Could we know God and salvation by only the TANAKH ?

[simplejeff]

Turn to ME Yahweh says to those HE wants to say it to.  Turn to ME and LIVE.

No one HAS to turn to HIM.  Most never do.  

They keep going on their way living just like always.

Even the people HE called and chose for HIMSELF kept rebelling against HIM.

They kept seeking that which was pleasing to the eyes, pleasing to the flesh, and pleasing to the world.

So,  HE gave them a choice - chose ME or chose the world. Almost all of them chose the world.

He gives the same choice TODAY. ... ... ...

 

[Willa]

Rom 4:18  In hope he believed against hope, that he should become the father of many nations, as he had been told, "So shall your offspring be."

Rom 4:19  He did not weaken in faith when he considered his own body, which was as good as dead (since he was about a hundred years old), or when he considered the barrenness of Sarah's womb.

Rom 4:20  No unbelief made him waver concerning the promise of God, but he grew strong in his faith as he gave glory to God,

Rom 4:21  fully convinced that God was able to do what he had promised.

Rom 4:22  That is why his faith was "counted to him as righteousness."

Rom 4:23  But the words "it was counted to him" were not written for his sake alone,

Rom 4:24  but for ours also. It will be counted to us who believe in him who raised from the dead Jesus our Lord,

Rom 4:25  who was delivered up for our trespasses and raised for our justification.

 

Abraham was justified by faith in God's promises.  We are justified by faith in the resurrection of Jesus Christ.  David found favor with God as well and is called a man after God's own Heart. The Old Testament saints looked to the coming of the Messiah in faith.  We look back to the death and resurrection of Jesus and are also justified by our faith.    We all look to the grace of God.  

The biggest difference is that believers today are indwelled by the Holy Spirit.  Christ lives in us.  Together we are the body of Christ and the temple of the Holy Spirit.  In the Old Testament believers were not indwelled by Christ.  At times the Holy Spirit came upon people to empower them for special purposes, but Christ did not live in them.  That is why David prayed "and take not thy Holy Spirit from me".  He came and left people in the Old Testament.  Today we are adopted into God's family when we receive Christ and surrender to Him as Lord of our lives.  

NOTE THAT JESUS WAS THE ONLY PERSON WHO WAS ABLE TO KEEP THE LAW.  He did it perfectly, obeying the Father even to death on the cross.  Only He was without sin.  Salvation be the law was contingent on people keeping the law perfectly.  It is the schoolmaster that leads us to acknowledge our need of a Savior.

[simplejeff]

Yahshua is the only One Who kept the TORAH perfectly.

TORAH is in the OT and the NT many times.

Others, OT and NT , kept the TORAH faithfully (("faithfully", not perfectly )).

Salvation was never possibly via TORAH, even though forgiveness was.

See what happens all through the OT and the NT, right through Revelation, to the lawless ones.

It's not pretty....

[Retrobyter]

20 hours ago, SINNERSAVED said:

okay we talk about following Jesus in the new testament, and we talk about the crucifixion that he went to the cross and His blood was shed to save us and salvation is given to us and so we have the teachings of Jesus and the stories of the church , and the blood of the lamb of God, we have parables of the kingdom, and how we are to be in spirit , and grace is come to us by Jesus the son of God, we claim to be christains for those that follow the bible,

so lets put the whole new testament to the side completely !!! , and see if we that call our selves believers, are able to know the God we serve , to know that there is salvation, and to know that if we did not have a NT, that we would be able to come to God by the tanakh the old test holy scriptures, just with this only , would our belief and faith be the same ?

I am looking for serious scriptures that would make me be a believer today , from the old test,.?

can it be done, ? and still be a strong and true believer, ?

thank you and blessings and peace to all ......

Shalom, SINNERSAVED.

How about these verses?

Jeremiah 17:9
9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
KJV

Isaiah 1:18
18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.
KJV

Psalm 32:1-5
1 Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered.
2 Blessed is the man unto whom the Lord imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile.
3 When I kept silence, my bones waxed old through my roaring all the day long.
4 For day and night thy hand was heavy upon me: my moisture is turned into the drought of summer. Selah.
5 I acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the Lord; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah.
KJV

Isaiah 52:5-10
5 Now therefore, what have I here, saith the LORD, that my people is taken away for nought? they that rule over them make them to howl, saith the LORD; and my name continually every day is blasphemed.
6 Therefore my people shall know my name: therefore they shall know in that day that I am he that doth speak: behold, it is I.
7 How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of him that bringeth good tidings, that publisheth peace; that bringeth good tidings of good, that publisheth salvation; that saith unto Zion, Thy God reigneth!
8 Thy watchmen shall lift up the voice; with the voice together shall they sing: for they shall see eye to eye, when the LORD shall bring again Zion.
9 Break forth into joy, sing together, ye waste places of Jerusalem: for the LORD hath comforted his people, he hath redeemed Jerusalem.
10 The LORD hath made bare his holy arm in the eyes of all the nations; and all the ends of the earth shall see the salvation of our God.
KJV

Isaiah 53:1-12
1 Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the Lord revealed?
2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.
3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.
8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.
9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.
10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
KJV

Isaiah 54:8
8 In a little wrath I hid my face from thee for a moment; but with everlasting kindness will I have mercy on thee, saith the LORD thy Redeemer.
KJV

Isaiah 55:1-11
1 Ho, every one that thirsteth, come ye to the waters, and he that hath no money; come ye, buy, and eat; yea, come, buy wine and milk without money and without price.
2 Wherefore do ye spend money for that which is not bread? and your labour for that which satisfieth not? hearken diligently unto me, and eat ye that which is good, and let your soul delight itself in fatness.
3 Incline your ear, and come unto me: hear, and your soul shall live; and I will make an everlasting covenant with you, even the sure mercies of David.
4 Behold, I have given him for a witness to the people, a leader and commander to the people.
5 Behold, thou shalt call a nation that thou knowest not, and nations that knew not thee shall run unto thee because of the LORD thy God, and for the Holy One of Israel; for he hath glorified thee.
6 Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near:
7 Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.
8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
10 For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater:
11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.
KJV

Job 19:23-27
23 Oh that my words were now written! oh that they were printed in a book!
24 That they were graven with an iron pen and lead in the rock for ever!
25 For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:
26 And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:
27 Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another; though my reins be consumed within me.
KJV

Psalm 118:8-29
8 It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man.
9 It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in princes.
10 All nations compassed me about: but in the name of the LORD will I destroy them.
11 They compassed me about; yea, they compassed me about: but in the name of the LORD I will destroy them.
12 They compassed me about like bees; they are quenched as the fire of thorns: for in the name of the LORD I will destroy them.
13 Thou hast thrust sore at me that I might fall: but the LORD helped me.
14 The LORD is my strength and song, and is become my salvation.
15 The voice of rejoicing and salvation is in the tabernacles of the righteous: the right hand of the LORD doeth valiantly.
16 The right hand of the LORD is exalted: the right hand of the LORD doeth valiantly.
17 I shall not die, but live, and declare the works of the LORD.
18 The Lord hath chastened me sore: but he hath not given me over unto death.
19 Open to me the gates of righteousness: I will go into them, and I will praise the LORD:
20 This gate of the LORD, into which the righteous shall enter.
21 I will praise thee: for thou hast heard me, and art become my salvation.
22 The stone which the builders refused is become the head stone of the corner.
23 This is the LORD'S doing; it is marvellous in our eyes.
24 This is the day which the LORD hath made; we will rejoice and be glad in it.
25 Save now, I beseech thee, O LORD: O LORD, I beseech thee, send now prosperity.
26 Blessed be he that cometh in the name of the Lord: we have blessed you out of the house of the LORD.
27 God is the LORD, which hath shewed us light: bind the sacrifice with cords, even unto the horns of the altar.
28 Thou art my God, and I will praise thee: thou art my God, I will exalt thee.
29 O give thanks unto the LORD; for he is good: for his mercy endureth for ever.
KJV

That should be a good start.

I should add that THESE are the Scriptures we use to witness to the Jews we encounter who are seeking the truth about the Messiah Yeshua`.

[SINNERSAVED]

Hello Retroyter,

I have to say, that  !! was really  awesome, !! and powerful, and it was like poetry , to listen to the sound, and how you have put this together, it was exactly what I was looking for, , I see that through this any one can if they meditate and believe can come to God and be saved, , for the scriptures of the old, have power and life in them to give a person life and hope, in all of there trials, and to know that you are able to show everyone, how I wanted to see something like this was just awesome,

thank you very much and blessings to you for giving us a great and holy sermon of God and His almighty power to lift us up, and to give us hope, grace and peace to you , thank you again, for making this happen .

[Qnts2]

15 minutes ago, SINNERSAVED said:

Hello Retroyter,

I have to say, that  !! was really  awesome, !! and powerful, and it was like poetry , to listen to the sound, and how you have put this together, it was exactly what I was looking for, , I see that through this any one can if they meditate and believe can come to God and be saved, , for the scriptures of the old, have power and life in them to give a person life and hope, in all of there trials, and to know that you are able to show everyone, how I wanted to see something like this was just awesome,

thank you very much and blessings to you for giving us a great and holy sermon of God and His almighty power to lift us up, and to give us hope, grace and peace to you , thank you again, for making this happen .

The OT did not offer life. It was a pointer to Jesus who gives life. No one is saved by the OT alone. People are saved through Jesus alone. The scripture in the OT is used in evangelism to show that Jesus is the prophesied Messiah, but to know that Jesus is the prophesied Messiah requires both the OT and as the NT gospels are the witness of Who Jesus is who fulfilled OT Messianic prophesy.   

[SINNERSAVED]

12 minutes ago, Qnts2 said:

The OT did not offer life. It was a pointer to Jesus who gives life. No one is saved by the OT alone. People are saved through Jesus alone. The scripture in the OT is used in evangelism to show that Jesus is the prophesied Messiah, but to know that Jesus is the prophesied Messiah requires both the OT and as the NT gospels are the witness of Who Jesus is who fulfilled OT Messianic prophesy.   

please read the scriptures provided by Retroyter for if we read the scriptures and meditate on them , what is it telling you, >?

 there is Grace in the old testament, it talks about the forgiving of transgressions and redemption, it is all there,

its a beautiful story of hope and knowing God is there , and He loves you , but we must humble our selves, its all there in just that post alone,

remember I was trying to get people to put aside just for a while the NT , just enough to focus on the words of God in the OT, this is what many do not do , and you will see another side of God, that resembles , the NT  and see what God has to say and How powerful the love for man is, His creation,

blessings

[simplejeff]

YAHWEH (((OFTEN))) revealed the TRUTH from HEAVEN BEFORE HE GAVE/BREATHED the NEW TESTAMENT..

even as HE had it be recorded showing this >>>

Yahshua , Peter and Stephen , and others, taught from MOSES and the PROPHETS and the PSALMS

correctly,    AND

Luke 24:26-44J.B. Phillips New Testament (PHILLIPS)

25-26 Then he spoke to them, “Aren’t you failing to understand, and slow to believe in all that the prophets have said? Was it not inevitable that Christ should suffer like that and so find his glory?”

27-29 Then, beginning with Moses and all the prophets, he explained to them everything in the scriptures that referred to himself. They were by now approaching the village to which they were going. He gave the impression that he meant to go on further, but they stopped him with the words, “Do stay with us. It is nearly evening and soon the day will be over.”

30-32 So he went indoors to stay with them. Then it happened! While he was sitting at table with them he took the loaf, gave thanks, broke it and passed it to them. Their eyes opened wide and they knew him! But he vanished from their sight. Then they said to each other, “Weren’t our hearts glowing while he was with us on the road, and when he made the scriptures so plain to us?”

33-34 And they got to their feet without delay and turned back to Jerusalem. There they found the eleven and their friends all together, full of the news—“The Lord is really risen—he has appeared to Simon now!”

35 Then they told the story of their walk, and how they recognised him when he broke the loaf.

Jesus suddenly appears to the disciples

36 And while they were still talking about these things, Jesus himself stood among them and said, “Peace be to you all!”

37 But they shrank back in terror for they thought they were seeing a ghost.

38-40 “Why are you so worried?” said Jesus, “and why do doubts arise in your minds? Look at my hands and feet—it is really I myself! Feel me and see; ghosts have no flesh or bones as you can see that I have.”

41 But while they still could not believe it through sheer joy and were quite bewildered, Jesus said to them, “Have you anything here to eat?”

42-44 They gave him a piece of broiled fish and part of a honeycomb which he took and ate before their eyes. Then he said, “Here and now are fulfilled the words that I told you when I was with you: that everything written about me in the Law of Moses and in the prophets and psalms must come true.”

J.B. Phillips New Testament (PHILLIPS)

 

----------------------------------------------

 

Expanded Bible (EXB)

16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the ·Christ [Messiah], the Son of the living God.”

17 Jesus answered, “You are blessed, Simon son of Jonah, because ·no person taught you that

[L flesh and blood did not reveal this to you].

[L But; Rather] My Father in heaven ·showed you who I am [revealed it].

------------------------------------

Even in the PSALMS >>

Psalm 25:14-15Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)

14 

Adonai relates intimately with those who fear him;
he makes them know his covenant.

15 

My eyes are always directed toward Adonai,
for he will free my feet from the net.

-------------------------------------------------and Stephen, a waiter on tables  >>>>

 

8 And Stephen, full of faith[b] and power, did great wonders and signs among the people.

 

15 And all who sat in the council, looking steadfastly at him, saw his face as the face of an angel.

 

Stephen the Martyr

54 When they heard these things they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed at him with their teeth. 55 But he, being full of the Holy Spirit, gazed into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God, 56 and said, “Look! I see the heavens opened and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God!”

57 Then they cried out with a loud voice, stopped their ears, and ran at him with one accord; 58 and they cast him out of the city and stoned him. And the witnesses laid down their clothes at the feet of a young man named Saul.

59 And they stoned Stephen as he was calling on God and saying, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.” 60 Then he knelt down and cried out with a loud voice, “Lord, do not charge them with this sin.” And when he had said this, he fell asleep.

--------------------------------------------

STEPHEN DID NOT WORRY, NOR FIGHT, NOR WAS HE DEPRESSED

42 minutes ago, Qnts2 said:

The OT did not offer life. It was a pointer to Jesus who gives life. No one is saved by the OT alone. People are saved through Jesus alone. The scripture in the OT is used in evangelism to show that Jesus is the prophesied Messiah, but to know that Jesus is the prophesied Messiah requires both the OT and as the NT gospels are the witness of Who Jesus is who fulfilled OT Messianic prophesy.   

Notice that many today with both OT and NT reject the MESSIAH YAHSHUA.

 

 

[Qnts2]

1 hour ago, SINNERSAVED said:

please read the scriptures provided by Retroyter for if we read the scriptures and meditate on them , what is it telling you, >?

 there is Grace in the old testament, it talks about the forgiving of transgressions and redemption, it is all there,

its a beautiful story of hope and knowing God is there , and He loves you , but we must humble our selves, its all there in just that post alone,

remember I was trying to get people to put aside just for a while the NT , just enough to focus on the words of God in the OT, this is what many do not do , and you will see another side of God, that resembles , the NT  and see what God has to say and How powerful the love for man is, His creation,

blessings

Yes, there is grace and hope in the OT. Grace in the sacrifices but the sacrifices do not give eternal salvation. Hope, in that almost every time there is judgement in the OT, it is followed by words of hope in a prophesy about the future Messiah.

I am trying to say that the OT points to the Messiah. It is only in the Messiah that there is eternal salvation. In the OT, there is temporal redemption but not eternal redemption. Knowing of God does not bring eternal salvation as Gods plan from the beginning is to offer eternal salvation thru Jesus the Messiah. Apart from Jesus, there is not eternal salvation and therefore no eternal hope. 

The book of Matthew is directed towards the Jewish people as it goes thru OT prophesy and shows how Jesus is the fulfillment. In the NT, whenever the Jewish people who lived the OT were given the gospel, the gospel included both the OT prophesy and the story of Who Jesus is and what He did.  I learned the OT first and taught the OT. But, if you want to show the focus of the OT, it was to reveal Jesus. But, a person can not know Jesus without the NT.

What is missing from that post is Jesus, so it is not all there. You wanted to show that we could come to God from the Tenakh alone. You can't come to God, except through Jesus. So, no, you can not come to God through the Tenakh alone because the Tenakh points to the future Messiah and without knowing the future Messiah, Jesus, you have not come to God.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

added: Before Jesus, I knew of God. I believed in God. But, I did not know God until I accepted Jesus. How did I learn about Jesus? But reading some of the gospels. It was through the gospels that I realized the Jesus was the prophesied Messiah and savior. I was indwelt by the Holy Spirit when I believed, and then I knew God. Before that moment, I longed to know God. I wished that I had stood at the base of Mt. Sinai and been one of those who saw the lightening and heard the thunder and God's voice. After knowing Jesus, I had to admit that if I was among the children of Israel at the base of Mt. Sinai, I would have run in fear with the rest of the children of Israel. 

[simplejeff]

You post as if you didn't read the New Testament OR the previous posts.

Several People were saved without any New Testament to read.--- all they had to read was MOSES and the PROPHETS and the PSALMS.  ((see the examples in the New Testament AND in the previous posts)).