The Sabbath and Sunday Worship.

[Wayne222]

4 hours ago, WailingWall said:

Do you think the covenant of Hebrews 8 has come to pass?

HEBREWS 8 [8] For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: [9] Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. [10] For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I WILL PUT MY LAWS INTO THEIR MIND, AND WRITE THEM IN THEIR HEARTS: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: [11] And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. [12] For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. [13] In that he saith, A NEW COVENANT, HE HATH MADE THE FIRST OLD. NOW THAT WHICH DECAYETH AND WAXETH OLD IS READY TO VANISH AWAY.

Verse 8- I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah. Not a gentile mentioned anywhere. Are you from either house? The "many" claim the covenant of the 10 commandments are not to be kept because they were givin to Israel. Why the double standards?

Verse 11- Does EVERYONE know the Lord? Not even close. There will come a time.

Verse 13- Hebrews 8 was written AFTER the crucified Christ and the scripture clearly says that the old covenant (10 commandments) is WAXING OLD and GETTING READY to vanish. Aint vanished yet! Yes there are some books that claim the ten are obsolete. In them same books youll find in Hebrews 4 the name of Jesus being change to Joshua for the same reason.

Verse 10- When God writes His commandments in our heart you can bet the ranch we will be keeping them. Yes, even His sabbath. When will God write His laws in our hearts?

DEUT. 30 [4] If any of thine be driven out unto the outmost parts of heaven, from thence will THE LORD THY GOD GATHER THEE, and from thence will he fetch thee: [5] And the Lord THY GOD WILL BRING THEE INTO THE LAND WHICH THY FATHERS POSSESSED, and thou shalt possess it; and he will do thee good, and multiply thee above thy fathers. [6] And the Lord THY GOD WILL CIRCUMCISE THINE HEART, and the heart of thy seed, to love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live. [7] And the Lord thy God will put all these curses upon thine enemies, and on them that hate thee, which persecuted thee. [8] And THOU SHALT RETURN AND OBEY THE VOICE OF THE LORD, AND DO ALL HIS COMMANDMENTS which I command thee this day.

After the  gathering {in the twinkling of an eye} to the kingdom rest. Verse 8- Yes.... that would be the 10 commandments. Does that include the sabbath

ISAIAH 66 [22] For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the Lord, so shall your seed and your name remain. [23] And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and FROM ONE SABBATH TO ANOTHER, SHALL ALL FLESH COME TO WORSHIP before me, saith the Lord.

Yup

To bad col 2 says don't let anyone judge you in sabbath and holydays. But christ is the reality.  The sabbath is the shadow.  Christ is the real deal. We have christ.

[Wayne222]

5 hours ago, WailingWall said:

I condemn no one concerning the sabbath. Does the Word?

EZEKIEL 20 [12] Moreover also I GAVE THEM MY SABBATHS, TO BE A SIGN between me and them, that they might know THAT I AM THE LORD THAT SANCTIFY THEM.

The sabbath is a sign between God and his people that the “Lord does sanctify them”.

ISAIAH 66 [15] For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.[16] For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many.[17] THEY THAT SANCTIFY THEMSELVES, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, EATING SWINE'S FLESH, and the abomination, and the mouse, SHALL BE CONSUMED together, saith the LORD.

No one can claim that the scripture is for ancient Israel. Its a "day of the Lord" scripture. It will be fulfilled when Jesus returns. Anyways, if THE SABBATH IS A SIGN THAT GOD SANCTIFYS YOU. Who are those that “sanctify themselves”? Pretty simple to figure out.

Just a little somethin extra to show how great the WORD is! There are only 2 places in the KJV where the words “moreover also” can be found

EZEK.20 [12] MOREOVER ALSO I gave them MY SABBATHS, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD that sanctify them

ACTS 2 [26] Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; MOREOVER ALSO MY FLESH SHALL REST in hope:

In ACTS 2 the WORD says “my flesh shall rest in hope”. Just as GODS 4th commandment tells us to do. Aint the Word of God great!

 

 

You are clearly putting your self under the law. And want to put a yoke on other believers.  That's against the bible. 

[WailingWall]

5 minutes ago, Wayne222 said:

You are clearly putting your self under the law. And want to put a yoke on other believers.  That's against the bible. 

Hey Wayne. Are you speaking of the yoke of bondage?

GALATIANS 4 [21] Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law? [22] For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman. [23] But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise. [24] Which things are an allegory: for these are the TWO COVENANTS; THE ONE FROM THE MOUNT SINAI, WHICH GENDERETH TO BONDAGE, WHICH IS AGAR. [25] For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. [26] But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.......... [30] Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.

Is the above scripture speaking of the 10 commandments as you claim or is it simply speaking of circumcision?   

EXODUS 34 [28] And he was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the COVENANT, the TEN COMMANDMENTS.

ACTS 7 [8] And he gave him the COVENANT OF CIRCUMCISION: and so Abraham begat Isaac, and circumcised him the eighth day; and Isaac begat Jacob; and Jacob begat the twelve patriarchs.

BOTH the 10 commandments and circumcision were givin as “covenants”

EXODUS 24 [12] And the Lord said unto Moses, COME UP TO ME INTO THE MOUNT, and be there: and I WILL GIVE THEE tables of stone, AND A LAW, AND COMMANDMENTS which I have written; that thou mayest teach them.

LEVITICUS 7 [37] THIS IS THE LAW OF THE BURNT OFFERING, of the meat offering, and of the sin offering, and of the trespass offering, and of the consecrations, and of the sacrifice of the peace offerings; [38] WHICH THE LORD COMMANDED MOSES IN MOUNT SINAI, in the day that he commanded the children of Israel to offer their oblations unto the Lord, in the wilderness of Sinai.

Both covenants, the 10 commandments and the law of Moses were given at Mt Sinai.

JOHN 7  [21] Jesus answered and said unto them, I have done one work, and ye all marvel.[22] MOSES THEREFORE GAVE UNTO YOU CIRCUMCISION; (not because it is of Moses, but of the fathers;) and ye on the sabbath day circumcise a man.[23] If a man on the sabbath day RECEIVE CIRCUMCISION, THAT THE LAW OF MOSES SHOULD NOT BE BROKEN; are ye angry at me, because I have made a man every whit whole on the sabbath day?

Circumcision is of the law of Moses and given at Sinai. So which of these, the 10 commandments or circumcision do the scriptures say bring us into “bondage” {Gal.4:24}?

And the winner is....

GALATIANS 5 [1] Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and BE NOT ENTANGLED AGAIN WITH THE YOKE OF BONDAGE. [2] Behold, I Paul say unto you, that IF YE BE CIRCUMCISED, CHRIST SHALL PROFIT YOU NOTHING.

And again...

GALATIANS 2 [3] But neither Titus, who was with me, being a Greek, was COMPELLED TO BE CIRCUMCISED: [4]And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might BRING US INTO BONDAGE:

 

[WailingWall]

21 minutes ago, Wayne222 said:

To bad col 2 says don't let anyone judge you in sabbath and holydays. But christ is the reality.  The sabbath is the shadow.  Christ is the real deal. We have christ.

Does Col.2{16} really mean what you say it means?

COL. 2 [16] Let no man therefore judge you in MEAT, or in DRINK, or in respect of an HOLYDAY, or of the NEW MOON, or of the SABBATH DAYS:

Let scripture interpret scripture.

EZEKIEL 45 [17] And it shall be the prince's part to give burnt offerings, and MEAT offerings, and DRINK offerings, in the FEASTS, and in the NEW MOONS, and in the SABBATHS, in all solemnities of the house of Israel: he shall prepare the sin offering, and the meat offering, and the burnt offering, and the peace offerings, to make reconciliation for the house of Israel.

Heres a scripture, same exact order as Col.2{16}, meat, drink, holy days (feast days), new moons, sabbaths. Theres a good place to start. Let scripture interpret scripture

[Spock]

1 hour ago, Wayne222 said:

You are clearly putting your self under the law. And want to put a yoke on other believers.  That's against the bible. 

Brother Wayne,

No he isn't.  Let him be....he is following his Bible, his conscience, and his heart.  Who are any of us to tell him not to?  I know you believe you are right in your determination of all of this, but OBVIOUSLY this brother disagrees, and you can't impose your beliefs onto this brother.  

You could see all the "work" he put into presenting his analysis with great scripture references for all to ponder.  At the very least, you two can agree to disagree but I do not believe any of us should tell him that  "he wants to put a yoke on other believers" because that is unfair, prejudicial, and  because he is merely stating and defending his position. He has made it clear he JUDGES NO ONE (insists they follow him) and that each have to make their own decisions. 

Sometimes a good discussion can be a draw for the parties involved and a blessing for the younger or uninformed to weigh and to learn. I know you feel just as strong about this Wayne, but keep,it between your beliefs and his beliefs and leave out what other people may believe.

cheers,

spock

Edited April 12, 2017 by Spock

[Spock]

3 hours ago, Remnantrob said:

I will have to disagree with this statement based on some quotes I was able to locate.

 

4TH CENTURY

"Ambrose, the celebrated bishop of Milan (c 340-397), said that when he was in Milan he observed Saturday, but when in Rome observed Sunday. This gave rise to the proverb, 'When you are in Rome, do as Rome does.'" Heylyn, The History of the Sabbath (1612)

"The ancient Christians were very careful in the observance of Saturday, or the seventh day...It is plain that all the Oriental churches, and the greatest part of the world, observed the Sabbath as a festival...Athanasius likewise tells us that they held religious assembles on the Sabbath, not because they were infected with Judaism, but to worship Jesus, the Lord of the Sabbath, Epiphanius says the same." Antiquities of the Christian Church, vol. Book XX, chap. 3, sec.1, 66. 1137,1138

 

Abyssinia - Remnants of Philip's Evangelism

"In the last half of that century St. Ambrose of Milan stated officially that the Abyssinian bishop, Museus, had 'traveled almost everywhere in the country of the Seres' (China). For more than seventeen centuries the Abyssinian Church continued to sanctify Saturday as the holy day of the fourth commandment." Ambrose, DeMoribus, Brachmanorium Opera Ominia, 1132, found in Migne, Patrologia Latima, Vol.17, pp.1131, 1132

 

Arabia, Persia, India, China

"Mingana proves that in 370 AD Abyssinian Christianity (a Sabbath keeping church) was so popular that its famous director, Musacus, travelled extensively in the East promoting the church in Arabia, Persia, India and China." Truth Triumphant, p.308 (Footnote 27)

 

Persia-A.D.335-375

"They despise our sun-god. Did not Zorcaster, the sainted founder of our divine beliefs, institute Sunday one thousand years ago in honour of the sun and supplant the Sabbath of the Old Testament. Yet these Christians have divine services on Saturday." O'Leary, The Syriac Church and Fathers, pp.83, 84

5 CENTURY

In Jerome's day (420 AD) the devoutest Christians did ordinary work on Sunday. Treatise of the Sabbath Day, by Dr. White, Lord Bishop of Ely, p. 219.

 

Sidonius (Speaking Of King Theodoric Of The Goths, AD 454-526)

"It is a fact that it was formerly the custom in the East to keep the Sabbath in the same manner as the Lord's day and to hold sacred assemblies: while on the other hand, the people of the West, contending for the Lord's day have neglected the celebration of the Sabbath." Apollinaries Sidonli Epistolae, lib.1, 2; Migne, 57.

6TH CENTURY

 

Scottish Church

"In this latter instance they seemed to have followed a custom of which we find traces in the early monastic church of Ireland by which they held Saturday to be the Sabbath on which they rested from all their labours." W.T. Skene, Adamnan Llife of St. Columbs 1874, p.96.

Scotland - Columba

"Having continued his labours in Scotland thirty-four years, he clearly and openly foretold his death, and on Saturday, the month of June, said to his disciple Diermit: "This day is called the Sabbath, that is the rest day, and such will it truly be to me; for it will put an end to my labours.'" Butler's Lives of the Saints, Vol.1, A.D. 597, art. "St. Columba" p. 762

7TH CENTURY

Scotland and Ireland

"The Celts used a Latin Bible unlike the Vulgate (R.C.) and kept Saturday as a day of rest, with special religious services on Sunday." Flick, The Rise of Mediaeval Church, p. 237

Rome (Pope Gregory I, A.D.590 TO 604)

"Gregory, bishop by the grace of God to his well-beloved sons, the Roman citizens: It has come to me that certain men of perverse spirit have disseminated among you things depraved and opposed to the holy faith, so that they forbid anything to be done on the day of the Sabbath. What shall I call them except preachers of anti-Christ?" Epistles, b.13:1

~~~

Rome (Pope Gregory I)

Declared that when anti-Christ should come he would keep Saturday as the Sabbath. "Epistles of Gregory I, "b 13, epist.1. found in Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers.

"Moreover, this same Pope Gregory had issued an official pronouncement against a section of the city of Rome itself because the Christian believers there rested and worshipped on the Sabbath." Same reference.

 

http://www.blowthetrumpet.org/sabbathconfessions.htm

 The above link gives quotes from each century where christians kept the sabbath before the 16th century.

6th Century

Thanks for uncovering this research brother. Blessings and appreciation going out your way. 

An appreciative spock

[Wayne222]

2 hours ago, WailingWall said:

Hey Wayne. Are you speaking of the yoke of bondage?

GALATIANS 4 [21] Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law? [22] For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman. [23] But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise. [24] Which things are an allegory: for these are the TWO COVENANTS; THE ONE FROM THE MOUNT SINAI, WHICH GENDERETH TO BONDAGE, WHICH IS AGAR. [25] For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. [26] But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.......... [30] Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.

Is the above scripture speaking of the 10 commandments as you claim or is it simply speaking of circumcision?   

EXODUS 34 [28] And he was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the COVENANT, the TEN COMMANDMENTS.

ACTS 7 [8] And he gave him the COVENANT OF CIRCUMCISION: and so Abraham begat Isaac, and circumcised him the eighth day; and Isaac begat Jacob; and Jacob begat the twelve patriarchs.

BOTH the 10 commandments and circumcision were givin as “covenants”

EXODUS 24 [12] And the Lord said unto Moses, COME UP TO ME INTO THE MOUNT, and be there: and I WILL GIVE THEE tables of stone, AND A LAW, AND COMMANDMENTS which I have written; that thou mayest teach them.

LEVITICUS 7 [37] THIS IS THE LAW OF THE BURNT OFFERING, of the meat offering, and of the sin offering, and of the trespass offering, and of the consecrations, and of the sacrifice of the peace offerings; [38] WHICH THE LORD COMMANDED MOSES IN MOUNT SINAI, in the day that he commanded the children of Israel to offer their oblations unto the Lord, in the wilderness of Sinai.

Both covenants, the 10 commandments and the law of Moses were given at Mt Sinai.

JOHN 7  [21] Jesus answered and said unto them, I have done one work, and ye all marvel.[22] MOSES THEREFORE GAVE UNTO YOU CIRCUMCISION; (not because it is of Moses, but of the fathers;) and ye on the sabbath day circumcise a man.[23] If a man on the sabbath day RECEIVE CIRCUMCISION, THAT THE LAW OF MOSES SHOULD NOT BE BROKEN; are ye angry at me, because I have made a man every whit whole on the sabbath day?

Circumcision is of the law of Moses and given at Sinai. So which of these, the 10 commandments or circumcision do the scriptures say bring us into “bondage” {Gal.4:24}?

And the winner is....

GALATIANS 5 [1] Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and BE NOT ENTANGLED AGAIN WITH THE YOKE OF BONDAGE. [2] Behold, I Paul say unto you, that IF YE BE CIRCUMCISED, CHRIST SHALL PROFIT YOU NOTHING.

And again...

GALATIANS 2 [3] But neither Titus, who was with me, being a Greek, was COMPELLED TO BE CIRCUMCISED: [4]And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might BRING US INTO BONDAGE:

 

It's the same thing. To keep the sabbath as mandatory is being under a yoke of bodage. Read chapter 4 verse 9 but now that you have come to know God or rather to be know by God how turn ye back again to the weak and beggarly rudiments where unto ye desire to be in bondage over again. Ye observe days and months and seasons and years. You may reject circumcision but you still place yourself under law which is bondage. Your not free unto christ being justified  by faith. But are seeking to be justified by law. All who are mandatory under law need to keep all of the law perfect. Only faith in christ are we justified. 

[Wayne222]

1 hour ago, Spock said:

Brother Wayne,

No he isn't.  Let him be....he is following his Bible, his conscience, and his heart.  Who are any of us to tell him not to?  I know you believe you are right in your determination of all of this, but OBVIOUSLY this brother disagrees, and you can't impose your beliefs onto this brother.  

You could see all the "work" he put into presenting his analysis with great scripture references for all to ponder.  At the very least, you two can agree to disagree but I do not believe any of us should tell him that  "he wants to put a yoke on other believers" because that is unfair, prejudicial, and  because he is merely stating and defending his position. He has made it clear he JUDGES NO ONE (insists they follow him) and that each have to make their own decisions. 

Sometimes a good discussion can be a draw for the parties involved and a blessing for the younger or uninformed to weigh and to learn. I know you feel just as strong about this Wayne, but keep,it between your beliefs and his beliefs and leave out what other people may believe.

cheers,

spock

Spock I am being fair. If you make sabbath keeping mandatory you are putting others in bondage. Read Gal 4 verse 9. Plus all the book shows we should not be under law. We walk by the spirit. We are crucified with christ and we no longer live but he lives in us. We are dead to sin. And alive to righteousness.  We keep the commandments of christ given to the Apostles in the new testament. Not the law of Moses or the ten commandments the old covenant.  The new covenant of the blood of Jesus by faith.

[WailingWall]

13 hours ago, Wayne222 said:

It's the same thing. To keep the sabbath as mandatory is being under a yoke of bodage. Read chapter 4 verse 9 but now that you have come to know God or rather to be know by God how turn ye back again to the weak and beggarly rudiments where unto ye desire to be in bondage over again. Ye observe days and months and seasons and years.

These 2 scriptures will give you an idea as to whats being talked about in Gal.4{9}

ACTS 8 [9] But there was a certain man, called SIMON, which beforetime in the same city USED SORCERY, AND BEWITCHED THE PEOPLE of Samaria, giving out that himself was some great one: [10] To whom they all gave heed, from the least to the greatest, saying, This man is the great power of God. [11] And to him they had regard, because that of long time he had BEWITCHED THEM WITH SORCERIES.

GALATIANS 3 [1] O foolish Galatians, WHO HATH BEWITCHED YOU, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?

[WailingWall]

13 hours ago, Wayne222 said:

It's the same thing. To keep the sabbath as mandatory is being under a yoke of bodage. Read chapter 4 verse 9 but now that you have come to know God or rather to be know by God how turn ye back again to the weak and beggarly rudiments where unto ye desire to be in bondage over again. Ye observe days and months and seasons and years.

GAL.4 [8] Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods.[9] But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage? [10] YE OBSERVE DAYS, AND MONTHS, AND TIMES, AND YEARS.[11] I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.

Galatians 4 says nothing about sabbaths or feast days. Its speaking of those who observe times.

DEUT.18 [9] When thou art come into the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not learn to do after the abominations of those nations.[10] There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, OR AN OBSERVER OF TIMES, or an enchanter, or a witch,[11] Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.

The same thing goes on to this very day. Its speaking of the occult. Those who observe certain days by use of horoscopes?

2 CHR.33 [3] For he built again the high places which Hezekiah his father had broken down, and he reared up altars for Baalim, and made groves, and worshipped all the host of heaven, and served them.[4] Also he built altars in the house of the LORD, whereof the LORD had said, In Jerusalem shall my name be for ever.[5] And he built altars for all the host of heaven in the two courts of the house of the LORD.[6] And he caused his children to pass through the fire in the valley of the son of Hinnom: ALSO HE OBSERVED TIMES, and used enchantments, and used witchcraft, and dealt with a familiar spirit, and with wizards: he wrought much evil in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger

Enchantments, witchcraft, familiar spirits, and wizards. Its speaking of the occult. Not following sabbath days.

LEV.19 [26] Ye shall not eat any thing with the blood: neither shall ye use enchantment, NOR OBSERVE TIMES.[27] Ye shall not round the corners of your heads, neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard.[28] Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you: I am the LORD.[29] Do not prostitute thy daughter, to cause her to be a whore; lest the land fall to whoredom, and the land become full of wickedness.[30] YE SHALL KEEP MY SABBATHS, and reverence my sanctuary: I am the LORD.

This scripture says it all. You shall not observe times BUT you will keep my sabbaths.