Guest Butero Posted June 12, 2016 Share Posted June 12, 2016 On 6/6/2016 at 7:13 AM, Ogner said: Matthew 27:19,20, "When he was set down on the judgment seat, his wife sent unto him, saying, Have thou nothing to do with that just man: for I have suffered many things this day in a dream because of him.But the chief priests and elders persuaded the multitude that they should ask Barabbas, and destroy Jesus." 20 verse: Οἱ δὲ (But or also?) ἀρχιερεῖς (the chief priests) καὶ (and) οἱ πρεσβύτεροι (elders) ἔπεισαν (persuaded) τοὺς ὄχλους (the multitude) ἵνα (that) αἰτήσωνται (ask) τὸν Βαραββᾶν (Barabbas) τὸν δὲ (contrariwise) ’Ιησοῦν (Jesus) ἀπολέσωσιν (destroy). The Greek word "δὲ" can be translated to English as: and, but, also, plus the fact, on top of, plus this way... l don't know who and why chose the word "but". Why not the word "also"? If this word is translated as "but". Somebody might get the idea that Pilate's wife to asked for Jesus. If this word is translated as "also". Somebody might get the idea that Pilate's wife to asked for Barabbas. I don't know Pilate's wife. And I don't know how thoughts run of she. How can we prove that Pilate's wife to asked for Jesus? Lets explore this further by backing up a couple of verses. 15 Now at that feast the governor was wont to release unto the people a prisoner, whom they would. 16 And they had then a notable prisoner, called Barabbas. 17 Therefore when they were gathered together, Pilate said unto them, Whom will ye that I release unto you? Barabbas, or Jesus which is called Christ? 18 For he knew that for envy they had delivered him. 19 When he was set down on the judgment seat, his wife sent unto him, saying, Have thou nothing to do with that just man: for I have suffered many things this day in a dream because of him. 20 But the chief priests and elders persuaded the multitude that they should ask Barabbas, and destroy Jesus. In verse 18, it states that Pilate knew that the prisoner was delivered because of envy. In the following verse, speaking of the same man, Pilot's wife says he should have nothing to do with "that just man." Barabbas wasn't delivered because of envy. We know why Barabbas was delivered to the authorities by the account given in Mark 15:7, where it says, "And there was one named Barabbas, which lay bound with them that had made insurrection with him, who had committed murder in the insurrection." It was Jesus that was delivered because the religious leaders were jealous. Clearly, Pilot's wife was speaking of Jesus, not Barabbas. How could she call a murderer "that just man?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Butero Posted June 12, 2016 Share Posted June 12, 2016 10 hours ago, Ogner said: If I/You call Jesus a righteous that still doesn't prove what she did. Do you think that The Jews deliberate chose Barabbas because they believed Barabbas was a sinner and they believed Jesus was an innocent man? If that's what you really think, why you never crossed your mind she could be lying? If you think that The Jews chose Barabbas because they believed Barabbas was an innocent man and they believed Jesus was a sinner. She might thought the same. Or maybe Pilate's wife didn't want any trouble and she would just tell him to do what Jews wanted. The people knew Barabbas was a murderer. They just wanted to make sure that while they had Jesus in custody, he was crucified. The multitude had been worked up into a frenzy by the religious leaders who convinced them Jesus was guilty of blasphemy. They preferred to have a murderer released than allow the man they thought to be a blasphemer set free. It makes no sense to believe that Pilot's wife or the multitude thought Barabbas was a just man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RustyAngeL Posted June 13, 2016 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 23 Topic Count: 155 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 7,464 Content Per Day: 1.02 Reputation: 8,810 Days Won: 57 Joined: 03/30/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/12/1952 Share Posted June 13, 2016 7 minutes ago, Butero said: The people knew Barabbas was a murderer. They just wanted to make sure that while they had Jesus in custody, he was crucified. The multitude had been worked up into a frenzy by the religious leaders who convinced them Jesus was guilty of blasphemy. They preferred to have a murderer released than allow the man they thought to be a blasphemer set free. It makes no sense to believe that Pilot's wife or the multitude thought Barabbas was a just man. No Pilot's wife was not referring to Barabbas when she said , have nothing to do with this just man. She was speaking of Jesus. How could anyone in their right minds think that Barabbas was a just man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogner Posted June 13, 2016 Group: Senior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 562 Content Per Day: 0.19 Reputation: 268 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/27/2016 Status: Offline Author Share Posted June 13, 2016 10 hours ago, Butero said: The people knew Barabbas was a murderer. They just wanted to make sure that while they had Jesus in custody, he was crucified. The multitude had been worked up into a frenzy by the religious leaders who convinced them Jesus was guilty of blasphemy. They preferred to have a murderer released than allow the man they thought to be a blasphemer set free. It makes no sense to believe that Pilot's wife or the multitude thought Barabbas was a just man. Are you trying to say that Pilate and even woman-gentile understood what Jesus was innocent but the Jews didn't understand? Put yourself in her place. The Jews chose Barabbas. Then they all said to Pilate, "Let Jesus be crucified" and all the people said, "His blood be on us, and on our children." Perhaps she couldn't believe what the Jews want to kill an innocent man and then she had thought that Barabbas was an innocent man. Maybe Pilate's wife didn't want any trouble and she would just tell him to do what Jews wanted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogner Posted June 13, 2016 Group: Senior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 562 Content Per Day: 0.19 Reputation: 268 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/27/2016 Status: Offline Author Share Posted June 13, 2016 11 hours ago, RustyAngeL said: No Pilot's wife was not referring to Barabbas when she said , have nothing to do with this just man. She was speaking of Jesus. How could anyone in their right minds think that Barabbas was a just man. If you ask Jews In Israel now, "who is a worthy man to you, Jesus or IDF soldier who killed people." what do you think they would say? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogner Posted June 14, 2016 Group: Senior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 562 Content Per Day: 0.19 Reputation: 268 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/27/2016 Status: Offline Author Share Posted June 14, 2016 (edited) On 12.06.2016 at 6:37 AM, Ezra said: This thread is simply bizarre. You want the world to believe that Pilate's wife wanted to see Barabbas released. That is a purely fanciful scenario. This thread is simply bizarre. You want the world to believe that Pilate's wife wanted to see Jesus released. That is a purely fanciful scenario. Edited June 14, 2016 by Ogner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogner Posted June 14, 2016 Group: Senior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 562 Content Per Day: 0.19 Reputation: 268 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/27/2016 Status: Offline Author Share Posted June 14, 2016 On 12.06.2016 at 6:37 AM, Ezra said: As to being biased against Pilate, the man condemned himself when he had multiple opportunities to do the right thing. There's absolutely nothing admirable about Pontius Pilate. Perhaps the only thing he did right (and that too out of malice) was to have that superscription posted on the Cross to let the whole world know that he was crucifying Jesus of Nazareth, the King of the Jews. But still I do not understand. Many times Pilate to tell them that he find no fault in this man and he wishes to release Jesus. But it seems to me he's tried his best and he's done the decent thing. Do you know anyone else who had done more for Jesus than Pilate? What was he supposed to do? Should he have killed jews? Or what? Pilate's wife to asked for Barabbas or Jesus, you don't know for sure. And you're protecting her as a defender of Jesus. Why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogner Posted June 14, 2016 Group: Senior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 562 Content Per Day: 0.19 Reputation: 268 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/27/2016 Status: Offline Author Share Posted June 14, 2016 (edited) On 12.06.2016 at 6:37 AM, Ezra said: Perhaps the only thing he did right (and that too out of malice) was to have that superscription posted on the Cross to let the whole world know that he was crucifying Jesus of Nazareth, the King of the Jews. What makes you think that he did it out of malice? Edited June 14, 2016 by Ogner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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