Understanding the Final One Seven

[Montana Marv]

15 minutes ago, WilliamL said:

You are falsely conjoining two entirely different prophecies. Matt. 24:15's "abomination of desolation" has nothing at all to do with Daniel 9:27, in which that phrase does not exist in the Hebrew text.

Jesus takes that exact phrase from the End Time prophecy of Daniel 12:11, not the first century AD fulfillment of Dan. 9:27

William

The A/D of Dan 12:11 and 9:27 are the same event.  12:7 - states that there will be 42 months until the power of the holy people has finally been broken.  The scales will be removed from their eyes.  And this is the period of time where Michael, the great prince who protect Daniels people will arise (Dan 12:1)

Again those of Israel never could flee before or once Titus entered the Temple, it was already in ruins, the city was under siege remember,  and many had already died of starvation.  Also, no one could be in a field to flee from, for the Roman soldiers were already there.  So Matt 24:17 is NOT describing the events of 70 AD.

Sorry, but Matt 24:17 is projected for a future time; a time of peace, then a time to flee.  None of which matches anything in or around the events of 70 AD.

In Christ

Montana Marv

 

[Last Daze]

19 minutes ago, Montana Marv said:

Last Daze

If the covenant was in play for the entire 7 years, why then did Israel need to flee to the mountains.  Something must have be broken, causing them to flee.  Like not being allowed the their Temple anymore, and it being disgraced.

Kind of like saying wedding vows  "until death do us part";  many have broken this, and some more than once.

In Christ

Montana Marv

The prophecy says "confirmed" or "strengthened" for seven years.  It does not say "make a covenant for seven years, confirm it for 3.5 years then break it" so your wedding vow analogy is bogus.  The covenant is not made for seven years.  The covenant is confirmed for seven years.  Therefore, it can not be broken.  Absolutely nothing says the covenant is broken.  It says it is confirmed.

 

[Montana Marv]

20 minutes ago, Last Daze said:

The prophecy says "confirmed" or "strengthened" for seven years.  It does not say "make a covenant for seven years, confirm it for 3.5 years then break it" so your wedding vow analogy is bogus.  The covenant is not made for seven years.  The covenant is confirmed for seven years.  Therefore, it can not be broken.  Absolutely nothing says the covenant is broken.  It says it is confirmed.

 

Last Daze

If one confirms or strengthens a preexisting covenant which some other one (God) previously made with Israel, they are reissuing it, making it anew again.  Most if not all the Levitical portions of the Mosaic Law (covenant) ended at the Cross, the veil was rent in two.  If this is the case, a future someone may again reissue the Levitical codes for sacrifice and offerings in a new Temple.  And this for Seven Years.

In Christ

Montana Marv

 

[Last Daze]

26 minutes ago, Montana Marv said:

Last Daze

If one confirms or strengthens a preexisting covenant which some other one (God) previously made with Israel, they are reissuing it, making it anew again.  Most if not all the Levitical portions of the Mosaic Law (covenant) ended at the Cross, the veil was rent in two.  If this is the case, a future someone may again reissue the Levitical codes for sacrifice and offerings in a new Temple.  And this for Seven Years.

In Christ

Montana Marv

 

The prophecy quite clearly states that the covenant is confirmed for seven years.  It will be confirmed for a full seven years.  Start with that because that's what is plainly stated.

The notion of a seven year treaty or covenant which is broken in the middle has zero support from Daniel 9.

[Montana Marv]

5 minutes ago, Last Daze said:

The prophecy quite clearly states that the covenant is confirmed for seven years.  It will be confirmed for a full seven years.  Start with that because that's what is plainly stated.

The notion of a seven year treaty or covenant which is broken in the middle has zero support from Daniel 9.

So no one ever breaks a covenant with God as with Wedding Vows.

Treaty's or covenants with other nations are broken all the time.  An ungodly person may confirm a 7 year covenant with many and then break it any time he wants.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Last Daze]

10 minutes ago, Montana Marv said:

So no one ever breaks a covenant with God as with Wedding Vows.

Treaty's or covenants with other nations are broken all the time.  An ungodly person may confirm a 7 year covenant with many and then break it any time he wants.

In Christ

Montana Marv

I thought we were talking about Daniel 9, not whether covenants can be broken or not.  Of course they can be broken.  So?  There's no breaking of a covenant in Daniel 9.

Daniel 9 says nothing about confirming a seven year covenant.  It says a covenant will be confirmed for seven years.  This may be why you're confused.  Stop and reflect on the difference between the two.  What does Daniel say?

• And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week:  Daniel 9:27a

Does it say "confirm a seven year covenant".  No.  It says confirm a covenant for seven years (one week).  You really need to get that much settled before you try to move on.  Because error begets error.

[Paradigm]

31 minutes ago, Montana Marv said:

So no one ever breaks a covenant with God as with Wedding Vows.

Treaty's or covenants with other nations are broken all the time.  An ungodly person may confirm a 7 year covenant with many and then break it any time he wants.

In Christ

Montana Marv

Here are but a few:

Genesis 17:14

And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.

Isaiah 24:5

The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant.

Jeremiah 11:10

They are turned back to the iniquities of their forefathers, which refused to hear my words; and they went after other gods to serve them: the house of Israel and the house of Judah have broken my covenantwhich I made with their fathers.

Ezekiel 44:7

In that ye have brought into my sanctuary strangers, uncircumcised in heart, and uncircumcised in flesh, to be in my sanctuary, to pollute it, even my house, when ye offer my bread, the fat and the blood, and they havebroken my covenant because of all your abominations.

Deuteronomy 29:25

Then men shall say, Because they have forsaken the covenant of the Lord God of their fathers, which he made with them when he brought them forth out of the land of Egypt:

1 Kings 19:10

And he said, I have been very jealous for the Lord God of hosts: for the children of Israel have forsaken thy covenant, thrown down thine altars, and slain thy prophets with the sword; and I, even I only, am left; and they seek my life, to take it away.

Leviticus 26:15 And if ye shall despise my statutes, or if your soul abhor my judgments, so that ye will not do all my commandments, but that ye break my covenant:

Deuteronomy 31:16

And the Lord said unto Moses, Behold, thou shalt sleep with thy fathers; and this people will rise up, and go a whoring after the gods of the strangers of the land, whither they go to be among them, and will forsake me, and break my covenant which I have made with them.

[Montana Marv]

1 hour ago, Last Daze said:

I thought we were talking about Daniel 9, not whether covenants can be broken or not.  Of course they can be broken.  So?  There's no breaking of a covenant in Daniel 9.

Daniel 9 says nothing about confirming a seven year covenant.  It says a covenant will be confirmed for seven years.  This may be why you're confused.  Stop and reflect on the difference between the two.  What does Daniel say?

• And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week:  Daniel 9:27a

Does it say "confirm a seven year covenant".  No.  It says confirm a covenant for seven years (one week).  You really need to get that much settled before you try to move on.  Because error begets error.

Really there is no difference.  A person confirming, reestablishing or renewing  a covenant for a seven year period  is what - a seven year covenant.  This seven year period is between two or more parties.

As Christ has said; I come in my own Name and you do not believe (receive me not); When someone else comes in their own name, you will believe them (receive them).  And this is what happens in Dan 9:27.  Israel will accept one who comes in their (this persons) name.  And they will accept him as their Messiah.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Paradigm]

I thought I would repost this from one of the other current threads since it is relevant to this discussion. 

Daniel 9:24-27

²⁴ Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

²⁵ Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

²⁶ And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

²⁷ And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Who accomplishes the goals in the 70 weeks that are determined upon the people of Daniel and Jerusalem?

• To finish the transgression
• Make an end of sins
• Make reconciliation for iniquity
• Bring in everlasting righteousness
• Seal up the vision
• And the prophecy
• Anoint the most holy

 

Who confirms the covenant?

 

Galatians 3:15 Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man's covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto.

 

Galatians 3:17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

 

Hebrews 2:3 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;

 

Psalm 105:10 And confirmed the same unto Jacob for a law, and to Israel for an everlasting covenant:

 

Mark 16:20 And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.

 

Romans 15:8 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:

 

1 Corinthians 1:6 Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you:

 

1 Corinthians 1:8 Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

 

So, are there scriptures showing that the seven goals of Daniel 7:24 will be accomplished by the Messiah?

Are there scriptures showing that through the Messiah that the Covenant of God will be confirmed?

Is there any scripture that states that a so-called antichrist will confirm some peace treaty?

For it is written:

Matthew 18:16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.

Can the antichrist peace treaty doctrine be established by two or three witnesses? 

[Ezra]

4 hours ago, WilliamL said:

and to anoint the most Holy. = to establish the Millennial Kingdom

The Millennial Kingdom is to be "anointed"? No, Jesus was anointed. Emphasis on was.

Jesus needs no further anointing, but this anointing is future.  The establishment of the Millennial Kingdom will include a new and holy Millennial Temple, so this anointing could refer either to the Temple itself or to the priests who must be anointed into order to minister.