Ezra Posted March 24, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 134 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 8,142 Content Per Day: 2.35 Reputation: 6,612 Days Won: 20 Joined: 11/02/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted March 24, 2016 12 hours ago, SINNERSAVED said: for if you are trying to make a point what can and cannot be, please do not , insult others by your wisdom? When an individual *disagrees* with Scripture (as you have done) there is nothing more to be said. And since there was not one iota of *insult* in my post, you have a very serious problem, my friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ezra Posted March 24, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 134 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 8,142 Content Per Day: 2.35 Reputation: 6,612 Days Won: 20 Joined: 11/02/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted March 24, 2016 2 hours ago, Eha said: so Son was created... Because He IS WORD and HE IS through Who everything were made, YET HE IS NOT FATHER, even One with Him Sorry Eha, but the Son was NOT created. He is God the Word, who was eternally with the Father (and the Holy Spirit) and He Himself is the Creator (John 1:1-3). Only the cults believe that Jesus is a created being. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qnts2 Posted March 24, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 20 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,875 Content Per Day: 0.71 Reputation: 1,336 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/13/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted March 24, 2016 8 hours ago, gdemoss said: That is not true. In the OT he was known as the I AM THAT I AM or the self existent one. In the NT he is known as Jesus or the self existent one is salvation. The difference is in the NT we see him in the flesh 100% of every word and deed controlled by God. In the OT we see prophets who had the Spirit of Christ in them. They had the law to lead them unto Christ. He dwelt with them. Are you saying that ' John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. 40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life. ' is wrong? Are you saying that a person does not have to come to Jesus to have eternal life but that there is another way? There is a reason God commanded believers in Jesus to go out to all the world and preach the gospel. The law was given for two reasons. In the NT, it was to reveal sin and therefore to reveal the need for Jesus. Also, the Mosaic law gives a picture of Jesus. But, scripture is very clear. There is only one way to God and salvation and that is through Jesus. Without coming to Jesus, there is no eternal salvation, so to share the good news, the message has to include Jesus. The testimony of Who Jesus is, and what He did, is only in the NT. The OT points to the Messiah, and can be used to validate that Jesus is the Messiah prophesied in the OT, by the testimony of Jesus in the NT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Teditis Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 How did people in the OT come to Jesus? Or do you believe that none of them are saved? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qnts2 Posted March 24, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 20 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,875 Content Per Day: 0.71 Reputation: 1,336 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/13/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted March 24, 2016 19 minutes ago, Teditis said: How did people in the OT come to Jesus? Or do you believe that none of them are saved? In the OT, people who believed in the coming Messiah were counted due to their faith. The OT was before the revelation of Who the Messiah was and the full revelation of what He did. The gospels are the revelation that Jesus is the Messiah. He is no longer the coming Messiah, but now the Messiah Who has come and died for sin, and rose again. 1 Peter 3:18For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit; Without Jesus, none are alive in the Spirit. So what of the OT Saints who lived before Jesus came? They believed in the coming Messiah but did not know the coming Messiah. Right after Jesus died: Matthew 27:52 The tombs were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; The OT saints met and knew the Messiah, Jesus. Before Jesus death, they were in the 'bosom of Abraham', waiting for the Messiah. After Jesus death, they were raised and went to heaven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eha Posted March 24, 2016 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 194 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 230 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/16/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/08/1973 Share Posted March 24, 2016 (edited) 2 hours ago, Ezra said: Sorry Eha, but the Son was NOT created. He is God the Word, who was eternally with the Father (and the Holy Spirit) and He Himself is the Creator (John 1:1-3). Only the cults believe that Jesus is a created being. what ever... who have eyes to see. please read that scripture once more. and, no i wont add more. its enough. i just dont like argue with people, who dont agree with Bible or just deny truth as it is. many is sealed in OT but that is TOO clear to not see... about Who, that i quoted, is talking here... and yes - its says The Lord created me at the beginning of his way, its not WHAT, its about WHOI was beside him as a master of crafts. .. master is WHO, so - before all was made, WHO was created??? WHO IS WISDOM WHO IS WORD i think i did reveal more then i wanted. Edited March 24, 2016 by Eha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qnts2 Posted March 24, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 20 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,875 Content Per Day: 0.71 Reputation: 1,336 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/13/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted March 24, 2016 44 minutes ago, Eha said: what ever... who have eyes to see. please read that scripture once more. and, no i wont add more. its enough. i just dont like argue with people, who dont agree with Bible or just deny truth as it is. many is sealed in OT but that is TOO clear to not see... about Who, that i quoted, is talking here... and yes - its says The Lord created me at the beginning of his way, its not WHAT, its about WHOI was beside him as a master of crafts. .. master is WHO, so - before all was made, WHO was created??? WHO IS WISDOM WHO IS WORD i think i did reveal more then i wanted. The Arian error used the Proverbs 8:22 verse to claim that Jesus was not God but was the highest created being. So am I to assume that you agree with Arian beliefs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ezra Posted March 24, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 134 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 8,142 Content Per Day: 2.35 Reputation: 6,612 Days Won: 20 Joined: 11/02/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted March 24, 2016 3 hours ago, Eha said: its says The Lord created me at the beginning of his way, There is a big difference between "the LORD possessed me" (KJV) and "the LORD created me" (some modern version). It is anything but "created". Since the very next verse says that Wisdom is "from everlasting" that settles the issue. Once again, using a modern version often leads to false doctrine. Strong's Concordance qanah: to get, acquire Original Word: קָנָהPart of Speech: VerbTransliteration: qanahPhonetic Spelling: (kaw-naw')Short Definition: buy NAS Exhaustive Concordance Word Origina prim. rootDefinitionto get, acquire acquire (6), acquired (1), acquires (2), bought (20), buy (23), buyer (4), buying (2), buys (1), formed (1), gain acquisition (1), gained (1), get (3), gets (1), gotten (1), owner (1), possessed (1), possessor (2), purchased (3), purchaser (3), recover (1), redeemed (1), sold (1), surely buy (2). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retrobyter Posted March 24, 2016 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 9 Topic Count: 40 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 6,594 Content Per Day: 1.07 Reputation: 2,444 Days Won: 1 Joined: 06/28/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/28/1957 Share Posted March 24, 2016 On March 23, 2016 at 9:04 PM, Qnts2 said: The OT did not offer life. It was a pointer to Jesus who gives life. No one is saved by the OT alone. People are saved through Jesus alone. The scripture in the OT is used in evangelism to show that Jesus is the prophesied Messiah, but to know that Jesus is the prophesied Messiah requires both the OT and as the NT gospels are the witness of Who Jesus is who fulfilled OT Messianic prophesy. Shalom, Qnts2. I can understand what you are saying, but that would be true of the New Testament, as well. No one is saved by the NT alone either. G-D must justify an individual based on the Sacrifice of the Lamb of God, Yeshua`, His Son. However, you must also understand that we learn what we can know about G-D and His Son, Yeshua` the Messiah FROM both the NT AND the OT. And, you must understand that NO ONE is "saved" (justified by God) in any other way! Not by keeping the Law, not by doing good deeds, not by keeping the "Sacraments!" NO ONE EVER has been! Therefore, there is NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE OT AND THE NT! The only difference is that the OT looks forward to the Messiah's coming, while the NT looks back at the Messiah's coming. Therefore, to the one who was paying attention, the OT CAN provide life by pointing to the One who gives life, just as much as the NT does. The justification by G-D comes through Grace alone, by faith alone, by blood alone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Your closest friendnt Posted March 25, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,853 Content Per Day: 2.42 Reputation: 2,761 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/05/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted March 25, 2016 On 3/23/2016 at 10:50 PM, Qnts2 said: They read Tenakh, and had the preaching of the Apostles and the disciples who told about Jesus. The very first preaching of the gospel is in Acts 2 Acts 2:14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words: 15 For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day. 16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; 17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: 18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy: 19 And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke: 20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and notable day of the Lord come: 21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved. 22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know: 23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain: 24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it. So, they were told about Jesus, before the writing of the NT. Today, the witnesses of Jesus wrote the gospels to show Who Jesus is and what He did. Or believers can go out and share the gospel. Or, in some circumstances when there are no believers available to share the good news of Jesus, God will give a person a revelation of Jesus. In all situations, it is not just the Tenakh. It is the Tenakh plus information or revelation about Jesus. Some Gentiles learn about Jesus first, without ever having read the Tenakh. But, all important is learning about Jesus since it is only through Jesus that we can know God, and receive eternal salvation. You have explain it in an excellent way, and you describe the context. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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