SINNERSAVED Posted March 22, 2016 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 6 Topic Count: 150 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 2,195 Content Per Day: 0.68 Reputation: 2,409 Days Won: 14 Joined: 07/30/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted March 22, 2016 okay we talk about following Jesus in the new testament, and we talk about the crucifixion that he went to the cross and His blood was shed to save us and salvation is given to us and so we have the teachings of Jesus and the stories of the church , and the blood of the lamb of God, we have parables of the kingdom, and how we are to be in spirit , and grace is come to us by Jesus the son of God, we claim to be christains for those that follow the bible, so lets put the whole new testament to the side completely !!! , and see if we that call our selves believers, are able to know the God we serve , to know that there is salvation, and to know that if we did not have a NT, that we would be able to come to God by the tanakh the old test holy scriptures, just with this only , would our belief and faith be the same ? I am looking for serious scriptures that would make me be a believer today , from the old test,.? can it be done, ? and still be a strong and true believer, ? thank you and blessings and peace to all ...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eha Posted March 22, 2016 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 194 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 230 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/16/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/08/1973 Share Posted March 22, 2016 7 hours ago, SINNERSAVED said: that we would be able to come to God by the tanakh the old test holy scriptures, just with this only , would our belief and faith be the same ? didnt you read, that Jesus did open apostles mind, that hey could understood scriptures and see HOW scripture was fulfilled in Jesus life and death on cross? what scripture? WHY Jesus did open they mind to see? 7 hours ago, SINNERSAVED said: I am looking for serious scriptures that would make me be a believer today , from the old test,.? well... when Jesus did open apostles mind to see truth from OT (that is sealed)... dont you think apostles could write, what they see, in NT letters? but they didnt almost nothing, just few phrases... FEW. about new tongue you get from Holy Spirit baptism, for example.. why? what is seal? why it was used for? or are still (if are)? you ask something, that maybe something really got revealing, but are not just ALLOWED to tell. Paul didnt quote scripture much. why? yet all he did write stands on scripture. can you say, which verses from OT Paul got hes understanding? and why he didnt quote scripture much? just told us, how he understood what was revealed, but from what verses, how, he did kept in secret. he had good reason. in fact several. just trying to say - you ask something, that even if we know, we cant tell... for several good reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OakWood Posted March 22, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 7 Topic Count: 867 Topics Per Day: 0.24 Content Count: 7,331 Content Per Day: 1.99 Reputation: 2,860 Days Won: 31 Joined: 04/09/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/28/1964 Share Posted March 22, 2016 I believe that you could be led to the Holy Spirit by reading only these books, but at some point you will therefore be bringing Jesus into your life and believing in him. In other words, all scripture is good. By understanding who the God of the Jews is and believing in him, you are opening the door to a visit by Jesus. It's up to you whether you accept him or not. You have to remember that a number of people have found Jesus through dreams and visions and have never even read one word of the Bible, so reading the Tanakh can only be helpful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplejeff Posted March 22, 2016 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 12 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,689 Content Per Day: 2.37 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 20 Joined: 06/30/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted March 22, 2016 biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Psalm+19:10 They are more precious than gold, than much pure gold; they are sweeter than honey, than honey from the honeycomb. 2 hours ago, Eha said: didnt you read, that Jesus did open apostles mind, that hey could understood scriptures and see HOW scripture was fulfilled in Jesus life and death on cross? what scripture? WHY Jesus did open they mind to see? well... when Jesus did open apostles mind to see truth from OT (that is sealed)... dont you think apostles could write, what they see, in NT letters? but they didnt almost nothing, just few phrases... FEW. about new tongue you get from Holy Spirit baptism, for example.. why? what is seal? why it was used for? or are still (if are)? you ask something, that maybe something really got revealing, but are not just ALLOWED to tell. Paul didnt quote scripture much. why? yet all he did write stands on scripture. can you say, which verses from OT Paul got hes understanding? and why he didnt quote scripture much? just told us, how he understood what was revealed, but from what verses, how, he did kept in secret. he had good reason. in fact several. just trying to say - you ask something, that even if we know, we cant tell... for several good reasons. Psalm 105:4 Look to the LORD and his strength; seek his face always. biblehub.com/psalms/105-4.htm Search for the LORD and for his strength; continually seek him. English Standard ... Seek yethe Lord, and be strengthened: seek his face evermore. Darby Bible ... Isaiah 55:6 Seek the LORD while he may be found; call on him while ... biblehub.com/isaiah/55-6.htm Seek the LORD while you can find him. Call on him now while he is near. English Standard Version “Seek the LORD while he may be found; call upon him while ... 1 Chronicles 16:11 Look to the LORD and his strength; seek his face ... biblehub.com/1_chronicles/16-11.htm Search for the LORD and for his strength; continually seek him. English Standard VersionSeek the LORD and his strength; seek his presence continually! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qnts2 Posted March 22, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 20 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,875 Content Per Day: 0.70 Reputation: 1,336 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/13/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted March 22, 2016 The Tenakh does give many many scriptures which tell about a future Messiah. These verses are enough to know that there is a coming Messiah, and give enough information to have an idea of what the Messiah will do, and enough information to be able to identify the Messiah when He comes. But, as most prophesy goes, the scripture becomes clearer in hindsight. In various Rabbinical writings, the Rabbi's discussed the Messianic prophesies to try to determine what that will look like. I have read some of these discussions and see that some interpretations appear to be right on while others are wrong. One such discussion tries to determine how a the Messiah could die and others say the Messiah will come and triumphantly destroy all of Israel's enemies. How can the Messiah in one place die, but in another, be triumphant? Another thing we know from the NT is that the Messiah is born of a woman, and of the Holy Spirit, so the Messiah is God. In the Tenakh, it never outright says the Messiah will be God, but it leaves that as a possibility, which you won't know until the NT. The very first verse which hints at a Messiah is Genesis 3:15: Gen 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel. Another prophesy identifies the birth place and that the Messiah will come from the tribe of Judah. Just FYI, in the Tenakh (Jewish scriptures), the verse numbers are different in some places. Micah 5:2 in the Gentile bibles is Micah 5:1 in the Tenakh. Micah 5:2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting. JPS translation: Micah 5:1 But thou, Beth-lehem Ephrathah, which art little to be among the thousands of Judah, out of thee shall one come forth unto Me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth are from of old, from ancient days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eha Posted March 22, 2016 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 194 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 230 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/16/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/08/1973 Share Posted March 22, 2016 21 minutes ago, simplejeff said: Search for the LORD and for his strength; continually seek him. English Standard ... Seek yethe Lord, and be strengthened: seek his face evermore. Darby Bible ... Isaiah 55:6 Seek the LORD while he may be found; call on him while ... biblehub.com/isaiah/55-6.htm Seek the LORD while you can find him. Call on him now while he is near. English Standard Version “Seek the LORD while he may be found; call upon him while ... 1 Chronicles 16:11 Look to the LORD and his strength; seek his face ... biblehub.com/1_chronicles/16-11.htm Search for the LORD and for his strength; continually seek him. English Standard VersionSeek the LORD and his strength; seek his presence continually! yes...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qnts2 Posted March 22, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 20 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,875 Content Per Day: 0.70 Reputation: 1,336 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/13/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted March 22, 2016 Some more verses: JPS Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the L-rd Himself shall give you a sign: behold, the young woman shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel. KJV Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel. Just a couple of comments, The Hebrew word translated as virgin or young woman, is almah. In Judaism, almah is not viewed as necessarilly meaning virgin. However, an almah is a young woman of marrying age. No where in scripture is an almah ever a woman is who not a virgin. Judaism argues that the Hebrew word Betulah mean virgin. However, a betulah is a young female, often too young to marry. Immanuel in Hebrew is actually two words. Immanu which means 'with us', and El, which means God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ezra Posted March 22, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 134 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 8,142 Content Per Day: 2.34 Reputation: 6,612 Days Won: 20 Joined: 11/02/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted March 22, 2016 so lets put the whole new testament to the side completely !!! [/quote] Why? Since we have it for a reason, let's not put it aside. The "New Testament" (Covenant) -- by definition -- supersedes the Old Covenant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwikphilly Posted March 22, 2016 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 96 Topic Count: 307 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 18,143 Content Per Day: 4.61 Reputation: 27,836 Days Won: 327 Joined: 08/03/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted March 22, 2016 Blessings S Saved I just happened to see a beautiful sermon today almost exactly the same as your question,,,,,,,,,,I think the answer would be"yes",,,,,,WE see that Abraham was made RIGHTEOUS by His Faith in Jesus(the Promise of the Seed to come) & in Galations 3:7 we are told....that they which are of faith ,the SAME ARE the children of Abraham ,,,,,,why?> because He believed what He heard God say,,,,,,,What did God say? Quote As Amos 3:7 says, "Surely the Lord God does nothing unless He reveals His secret counsel to His servants the prophets. God spoke to His people through the prophets,surely by believing in Jesus(before or after He was born ,died & rose )is reconciliation to the Father ,,,,,,,, All well & good but as Ezra has noted,,,,,,,"Why ?"It is given us for a reason(New Testament)" Why would anyone that believes in the PROMISE not want to go further,since the prophecies about the Redeemer were fulfilled? Unless of course you are painting a picture of someone that only had access to the Old Testament(for whatever reason>?) With Love-in Christ,Kwik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qnts2 Posted March 22, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 20 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,875 Content Per Day: 0.70 Reputation: 1,336 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/13/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted March 22, 2016 21 minutes ago, kwikphilly said: Blessings S Saved I just happened to see a beautiful sermon today almost exactly the same as your question,,,,,,,,,,I think the answer would be"yes",,,,,,WE see that Abraham was made RIGHTEOUS by His Faith in Jesus(the Promise of the Seed to come) & in Galations 3:7 we are told....that they which are of faith ,the SAME ARE the children of Abraham ,,,,,,why?> because He believed what He heard God say,,,,,,,What did God say? God spoke to His people through the prophets,surely by believing in Jesus(before or after He was born ,died & rose )is reconciliation to the Father ,,,,,,,, All well & good but as Ezra has noted,,,,,,,"Why ?"It is given us for a reason(New Testament)" Why would anyone that believes in the PROMISE not want to go further,since the prophecies about the Redeemer were fulfilled? Unless of course you are painting a picture of someone that only had access to the Old Testament(for whatever reason>?) With Love-in Christ,Kwik While the OT gives sufficient prophesy to identify the Messiah, the NT shows that Christians are told to preach the gospel to all of creation. In the time of the Apostles, they preached the good news of Jesus to the Jewish people. Why preach if the OT had enough in it for eternal salvation? The OT pointed to the future Messiah but did not reveal Him. It is by Jesus Name that people are saved eternally. So, to be saved, one must read or hear of the story of Jesus, Who He is and What He did. The prophesies of the Messiah are in the OT, but the story of Jesus isn't. Either someone sharing the gospel as taught in the NT, reading the NT, or a direct revelation from God about Jesus is needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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