Does the spirit of God live within Jews?

[spiderman1917]

12 minutes ago, Willa said:

You don't hear of these things from true believers after Pentecost when He came to stay in us.  Now we are the temple of the Holy Spirit.

Nice

[spiderman1917]

4 hours ago, spiderman1917 said:

Okay, the Question was based off of the fact that Yeshua is Elohim, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.  If a Rabbi is praising the God of Abraham and spending all night in the synagogue praying to him and fasting as some do, aren't they still praying to the God of Abraham.

Obviously, their understanding of who that God is is incomplete.  But if their understanding isn't complete about the God of Abraham, is that still who they pray to and praise?

Jesus is that God.  If I say "Blessed and praised be the God of Israel", I'm blessing and praising Jesus.

Could someone answer that?

[Paradigm]

4 hours ago, spiderman1917 said:

Because, as I said before, people often provide Scripture verses to promote two totally different views.  It happens all the time.  That is why Luther and Calvin studied the same Bible but had totally different beliefs.  You will find many pastors who have studied Scripture all their lives and have Doctorates in the study of Sacred Scripture who have completely opposite beliefs of what various passages mean or how they apply.

For instance:

JO1 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. "

Some people take a verse to literally mean what we read in English, and it obviously doesn't mean that.

Or this for example:

JOH 10:30 I and my Father are one.

JOH 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

Luke 18:19 ►
"Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good--except God alone.

Reading the word of God alone does not give a person correct understanding of what the word of God is saying.  Also, can you show me the Scripture that says every source of Theological Truth is contained in Scripture?

2 Timothy 3:16-17

⁶ All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, ¹⁷ so that the servant of God^[a] may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

At that time there was no New Testament.  Yes, we know that absolutely no one can be thoroughly equipped for every good work without Scripture.  Scripture is absolutely necessary and is the word of God.  However, at the time that 2 Timothy 3:16-17 was written, there was no New Testament.  He very well at that time likely referring to the Old Testament.

Also, if Scripture equipped us for every good work, then Scripture would have told Christians which writings belonged in the New Testament Canon or told people to compile Scripture into a single volume book.  No where was that commanded.  Because of this, Christians debated for hundreds of years on what the correct canon was and when the first Bible was put together, people still debated on whether the correct decision was made.

So, I do read the Bible and it is good to ask questions on issues that are difficult to understand.

 

 

Very insightful Spiderman. You are obviously practicing objectivity. Most simply see through whatever lens that they have inherited. It takes time and practice to try to look at all of the evidence pro and con and see more of the big picture. 

[Paradigm]

5 hours ago, spiderman1917 said:

Could someone answer that?

That is a pretty involved question that brings up many other questions and issues. It gets into the nature of Messiah and Elohim. I think that Esther touched upon some of this issue. 

Messiah is the Word. 2,000 years ago the Word became flesh. However the Word was in the beginning. This same Word has appeared throughout history in various forms and manifestations and names. In the passage from Rev 19 that Esther mentioned, he had a name that no one knows and his name is called the Word of Elohim.

Jews traditionally have embraced aspects of the Word (Devar, Memra, Logos) and Christians have embraced another aspect. All have pierced the Aleph-Tav Word in different ways. 

It is interesting throughout scripture and particularly in Revelation that the true believers have two major components. They keep the Commandments of Elohim and have the Testimony of Y'shua. 

For the most part there is one group who believes in keeping the commandments and another group that claims a testimony of a Messiah/Christ. The true believers have both components. 

Y'shua was asked a question about taxes. He asked them whose image was on the coin. When they responded by saying Caesar, he said give to Caesar what belongs to him and Elohim what is His.

Y'shua was speaking of two different currencies. One form of currency bore Caesar's image. The other currency was speaking to them, for he was the express image of Elohim and would soon be the payment to Elohim for mankind.

Let us imagine that we have a piece of holographic film with a face on it. What happens if we cut the film or plate in half? Or perhaps cut into a hundred pieces? Most would assume that we would have a destroyed image and fragments of different parts of the face image. However, no matter how many times we divide it, we still have a complete image. Every small piece contains all of the information of the whole. 

Messiah/Word is the express image of Elohim and we are suppose to be transformed into his image. At this time we do not see the image of Messiah in his fullness or totality. For it is written, in that day we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is. 

There is a connection between seeing him as he is and becoming more like him. Again, the Word was in the beginning and appeared to many in the so-called OT. I have listed a number of scriptures from both the old and nt that shows the Holy Spirit being in people before the Word became flesh. 

As I said, humans tend to see the Bible and history on a linear time line. The blood of the Messiah is not confined to merely traveling forward since year zero. It would be just as easy to go forward or backward into time. 

Edited April 30, 2016 by Paradigm

[Ezra]

5 hours ago, spiderman1917 said:

Jesus is that God.  If I say "Blessed and praised be the God of Israel", I'm blessing and praising Jesus.

Not if you are an Orthodox Jew. In fact if you mention Jesus to an Orthodox Jew you will not get a warm welcome.

[Sister]

9 hours ago, spiderman1917 said:

Okay, the Question was based off of the fact that Yeshua is Elohim, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.  If a Rabbi is praising the God of Abraham and spending all night in the synagogue praying to him and fasting as some do, aren't they still praying to the God of Abraham.

Obviously, their understanding of who that God is is incomplete.  But if their understanding isn't complete about the God of Abraham, is that still who they pray to and praise.  Jesus is that God.  If I say "Blessed and praised be the God of Israel", I'm blessing and praising Jesus.

spiderman

If they are praying to God, yet rejecting Christ, then they are not truly serving the Word of God are they? 

Christ was sent to give the light, and this light came into the world when he dwelt with man, not before.  The old traditions are gone, and they have to come to God the new way now which is acknowledging his Son. 

 Matthew 17:5   While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.

We cannot have one without the other, because God and his Son go together like a glove.  This is a new commandment which they also have to accept.  If they truly love God they would hear his Word.  They would use the OT prophesies concerning Christ and put it all together that he already came.  If they deny this that their Messiah already came into the world, then they reject truth.  If they reject this truth, and speak the opposite, then they speak a lie.  They then don't get to find out in the NT that the voice of God speaking to them in the past, is also Christ, ...God's "own Word" made flesh, the same one.  We must know who we worship.

We cannot serve God with all our hearts and reject truth.  That same Word they think they worship, they reject.  The truth cannot be contaminated, so no they are not serving God's Word which is Christ.

But they are purposely "blinded" for a reason and this is God's plan to open the door to the gentiles, which is why there will be "mercy" for their unbelief during the millennium.  However saying this, it is not a licence to stay in ignorance, for only those of "the election of grace" will be chosen to be brought back during the millennium as the remnants of Israel.  Not all of them will be chosen, but that house of Israel will be sifted through also to take part in that amazing thing God will do for them. Many will miss out and will not be elected.

It is Christ's desire that we obtain the first resurrection to be reconciled to God while the door is still open, to have our robes washed clean at Christ's appearance.  Anyone found to have dirty robes on obviously;

(a) lived at a time before Christ came,

(b) rejected him after he was sent and made known to the whole world.

 

[gdemoss]

11 hours ago, Ezra said:

Pentecost was also a declaration to all Jews that God had made Jesus both Lord and Christ, and that that would be the basis of salvation henceforth.

Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. (Acts 2:37)

 

And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people. (Acts 3:23)

 

Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. (Acts 4:12)

 

The Lamb of God (also the ultimate Passover Lamb) had been slain, the veil in the Temple had been torn, and Jesus of Nazareth was now seated at the right hand of the Father, with the Father's throne as the ultimate Mercy Seat.  There would be no going back to Moses.

Amen!  The human 'race' was over.  A winner declared.  The one whom Moses foreshadowed has come!

[Sister]

Quote

Okay, the Question was based off of the fact that Yeshua is Elohim, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.  If a Rabbi is praising the God of Abraham and spending all night in the synagogue praying to him and fasting as some do, aren't they still praying to the God of Abraham.

spiderman

You didn't answer me, maybe what I wrote was too long? 

In short, yes they are praying to the true God, but he is not answering them because of their disbelief.  They are rejecting the rest of what God says to do, and that is to worship him through his Son.  The Son has to be acknowledged for he has been given the power to forgive sins and reconcile all to God, for all of us have sin.

 

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Obviously, their understanding of who that God is is incomplete. 

Yes, they don't know exactly much about the one they worship.  It's very incomplete.

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But if their understanding isn't complete about the God of Abraham, is that still who they pray to and praise.  Jesus is that God.  If I say "Blessed and praised be the God of Israel", I'm blessing and praising Jesus.

They are praising God, but not his Word.  We cannot have one without the other.  Accept parts, and reject the rest.

If YOU say blessed and praised be the God of Israel and you know him, that he sent his Son into the world and you accept and acknowledge that, then it is ok.  God knows your heart what is in there.

but THEY don't accept Jesus, so praising God, whilst rejecting his Son is not the same as praising Jesus in their heart.  They straight out do not acknowledge him as commanded to do so.

[spiderman1917]

3 hours ago, Sister said:

spiderman

You didn't answer me, maybe what I wrote was too long? 

In short, yes they are praying to the true God, but he is not answering them because of their disbelief.  They are rejecting the rest of what God says to do, and that is to worship him through his Son.  The Son has to be acknowledged for he has been given the power to forgive sins and reconcile all to God, for all of us have sin.

 

Yes, they don't know exactly much about the one they worship.  It's very incomplete.

They are praising God, but not his Word.  We cannot have one without the other.  Accept parts, and reject the rest.

If YOU say blessed and praised be the God of Israel and you know him, that he sent his Son into the world and you accept and acknowledge that, then it is ok.  God knows your heart what is in there.

but THEY don't accept Jesus, so praising God, whilst rejecting his Son is not the same as praising Jesus in their heart.  They straight out do not acknowledge him as commanded to do so.

just trying to assume the best about the Jews I know because they are very likable people and have the appearance of loving God.

 

If they don't know that they are rejecting their Messiah, or don't know what they are doing is wrong, my question now is their degree of culpability and guilt before God.

I could not find much fault in a son/daughter doing something because they don't know any better.

Someone willfully choosing evil is a different story. Jesus said if he had not come to the Pharisees speaking to them personally or working all of those signs and wonders before them, they would not have sin

[Sister]

11 hours ago, spiderman1917 said:

just trying to assume the best about the Jews I know because they are very likable people and have the appearance of loving God.

 

If they don't know that they are rejecting their Messiah, or don't know what they are doing is wrong, my question now is their degree of culpability and guilt before God.

I could not find much fault in a son/daughter doing something because they don't know any better.

Someone willfully choosing evil is a different story. Jesus said if he had not come to the Pharisees speaking to them personally or working all of those signs and wonders before them, they would not have sin

 

Spiderman

If God has blinded many of them for the purpose of bringing them back during the millennium to give glory to his name, then there's nothing anyone can do about it.  It's all in the plan.

There are Jews that are not practising wickedness, and strive for peace and justice in their hearts.  There are most definately Jews who love their enemies, and cause no harm to their neighbours but just don't believe in Jesus.  There are Jews that are undecided, but pressure from family hinders them. 

Even Jesus said that if anyone speaks against the Son of Man he can be forgiven, so where there is mercy, there is a chance also in the millennium that they will be reconciled.  God has this covered and has not cut off his seed forever for he will change their hearts.  In the end it is all good for God still loves his people.