaman 3.0]

39 minutes ago, Rick_Parker said:

I think that a "lukewarm" Christian can be confident they are saved based on the fact, if they were sincere at their moment of profession of faith, that Jesus Christ died for their sins and accept His death as payment for their sins.

That could be true. I wonder though, if we can be certain of our own sincerity. I tend to think the the heart is evil and deceitful more than anything, and that none of us understands it. Is "sincerity" an emotion? Is the person who lives a life of drunkeness and womanizing, and finds himself sitting in a jail, scared, despondent, weeping feeling really sorry, who then cries out to the Lord there: "please Lord, I know I am a sinner, please forgive me, save me from my sins, thank you for dying for me", assured that he prayed with sincerity? What if next Friday night, he is back in a bar, hopeing to hook up with a woman? What is it that marks our sincerity, that should give us confidence in our salvation?

From got questions (sorry I am too sick and too slow at the moment to do my own work:

"The Parable of the Sower concerns a sower who scatters seed, which falls on four different types of ground. The hard ground “by the way side” prevents the seed from sprouting at all, and the seed becomes nothing more than bird food. The stony ground provides enough soil for the seeds to germinate and begin to grow, but because there is “no deepness of earth,” the plants do not take root and are soon withered in the sun. The thorny ground allows the seed to grow, but the competing thorns choke the life out of the beneficial plants. The good ground receives the seed and produces much fruit.

Jesus’ explanation of the Parable of the Sower highlights four different responses to the gospel. The seed is “the word of the kingdom.” The hard ground represents someone who is hardened by sin; he hears but does not understand the Word, and Satan plucks the message away, keeping the heart dull and preventing the Word from making an impression. The stony ground pictures a man who professes delight with the Word; however, his heart is not changed, and when trouble arises, his so-called faith quickly disappears. The thorny ground depicts one who seems to receive the Word, but whose heart is full of riches, pleasures, and lusts; the things of this world take his time and attention away from the Word, and he ends up having no time for it. The good ground portrays the one who hears, understands, and receives the Word—and then allows the Word to accomplish its result in his life. The man represented by the “good ground” is the only one of the four who is truly saved, because salvation’s proof is fruit (Matthew 3:7-8; 7:15-20).

To summarize the point of the Parable of the Sower: “A man’s reception of God’s Word is determined by the condition of his heart.” A secondary lesson would be “Salvation is more than a superficial, albeit joyful, hearing of the gospel. Someone who is truly saved will go on to prove it.” May our faith and our lives exemplify the "good soil" in the Parable of the Sower."

Would you agree with their points that I bolded?

I think yes, God looks on the heart, but I suspect that the sincere heart produces fruit. In Matt 3 we read of John the immerser:

7  But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming for baptism, he said to them, “You brood of vipers, who warned you to flee from the wrath to come? 8“Therefore bear fruit in keeping with repentance; 9and do not suppose that you can say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham for our father’; for I say to you that from these stones God is able to raise up children to Abraham. 10“The axe is already laid at the root of the trees; therefore every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.

I am going out on a limb here, but I am not convinced that a modern day Johh could not say:

"Bear fruit in keeping with repentance. Being sorry, is not repentance, repentance is changing direction. Do not say to yourselves, that 'we were sincere when we prayed for salvation'! Prove your salvation, by how you live, how else can you measure your sincerity?"

We are saved by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone. However, saving faith is not alone, it is accompanied by the works that natually flow out of a changed heart. I am not sure that a changed heart, would be bored of God, that sounds like a natural, worldly heart, to me!

Mind you, I am not implying that Christians do not have periods of doubt, we can. Not saying there are not times, when we become lax in Bible reading and prayer, and acts of charity, we do. Not saying that all of the sins we used to commit, just fall away, and no longer temp us.

What I am saying is, that a Christian, is one who is becoming more like Christ. If that does not describe us, then I think we are foolish to be confident in our salvation. We should heed all the dire warnings of scripture, consider whether they apply to us, personally, as individuals. Am I a person who has been becoming more like Christ, for more than 3 decades? Is there evidence of that? If not, why not? Am I a new creature, or just the old creature, with a new act? If the latter, I might deceive others, I can even delude myself, but I won't fool God!

Certainly, if I think myself to be lukewarm, I should be afraid, very afraid, or am I wrong about that?

[Guest]

Yes, we can. I am certain of mine. I was even certain when I fell and lived in the world for a season. I knew I was saved, even though I was outside the will of GOD and HIS blessings.

[Ezra]

22 hours ago, Omegaman 3.0 said:

I know there are tares, I know there are self-deluded people. My question is there a person, who has saving faith, who is lukewarm. Can a person actually grasp what God has done for him/her, in Christ, and lack enthusiasm about it?

Certainly.

[Ezra]

1 hour ago, Omegaman 3.0 said:

That could be true. I wonder though, if we can be certain of our own sincerity.

It is not our own "sincerity" which saves us. God saves the sinner who calls upon the name of the Lord, "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved".  How "sincere" were those Israelites who looked upon the Brazen Serpent and were delivered from certain death? A drowning man simply reaches out to the person or object that could save him.