Why the Great Trib May Be of Short Duration

[WilliamL]

15 hours ago, Montana Marv said:

Much of the Fraud is in your court.

Dan 12:11 - From the time that the daily sacrifice is abolished and the abomination that causes desolation is set, there will be 1,290 days.  Blessed is the one who waits for and reaches the end of the 1,335 days.  An added 30 days and another 45 days added to the 1260 days.

Matt 24:15 - So when you see standing in the holy place the abomination that causes desolation spoken through the prophet Daniel.

Dan 9:27 - In the middle of the Seven he will put an end to sacrifice and offering.  A full week is 2520 days. 
The middle of the Week is 1260 days from the start of the week and 1260 days from the end of the week.  Jesus says there is something going on at that period of time.

So what is your point.

Daniel 12:11 is the Abomination of Desolation spoken of by Jesus in Matt. 24:15. No problem with that.

The problem is with you trying to impose the AD on Dan. 9:27, which speaks of no abomination of desolation in the Hebrew text, and which events were fulfilled in 70 AD with the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple. Daniel 9:26-27 speak of the same man causing [the Hebrew uses Hiphil verbs] both of those destructions. That man was the Roman ruler Vespasian.

There is no other biblical prophecy that speaks of the complete destruction of Jerusalem and Temple in the End Times, nor that speaks of a 7-year period of judgment thereof in the End Times. So your argument for such things derives solely from an eisegetical reading (adding something into the verse that is not there) of Daniel 9:27, without any second witness of support. In short, there is no real biblical support for this standard pre-trib argument. It is a doctrine of men, not Scripture.

[Marilyn C]

7 hours ago, WilliamL said:

How you get that from this verse is beyond me.

Hi William,

You had said - Nothing in the words of Jesus or Revelation say that the "times of the Gentiles" will end with the Great Tribulation. You've just assumed it: the texts above say nor imply no such thing.

I then posted this scripture -

`Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, & the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven,  the powers of the heavens will be shalen. Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, & then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, & they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power & great glory.` (Matt. 24: 29)

And my answer was - `That is just a few verses on from the `shortening.` When Jesus comes after the great tribulation, then NO Gentile will be ruling. The times of the Gentiles ruling the world will be finished.`

So bro, what do you see in that verse -

Marilyn.

[WilliamL]

21 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi William,

You had said - Nothing in the words of Jesus or Revelation say that the "times of the Gentiles" will end with the Great Tribulation. You've just assumed it: the texts above say nor imply no such thing.

I then posted this scripture -

`Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, & the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven,  the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, & then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, & they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power & great glory.` (Matt. 24: 29)

And my answer was - `That is just a few verses on from the `shortening.` When Jesus comes after the great tribulation, then NO Gentile will be ruling. The times of the Gentiles ruling the world will be finished.`

So bro, what do you see in that verse -

Marilyn.

Adding verse 31 --

“And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."

-- and combining and equating all this with the same celestial events at the time of the 6th Seal, I get the saints Raptured to heaven, and "the great day of God's Wrath" beginning. In which Day, the Lord's Day, Israel and the nations will be judged. That judgment clearly takes place during the Trumpets and Bowls.

They will not have been judged before the Rapture, so "the times of the Gentiles" have certainly not ended at this point when the GT has ended.

[WilliamL]

21 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi William,

You had said - Nothing in the words of Jesus or Revelation say that the "times of the Gentiles" will end with the Great Tribulation. You've just assumed it: the texts above say nor imply no such thing.

I then posted this scripture -

`Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, & the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven,  the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, & then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, & they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power & great glory.` (Matt. 24: 29)

And my answer was - `That is just a few verses on from the `shortening.` When Jesus comes after the great tribulation, then NO Gentile will be ruling. The times of the Gentiles ruling the world will be finished.`

So bro, what do you see in that verse -

Marilyn.

Adding verse 31 --

“And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."

-- and combining and equating all this with the same celestial events at the time of the 6th Seal, I get the saints Raptured to heaven, and "the great day of God's Wrath" beginning. In which Day, the Lord's Day, Israel and the nations will be judged. That judgment clearly takes place during the Trumpets and Bowls.

They will not have been judged before the Rapture, so "the times of the Gentiles" have certainly not ended at this point when the GT has ended.

[Marilyn C]

3 hours ago, WilliamL said:

Adding verse 31 --

“And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."

-- and combining and equating all this with the same celestial events at the time of the 6th Seal, I get the saints Raptured to heaven, and "the great day of God's Wrath" beginning. In which Day, the Lord's Day, Israel and the nations will be judged. That judgment clearly takes place during the Trumpets and Bowls.

They will not have been judged before the Rapture, so "the times of the Gentiles" have certainly not ended at this point when the GT has ended.

Hi William,

Now I`m just trying to understand your thoughts there bro. So are you saying -

.........Gt. trib......................X..........times of Gentiles (cont)........................I..........Millennium.

Marilyn.

Edited May 12, 2016 by Marilyn C

[WilliamL]

Yes, the times of the Gentiles end at Armageddon and Jerusalem = 7th Bowl and Rev. 19, when the Lord defeats the Beast's gathered kings of the earth. How could the times of the Gentiles/nations end before their kings with their kingdoms, all being opposed to Christ, have been defeated? The Great Trib only started the whole process off decades before.

[n2thelight]

Matthew 24:21 "For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be."   This is not the tribulation of God for there are two tribulations, and this tribulation is the tribulation of the deception. This is the tribulation of the locust army, spoken of in the book of Joel. This locust army will so pervert the minds of all men on earth, that the truth of God word will be as a desolate wilderness. It is at this time that the Holy Spirit will speak through the elect, as recorded in Acts 2:6-8. Where when the faithful of Christ were together, the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit of God. They left that room and entered the streets, and when they spoke to the multitude, "every man heard in his own language." This was Pentecost, and the Jews came from every part of the world, speaking all the languages of the world. This was not the turkey calling that is presented today, and it needed no interpreter. As we read in the book of Joel, there will be a tribulation by this locust army that will come upon the whole earth, that will come from the north, and the destruction that comes upon them, you as one of God's elect have nothing to worry about. Why? Because at the coming of Christ, and the destruction of this locust army, you will be changed into your spiritual body, and it will have no affect upon you. Fear of this time is caused by ignorance, for if you know of God's love for His own, you would know that not a hair on your head will be hurt. This is the tribulation then of the false Christ. This is the order now that Christ shall draw us back to Himself.     Matthew 24:22 "And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened." "Those days" are the days of this tribulation. If God did not shorten the time and reign of the Antichrist, no man in the flesh body would be spiritually saved, and not deceived by Satan the Antichrist. Daniel told us in Daniel 9:27 that this time of the Antichrist, the desolator, was one half of one week of years. That is one half of seven years, and it has been shortened to five [5] months. Revelation 9:5; "And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man." God lets us know not only that it will be five months, but that it will be specific five months. It will be the five months of the locust. May through September. When someone tells you that you will fly out of here, and not be on the earth where this happens, they just show you their stupidity, and lack of the knowledge of God's Word. See them for what they are, they are preparing you for the onslaught of the locust army of fallen angels, and Kenite teaching. Do you take their word over the Word of Almighty God. Ephesians 6 tells us the purpose that God's elect will be on earth, and it will be to fight against Satan, and those wicked spiritual powers. That is why you need the spiritual armor on and in place, for the warfare will be a spiritual battle, fought will words and ideas, it will be fought with the very word of God, for Satan will twist that Word, to make it a lie, when he and his forces use it against you. Matthew 24:23 "Then if any man shall say unto you, 'Lo, here is Christ,' or 'there,' believe it not." If they say, "But He is coming to fly me away"; Believe it not. It is not going to happen, because it is not written in God's Word. Matthew 24:24 "For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect." When Satan appears, he will come showing all his supernatural wonders. As it is written in Revelation 13:113, 14; "And he [Satan, the Antichrist] doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire [lightning bolts] come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men." [13] "And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast should be killed." [14] Satan is an supernatural person, as we saw from Ezekiel 28, and you can stand against him if you are prepared from the word of God. He tells us not to fret and worry, and not to even premeditate our words, when called up to give account of ourselves, for the Holy Spirit will place the words within our mouths, and give is the words to say at the right time.   http://www.theseason.org/matthew/matthew24.htm

[Marilyn C]

10 hours ago, WilliamL said:

Adding verse 31 --

“And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."

-- and combining and equating all this with the same celestial events at the time of the 6th Seal, I get the saints Raptured to heaven, and "the great day of God's Wrath" beginning. In which Day, the Lord's Day, Israel and the nations will be judged. That judgment clearly takes place during the Trumpets and Bowls.

They will not have been judged before the Rapture, so "the times of the Gentiles" have certainly not ended at this point when the GT has ended.

Hi William,

Still trying to understand your thoughts, bro. So.......is this what you mean?

 

.....................Gt. trib......................X.............Times of Gentiles cont./ Gt day of God`s wrath.................I....... Millennium.......................

 

Are you separating Gt trib, (or just trib), & the Gt day of God`s wrath? And do you mean the Gt day of God`s wrath has the 7 trumpets & 7 bowls & the judgment of the nations by the Lord?

Marilyn.

[WilliamL]

11 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

1) Are you separating Gt trib, (or just trib), & the Gt day of God`s wrath?

2)And do you mean the Gt day of God`s wrath has the 7 trumpets & 7 bowls & the judgment of the nations by the Lord?

1) Rev. 6:15 And the kings of the earth, the great men, the rich men, the commanders, the mighty men, every slave and every free man, hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains, 16 and said to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the Face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! 17 “For the great day of His wrath came, and who is able to stand?”

Read my siggy, it tells the whole order. The Day of God's Wrath begins immediately when he appears in the clouds of heaven to every eye (Rev. (1:7) = Rev. 6:16's they see his Face. At the 6th Seal.

The GT ended with, or very shortly before, the Lord's appearance, because that appearance caused the Church to be resurrected from the dead and ascend in the Rapture. The next and only mention of the Gt is in Rev. 7, speaking of the saints in heaven as having already come out of the GT -- it is now over.

2) The 7 Trumpets and 7 Bowls take place after the 6th Seal, therefore are contained in the wrath, as a number of later verses in Rev. so state.
 

[Marilyn C]

3 hours ago, WilliamL said:

1) Rev. 6:15 And the kings of the earth, the great men, the rich men, the commanders, the mighty men, every slave and every free man, hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains, 16 and said to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the Face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! 17 “For the great day of His wrath came, and who is able to stand?”

Read my siggy, it tells the whole order. The Day of God's Wrath begins immediately when he appears in the clouds of heaven to every eye (Rev. (1:7) = Rev. 6:16's they see his Face. At the 6th Seal.

The GT ended with, or very shortly before, the Lord's appearance, because that appearance caused the Church to be resurrected from the dead and ascend in the Rapture. The next and only mention of the Gt is in Rev. 7, speaking of the saints in heaven as having already come out of the GT -- it is now over.

2) The 7 Trumpets and 7 Bowls take place after the 6th Seal, therefore are contained in the wrath, as a number of later verses in Rev. so state.
 

Hi William,

Still trying to place what you see. Hope you don`t mind some more questions. So......

1. Where do you see the Lord after Armageddon & to the end of the `times of the Gentiles?`

2. What happens at the `end of the times of the Gentiles?`

3. Where is the Body of Christ during the `time of the Gentiles?`

 

Marilyn.