pre trib rapture is fake true or false

[Last Daze]

15 hours ago, HAZARD said:

Again, you just refuse to believe what you read, if you read any of it at all,

Yeah, that's just gotta be it.

One day, the pretrib notion will fail and those who were deceived by her beauty and smooth words will find themselves in the great tribulation suddenly confronted with a life or death decision.  Its my prayer that if you won't see it now, that you will realize it when its happening and persevere in faithfulness.

• What I say to you I say to all, ‘Be on the alert!’  Mark 13:37

[Montana Marv]

13 hours ago, ENOCH2010 said:

In my Fathers house are many mansions, I go to prepair a place for you. The Bible says the Fathers house is coming here. Where is it in the Bible that says we are going to heaven.

Enoch

Scripture does not say the Fathers house is coming here, It says the New Jerusalem is coming here.  Now Rev 4 is a glimpse into heaven.  Day and night the four living creatures never stopped saying "Holy, holy, holy is the Lord God Almighty, who was, and is, and is to come".  So they have been doing this since they were created.  And they were worshiping He who sat on the Throne (God the Father).  Now since they have been worshiping God since their creation, and Sin has since entered into creation, what happens after Death and Hades and all sin have been cast into the Lake of Fire.  A New Heaven and a New Earth are prepared, then the New Jerusalem comes down from Heaven.  And this is where God the Father will reside with men.

Now where did Jesus Christ go after he ascended, Into heaven to sit at the Right Hand of God the Father.

Who are the 24 elders in Rev 4.  Who ascended on high with Jesus?  Eph 4:8 - When He ascended on high, he led captives in his train and gave gifts to men.  Who were these captives?, but those who resided in Paradise (Bosom of Abraham) across from Hades, inside the earth.  Where did they go, into Heaven with Jesus.

And as Paul says in Phil 3:20 - But our citizenship is in heaven, and we eagerly await a Savior from there.  So why would our citizenship be in heaven if do not make it there?  Kind of Odd, is it not.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Montana Marv]

1 hour ago, Last Daze said:

Yeah, that's just gotta be it.

One day, the pretrib notion will fail and those who were deceived by her beauty and smooth words will find themselves in the great tribulation suddenly confronted with a life or death decision.  Its my prayer that if you won't see it now, that you will realize it when its happening and persevere in faithfulness.

• What I say to you I say to all, ‘Be on the alert!’  Mark 13:37

Many Christians are in a life and death situation now, So what is the difference between now and into the near future.  The main change will be the beast, false prophet and the mark of the breast.  We are to be on the alert NOW.  Not 2 to 7 years from now.  Those who are not eagerly waiting for the Bridegroom now, will be left behind when He comes for His Bride.  Those left behind will be the five foolish virgins.  Will you be one of them?  And the Door was Shut.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Last Daze]

27 minutes ago, Montana Marv said:

Many Christians are in a life and death situation now, So what is the difference between now and into the near future.  The main change will be the beast, false prophet and the mark of the beast.  We are to be on the alert NOW.  Not 2 to 7 years from now.  Those who are not eagerly waiting for the Bridegroom now, will be left behind when He comes for His Bride.  Those left behind will be the five foolish virgins.  Will you be one of them?  And the Door was Shut.

In Christ

Montana Marv

Please qualify the term "eagerly waiting".   If you can't, then how do you know if will you be one of them?

[Montana Marv]

28 minutes ago, Last Daze said:

Please qualify the term "eagerly waiting".   If you can't, then how do you know if will you be one of them?

I have been Justified, I am the process of being Sanctified (renewing on a daily basis).  I have been saved by Grace and not by Works.  Christ dwells in me, and I am Him.  Christ has given me the Holy Spirit.  I am one of the many, many parts of the Bride/Church/Body of Christ.  So, yes I am eagerly waiting to be with Him in Heavenly Places; In Body or in Spirit upon Death.  Christ is the Hope of our Salvation.  Do you not want to be where He/Jesus now resides?  How many more tests must you go through before you become worthy.  If you say, just one more test from God; your Salvation is based on Works.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Serving]

20 hours ago, HAZARD said:

Personally It's not my worry or responsibility to even care what you believe or do.

There are many verses given in support of a pretrib rapture., Its you who have contributed nothing to support your personal pet theory. 

The purpose of the rapture is to resurrect the just from the dead and take all the saints out of the world before the tribulation comes, in order that they may have fulfilled in them the purpose for which God has saved them. Jesus told the disciples that some would escape the terrible things that were to transpire on the Earth in the last days. He said, “Pray that you many be accounted worthy to escape all these things of,  Matt. 24, 25; Luke 21:1-19, 25-28, that shall come to pass, and stand before the Son of man,”  Luke 21:34-36. These two passages in Luke 21:34-36 and John 14:1-3 are the only ones in the Gospels that are clear concerning the Rapture.. Jesus did not reveal this, it was revealed by Paul many years later in 1 Cor. 15:51. The disciples did not have the slightest idea as to how they were to escape, unless they thought that Christ would deliver them from these things through His power. The how was not revealed or even mentioned before Paul explained how they were to escape.

Hi Hazard,

Friend, you just applied two assumptions to justify an assumption to a problem that just does not exist .. look :

 (1) "The disciples did not have the slightest idea as to how they were to escape, (2) unless they thought that Christ would deliver them from these things through His power. (3) The how was not revealed or even mentioned before Paul explained how they were to escape."  

So I ask you Hazard, HOW can we KNOW HOW to be "accounted worthy" in your method which, according to you, even the Apostles apparently hadn't "the slightest idea how they were to escape" except to provide us with an assumed answer to an assumed problem based on two other assumptions which answer you assume is the rapture ???? and then be expected to accept your solution by providing scriptures that speak of the 2nd coming and not the rapture at all ?? and all this related to a non existent problem YOU ASSUMED was present but which is in fact ALREADY UNDERSTOOD.

You just can't discern scriptures using a method like that Hazard.

So in the spirit of sharing, let me introduce the reasons apparently "not revealed or even mentioned" that will INFORM us HOW to be "accounted worthy" to "escape" those "things that shall come to pass" of which thing the Apostles most definitely were aware of .. which things SHOULD help you see what Jesus meant by "escape" opposed to what you assumed He meant :

Romans 2:3 And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?

It has to do with our spiritual CONDITION that causes us to escape the judgement of God .. our escape is our not only being IN the Lord .. but PRACTISING what we preach.

2 Peter 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

SEE? .. God's WORD (partaking of the divine NATURE) is the "escape" Hazard .. "pray" we are "counted worthy" to know Christ .. because by KNOWING and PRACTISING His truth, which truth "sets us free" .. and if it "sets us free" .. then we have "escaped" the LIE which LIE leads to corruption that is in the world which ultimately leads to wrath/destruction of whose spiritual implications we most definitely hope to escape .. it has nothing at all to do with a so called "rapture". 

Hebrews 2:1-4

1 Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let them slip.

2 For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward;

3 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;

4 God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?

See? The escape is actually the SALVATION that is found in the knowledge of the Lord

2 Peter 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

The knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ Himself is the escape Jesus intended in  Luke 21:36 all along friend and always has been .. pray you are counted worthy to know the Lord which provides the escape to the deception that is in the world and the wrath which is consequential to that deception.

[Paradigm]

9 minutes ago, Serving said:

Hi Hazard,

Friend, you just applied two assumptions to justify an assumption to a problem that just does not exist .. look :

 (1) "The disciples did not have the slightest idea as to how they were to escape, (2) unless they thought that Christ would deliver them from these things through His power. (3) The how was not revealed or even mentioned before Paul explained how they were to escape."  

So I ask you Hazard, HOW can we KNOW HOW to be "accounted worthy" in your method which, according to you, even the Apostles apparently hadn't "the slightest idea how they were to escape" except to provide us with an assumed answer to an assumed problem based on two other assumptions which answer you assume is the rapture ???? and then be expected to accept your solution by providing scriptures that speak of the 2nd coming and not the rapture at all ?? and all this related to a non existent problem YOU ASSUMED was present but which is in fact ALREADY UNDERSTOOD.

You just can't discern scriptures using a method like that Hazard.

So in the spirit of sharing, let me introduce the reasons apparently "not revealed or even mentioned" that will INFORM us HOW to be "accounted worthy" to "escape" those "things that shall come to pass" of which thing the Apostles most definitely were aware of .. which things SHOULD help you see what Jesus meant by "escape" opposed to what you assumed He meant :

Romans 2:3 And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?

It has to do with our spiritual CONDITION that causes us to escape the judgement of God .. our escape is our not only being IN the Lord .. but PRACTISING what we preach.

2 Peter 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

SEE? .. God's WORD (partaking of the divine NATURE) is the "escape" Hazard .. "pray" we are "counted worthy" to know Christ .. because by KNOWING and PRACTISING His truth, which truth "sets us free" .. and if it "sets us free" .. then we have "escaped" the LIE which LIE leads to corruption that is in the world which ultimately leads to wrath/destruction of whose spiritual implications we most definitely hope to escape .. it has nothing at all to do with a so called "rapture". 

Hebrews 2:1-4

1 Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let them slip.

2 For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward;

3 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;

4 God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?

See? The escape is actually the SALVATION that is found in the knowledge of the Lord

2 Peter 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

The knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ Himself is the escape Jesus intended in  Luke 21:36 all along friend and always has been .. pray you are counted worthy to know the Lord which provides the escape to the deception that is in the world and the wrath which is consequential to that deception.

Well stated Serving. 

[Serving]

3 minutes ago, Paradigm said:

Well stated Serving. 

Thanks Paradigm.

[Serving]

2 hours ago, Montana Marv said:

Many Christians are in a life and death situation now, So what is the difference between now and into the near future.  The main change will be the beast, false prophet and the mark of the breast.  We are to be on the alert NOW.  Not 2 to 7 years from now.  Those who are not eagerly waiting for the Bridegroom now, will be left behind when He comes for His Bride.  Those left behind will be the five foolish virgins.  Will you be one of them?  And the Door was Shut.

In Christ

Montana Marv

That's irrelevant MM, because, as you said, ONLY "many Christians are in a life and death situation right now" .. meaning .. not all Christians are .. yet.

The mark of the beast however will see EVERY CHRISTIAN world wide and at the SAME TIME suffering the SAME life and death situations with MOST of them sharing the SAME fate .. execution by BEHEADING.

And that is most definitely NOT the same. 

[Last Daze]

55 minutes ago, Montana Marv said:

I have been Justified, I am the process of being Sanctified (renewing on a daily basis).  I have been saved by Grace and not by Works.  Christ dwells in me, and I am Him.  Christ has given me the Holy Spirit.  I am one of the many, many parts of the Bride/Church/Body of Christ.  So, yes I am eagerly waiting to be with Him in Heavenly Places; In Body or in Spirit upon Death.  Christ is the Hope of our Salvation.  Do you not want to be where He/Jesus now resides?  How many more tests must you go through before you become worthy.  If you say, just one more test from God; your Salvation is based on Works.

In Christ

Montana Marv

Please knock it off with the loaded questions.  I never said anything about becoming worthy by going through tests.  I don't know where you got your characterization of post-tribbers but you are doing yourself a disservice by believing a false stereotype.

• Beloved, do not be surprised at the fiery ordeal among you, which comes upon you for your testing, as though some strange thing were happening to you; but to the degree that you share the sufferings of Christ, keep on rejoicing, so that also at the revelation of His glory you may rejoice with exultation.  1 Peter 4:12-13

Don't be surprised when the great tribulation comes upon you for your testing.  It's not a strange thing to suffer because the world hates you.  They hated Christ too.  Are you greater than your Master?