2. Christ Operating in the Godhead.

[Retrobyter]

On June 1, 2016 at 9:10 PM, Marilyn C said:

Hi Retrobyter,

Certainly - `Jesus answered, "My kingdom is not of this world. If my kingdom were of this world, my servants would fight, so that I should not be delivered to the Jews; but now my kingdom is not from here. Pilate therefore said to him, "Are you a king then?" Jesus answered, "You say rightly that I am a king.....` (John 18:  36 & 37)

Marilyn.

Shalom, Marilyn.

Sorry, but that is the WRONG INTERPRETATION of those verses! The Greek word there is "kosmos," not "gee." Yochanan (John) used the word the most in the New Testament (57 times). He was NOT saying that His Kingdom was not of this earth; He was saying that His Kingdom is not of this world-SYSTEM of politics! And, He ABSOLUTELY DID NOT SAY, "my kingdom is not from here!"

Here's the Greek:

Kata Iooanneen 18:36
36 Apekrithee Ieesous, Hee basileia hee emee ouk estin ek tou kosmos toutou; ei ek tou kosmou toutou een hee basileia hee emee, hoi hupeeretai hoi emoi eegoonizonto [an] hina mee paradothoo tois Ioudaiois; nun de hee basileia hee emee ook estin enteuthen.
UBS Greek New Testament

That last phrase is extremely important, and the final word "enteuthen" is defined thus:

NT:1782 enteuthen (ent-yoo'-then); from the same as NT:1759; hence (literally or figuratively); (repeated) on both sides:
KJV - (from) hence, on either side.

(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003, 2006 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.)

That when doubled the word means "on both sides," means that a single usage is more talking about a "side"; not a place. He used that word to address the world-system of politics of which the Roman governor was well familiar. 

You're not understanding the gist of the conversation. Let's go back to the beginning of this interchange:

John 18:28-38
28 Then led they Jesus from Caiaphas unto the hall of judgment: and it was early; and they themselves went not into the judgment hall, lest they should be defiled; but that they might eat the passover.
29 Pilate then went out unto them, and said, What accusation bring ye against this man?
30 They answered and said unto him, If he were not a malefactor, we would not have delivered him up unto thee.
31 Then said Pilate unto them, Take ye him, and judge him according to your law. The Jews therefore said unto him, It is not lawful for us to put any man to death:
32 That the saying of Jesus might be fulfilled, which he spake, signifying what death he should die.
33 Then Pilate entered into the judgment hall again, and called Jesus, and said unto him, Art thou the King of the Jews?
34 Jesus answered him, Sayest thou this thing of thyself, or did others tell it thee of me?
35 Pilate answered, Am I a Jew? Thine own nation and the chief priests have delivered thee unto me: what hast thou done?
36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.
37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.
38 Pilate saith unto him, What is truth? And when he had said this, he went out again unto the Jews, and saith unto them, I find in him no fault at all.
KJV

Picking up in verse 33, the governor entered the judgment hall again, and called for Yeshua`. He said to Him, "Are you 'the King of the Jews?'" using the Jewish phrase. 

Yeshua`s ears perked up, and He asked, "Do you say it this way by yourself? or did others tell it to you about me?"

Pilate said, "Am I a Jew?" (In other words, "Of course, others told it to me about you.") "This nation of yours and the high priests have turned you over to me! What have you done?"

Yeshua` said, "My kingdom is not part of this world-system: If my kingdom WERE of this world-system, then my servants would fight so that I wouldn't be turned over to the Jews. However, my kingdom is not like that!" (In other words, "Yes, I'm a King!")

The governor understood Yeshua`s words! So, he asked, "Then ARE you a king?"

Yeshua` answered, "You SAID that I'm a king; for this purpose I was born ..."

(Remember the magi asking, "Where is He that is born King of the Jews?")

"... and into this [purpose] I came into the world-system, so that I bear witness to [that] truth. Everyone who is out from [that] truth hears my voice."

Then, I imagine the governor nodded, but winking said, "What is [the] truth?" turning his attention to those outside.

After this interrogation, Pilate came out of the judgment hall, where the Jews wouldn't go for fear of contamination and where Pilate had been questioning him, came to the Jews, and said, "I find in him not even one fault."

This whole conversation was NOT about some "ethereal Kingdom off in that place called 'Heaven'." It was a SUBTLE conversation between two wise men regarding the PURPOSE for Yeshua` being brought before Pilate.

[Marilyn C]

Hi Retrobyter,

I`m having trouble with my computer so will get back to you later.

Marilyn.

 

[Marilyn C]

On ‎9‎/‎06‎/‎2016 at 5:19 PM, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, Marilyn.

Sorry, but that is the WRONG INTERPRETATION of those verses! The Greek word there is "kosmos," not "gee." Yochanan (John) used the word the most in the New Testament (57 times). He was NOT saying that His Kingdom was not of this earth; He was saying that His Kingdom is not of this world-SYSTEM of politics! And, He ABSOLUTELY DID NOT SAY, "my kingdom is not from here!"

 

 

Hi Retrobyter,

Finally have the computer trouble fixed up. So bro regarding the Lord`s words to Pilate - 

`Jesus answered, "My kingdom is not of this world. If my kingdom were of this world, my servants would fight, so that I should not be delivered to the Jews; but now my kingdom is not from here. Pilate therefore said to him, "Are you a king then?" Jesus answered, "You say rightly that I am a king.....` (John 18:  36 & 37)

No authority on earth can give the Lord Jesus Christ the authority as King (or anything else). Christ`s authority is from the Father - not of this world.

Marilyn.

 

 

[Retrobyter]

8 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Retrobyter,

Finally have the computer trouble fixed up. So bro regarding the Lord`s words to Pilate - 

`Jesus answered, "My kingdom is not of this world. If my kingdom were of this world, my servants would fight, so that I should not be delivered to the Jews; but now my kingdom is not from here. Pilate therefore said to him, "Are you a king then?" Jesus answered, "You say rightly that I am a king.....` (John 18:  36 & 37)

No authority on earth can give the Lord Jesus Christ the authority as King (or anything else). Christ`s authority is from the Father - not of this world.

Marilyn.

Shalom, Marilyn.

Glad to see you're back! Regarding "No authority on earth can give the Lord Jesus Christ the authority as King (or anything else)," I never said He was given authority by anyone else! Indeed, in the Messiah's own parable about Himself, 

Luke 19:12
12 He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return.
KJV

He acquired the Kingdom from God His Father, but that does NOT mean that He has already begun His reign! Notice the next few verses of this parable:

Luke 19:13-15
13 And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, Occupy till I come.
14 But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying, We will not have this man to reign over us.
15 And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading.
KJV

Can you see the timing? He did not issue any commands during His first Advent. It won't be until His SECOND Advent that He issues the commands as the New King, HaMelekh Yisra'el.

[Marilyn C]

12 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, Marilyn.

Glad to see you're back! Regarding "No authority on earth can give the Lord Jesus Christ the authority as King (or anything else)," I never said He was given authority by anyone else! Indeed, in the Messiah's own parable about Himself, 

Luke 19:12
12 He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return.
KJV

He acquired the Kingdom from God His Father, but that does NOT mean that He has already begun His reign! Notice the next few verses of this parable:

Luke 19:13-15
13 And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, Occupy till I come.
14 But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying, We will not have this man to reign over us.
15 And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading.
KJV

Can you see the timing? He did not issue any commands during His first Advent. It won't be until His SECOND Advent that He issues the commands as the New King, HaMelekh Yisra'el.

Hi Retrobyter,

Thanks, yes it`s good to have the fingers tapping away again. Well bro at this point, I think we both agree -

- God the Father gives Christ the authority to rule, (thus the kingdom),

- The second coming of the Lord leads to His inauguration as King.

However I think we will need a discussion on when that is. I am going to post another topic soon where we can discuss the Lord receiving this authority. I`m sure you`ll have interesting comments.

regards, Marilyn.

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, Marilyn.

Looking forward to it!