Preserve Faith-Based Higher Education

[Esther4:14]

Looks like there is effort to change laws in California which would hinder the Christian colleges in that state.  I have never gone to a Christian college in California, but I am a long term supporter of Christian education; and if they can change and hinder Christian colleges in one state, they can start doing it in others over time.  So if anyone can pray about this, I would appreciate it a whole lot.  I believe Christian education in America is one of the only ways we will ever see any kind of revival take place in this country again.  Here is a link to the article from Biola University http://now.biola.edu/news/article/2016/jun/08/preserve-faith-based-higher-education/

[Guest shiloh357]

The problem is that what passes for "Christian" in this country is radically changing.   Kids are being subjected early on to progressive, postmodern values, even in the "Christian" schools.  

Postmodernism is basically an attack on absolute truth and objective moral values.   It has been going on for some time in secular schools and now those who were educated in a postmodern mindset, who had their views shaped in that way are now in Christians schools, Bible colleges and seminaries.   And those students will take the postmodern "Christian" perspective into the ministry, or wherever they go. 

Christian schools, even evangelical schools are not what they used to be.  It is being corrupted from within by the modern educational system.  Seminaries, in particular, are becoming EXTREMELY liberal and a revival will not come from them or Christian educational system.

[Esther4:14]

18 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

The problem is that what passes for "Christian" in this country is radically changing.   Kids are being subjected early on to progressive, postmodern values, even in the "Christian" schools.  

Postmodernism is basically an attack on absolute truth and objective moral values.   It has been going on for some time in secular schools and now those who were educated in a postmodern mindset, who had their views shaped in that way are now in Christians schools, Bible colleges and seminaries.   And those students will take the postmodern "Christian" perspective into the ministry, or wherever they go. 

Christian schools, even evangelical schools are not what they used to be.  It is being corrupted from within by the modern educational system.  Seminaries, in particular, are becoming EXTREMELY liberal and a revival will not come from them or Christian educational system.

Not quite sure I understand what you are promoting.  So, you are saying we should not try to keep the freedom to have faith based colleges because some colleges integrate more of a postmodern approach?   Christian colleges, for the most part, are influenced by their denomination.  Therefore, this is going to factor into the curriculum.  However, the potential for revival comes from being able to take any subject, and exercise understanding of scripture in order to become prepared to give an answer to anyone concerning our faith (1 Peter 3:15).  

This is an area where the church is sorely lacking because we do not often exercise our faith in discussion of more baisc subjects outside of Bible study at our church or our unified conservative opinions towards what is released through news media.  

In particular, one of the greatest exercises I had in my experience in a Christian college, was learning to balance my argument with a counter argument within my research paper.  I don't think most of us realize how biased we are in our thinking until we are required to exercise including the opposing counter argument as a foundation for demonstrating thouroghly researching a subject.  I don't think most of us realize how quickly we are to assume that it is not important to research the other side of the argument with a more professional respect for their participation in the discussion.  I didn't realize this at first myself, but it is a very important way of demonstrating objectivity and persuading anyone to accept your thesis.  

Therefore, we become more objective within institutions of higher learning and as the body of Christ, we should concern ourselves with whether the freedom to continue to grow in persuasiveness within our communities continues.  

Most of the people we esteem within the history of the church have also benefited from some sort of Christian education, so this is never a subject of discussion to just throw in the towel in defeat as though the influence of postmodernism were enough to defeat the intention of God to equip His people with the opportunitu to exercise our spiritual lives in a greater way and gain more understanding.  To lose such a freedom as though it were not important to maintain for the sake of the church, would be one of our greater losses of influence as believers in Christ.   

[Guest shiloh357]

8 hours ago, Esther4:14 said:

Not quite sure I understand what you are promoting.  So, you are saying we should not try to keep the freedom to have faith based colleges because some colleges integrate more of a postmodern approach?   Christian colleges, for the most part, are influenced by their denomination.  Therefore, this is going to factor into the curriculum.  However, the potential for revival comes from being able to take any subject, and exercise understanding of scripture in order to become prepared to give an answer to anyone concerning our faith (1 Peter 3:15).  

This is an area where the church is sorely lacking because we do not often exercise our faith in discussion of more baisc subjects outside of Bible study at our church or our unified conservative opinions towards what is released through news media.  

In particular, one of the greatest exercises I had in my experience in a Christian college, was learning to balance my argument with a counter argument within my research paper.  I don't think most of us realize how biased we are in our thinking until we are required to exercise including the opposing counter argument as a foundation for demonstrating thouroghly researching a subject.  I don't think most of us realize how quickly we are to assume that it is not important to research the other side of the argument with a more professional respect for their participation in the discussion.  I didn't realize this at first myself, but it is a very important way of demonstrating objectivity and persuading anyone to accept your thesis.  

Therefore, we become more objective within institutions of higher learning and as the body of Christ, we should concern ourselves with whether the freedom to continue to grow in persuasiveness within our communities continues.  

Most of the people we esteem within the history of the church have also benefited from some sort of Christian education, so this is never a subject of discussion to just throw in the towel in defeat as though the influence of postmodernism were enough to defeat the intention of God to equip His people with the opportunitu to exercise our spiritual lives in a greater way and gain more understanding.  To lose such a freedom as though it were not important to maintain for the sake of the church, would be one of our greater losses of influence as believers in Christ.   

What I was trying to point out is that Christianity is changing in the US and this is happening in the educational level, even in Christian schools and Christian higher education.   It isn't what it used to be.   Fewer and fewer ministers coming out of Christian education believe in the core doctrines of the Christians faith and the younger pastors are accepting things like gay marriage.   Churches all over this country are in lock-step with the world.  They are performing gay marriages and ordaining gay pastors and gay deacons/elders.   Christians are far more accepting of homosexuality than they ever were and it is because of the shepherds who lead them.

Fewer Christians believe that Christianity and church is relevant to them anymore.  They have no sense of holiness.   Church membership is in decline because their pastors spend more time explaining why one does not need to believe the Bible is 100% of the word of God.   They are teaching people to accept evolution and discard Genesis as nothing more than poetry.   Much of the Bible is rejected as historical or even binding on the Christian.    So if a person is led by the pastor to believe that the Bible is irrelevant, why go to Church.

Christian education is very, very liberal nowadays in many places and so there is less and less about it that we should be trying to preserve.   What needs to happen is a divine purging of the system.   The Christian education system needs a huge overhaul.

[missmuffet]

36 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

What I was trying to point out is that Christianity is changing in the US and this is happening in the educational level, even in Christian schools and Christian higher education.   It isn't what it used to be.   Fewer and fewer ministers coming out of Christian education believe in the core doctrines of the Christians faith and the younger pastors are accepting things like gay marriage.   Churches all over this country are in lock-step with the world.  They are performing gay marriages and ordaining gay pastors and gay deacons/elders.   Christians are far more accepting of homosexuality than they ever were and it is because of the shepherds who lead them.

Fewer Christians believe that Christianity and church is relevant to them anymore.  They have no sense of holiness.   Church membership is in decline because their pastors spend more time explaining why one does not need to believe the Bible is 100% of the word of God.   They are teaching people to accept evolution and discard Genesis as nothing more than poetry.   Much of the Bible is rejected as historical or even binding on the Christian.    So if a person is led by the pastor to believe that the Bible is irrelevant, why go to Church.

Christian education is very, very liberal nowadays in many places and so there is less and less about it that we should be trying to preserve.   What needs to happen is a divine purging of the system.   The Christian education system needs a huge overhaul.

I totally can see what you are saying. I have been observing this on many levels.

[Esther4:14]

29 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

What I was trying to point out is that Christianity is changing in the US and this is happening in the educational level, even in Christian schools and Christian higher education.   It isn't what it used to be.   Fewer and fewer ministers coming out of Christian education believe in the core doctrines of the Christians faith and the younger pastors are accepting things like gay marriage.   Churches all over this country are in lock-step with the world.  They are performing gay marriages and ordaining gay pastors and gay deacons/elders.   Christians are far more accepting of homosexuality than they ever were and it is because of the shepherds who lead them.

Fewer Christians believe that Christianity and church is relevant to them anymore.  They have no sense of holiness.   Church membership is in decline because their pastors spend more time explaining why one does not need to believe the Bible is 100% of the word of God.   They are teaching people to accept evolution and discard Genesis as nothing more than poetry.   Much of the Bible is rejected as historical or even binding on the Christian.    So if a person is led by the pastor to believe that the Bible is irrelevant, why go to Church.

Christian education is very, very liberal nowadays in many places and so there is less and less about it that we should be trying to preserve.   What needs to happen is a divine purging of the system.   The Christian education system needs a huge overhaul.

Well, then the law might be the final nail in the coffin in regard to what your saying.  What it would do is restrict what majors a faith-based institution could provide to ministry positions.  This would confirm an effort to control Christian education to the demands of outside influences, which is a negative aspect present in our Christian education system, I would agree.  

However, this still does not mean that there aren't many good things that would be hindered as well if we are legally not allowed to provide majors outside of ministry in Christian colleges.  

I think one of the best classes I took in Christian college was economics and being able to apply a Biblical perspective to a book called Naked Economics:Undressing the Dismal Science.  This was not a book with any sort of theological reflection of its own.  I loved it and it was a fantastic experience, which I would never have been able to get in an state school.

 When comparing my experience with Christian college to the community college I went to, Christian college gave me an opportunity to discuss faith with a variety of subjects.  Whereas, if I had continued in the community college I went to, I would have been required to censure everything in the face of the freedom professors had to condemn religion.  Oh, if I could have videotaped the speech my sociology teacher gave about the hypocrisy of Christianity one day.

So even with the pressure to adopt liberal views in our schools, they are not a lost cause by any means, and we should care about whether we continue to have the freedom to provide them.  It would be a terrible thing to lose.  I have had great experiences in Christian colleges that I went to which has greatly surpassed my experience in state schools.  

[Esther4:14]

9 minutes ago, bopeep1909 said:

I totally can see what you are saying. I have been observing this on many levels.

You know, I bet you everyone who writes for that GotQuestions site has attended a Christian college.  It is what I think of every time you post one of their responses that there writing style reflects an objectivity that I am familiar with from school.  The way they include all points of view with an effort to still be persuasive towards a Biblical conclusion demonstrates the exercise of objectivity I was talking about.   

Here on the forum, there are several boards that have a message pinned about being careful to not present a lop sided message, which the authors of GotQuestions seem to be trying to provide.  This is exactly the kind of activity that is practiced in faith-based schools, and something I often think people outside of this environment don't seem to understand very well in the body of Christ.  I think this is evidenced by the way I have seen people talk to each other over differences of opinion.  Instead of being able to keep peaceful discussions, it is like people almost become tribal and take sides and draw lines.  

I don't know why it would be so hard to find something we could agree on with another person so that there was a greater opportunity to keep a peaceful discussion.  I don't see how this would represent backsliding for me to do in most cases.  But, apparently, it is grounds for a witch hunt at times and this is exactly why we need faith-based colleges to get rid of this sort of dross.  

[missmuffet]

7 minutes ago, Esther4:14 said:

You know, I bet you everyone who writes for that GotQuestions site has attended a Christian college.  It is what I think of every time you post one of their responses that there writing style reflects an objectivity that I am familiar with from school.  The way they include all points of view with an effort to still be persuasive towards a Biblical conclusion demonstrates the exercise of objectivity I was talking about.   

Here on the forum, there are several boards that have a message pinned about being careful to not present a lop sided message, which the authors of GotQuestions seem to be trying to provide.  This is exactly the kind of activity that is practiced in faith-based schools, and something I often think people outside of this environment don't seem to understand very well in the body of Christ.  I think this is evidenced by the way I have seen people talk to each other over differences of opinion.  Instead of being able to keep peaceful discussions, it is like people almost become tribal and take sides and draw lines.  

I don't know why it would be so hard to find something we could agree on with another person so that there was a greater opportunity to keep a peaceful discussion.  I don't see how this would represent backsliding for me to do in most cases.  But, apparently, it is grounds for a witch hunt at times and this is exactly why we need faith-based colleges to get rid of this sort of dross.  

For those who are posting false doctrine "Got Questions" may appear as lopsided but they do present the true Word of God which I think is very important.I want members on Worthy to weigh the truth against that which is false. They always provide a lot of Scripture to back up their belief. I think it is important to all those on Worthy to have their eyes and mind see and digest what is the truth. I have seen some really scary and false teachings on here. We do know that the Bible says that allowing a person to stumble and fall in their understanding of who God is is very dangerous. Those who teach false doctrine will be the most harshly judged.

That is certainly your choice and view to say that "Got Questions" is a lopsided and incorrect view perhaps because it does not concur with your Biblical views. To compare it with the way our schools are presenting the truth today is false.

[Guest shiloh357]

21 minutes ago, Esther4:14 said:

Well, then the law might be the final nail in the coffin in regard to what your saying.  What it would do is restrict what majors a faith-based institution could provide to ministry positions.  This would confirm an effort to control Christian education to the demands of outside influences, which is a negative aspect present in our Christian education system, I would agree.  

However, this still does not mean that there aren't many good things that would be hindered as well if we are legally not allowed to provide majors outside of ministry in Christian colleges.  

I think one of the best classes I took in Christian college was economics and being able to apply a Biblical perspective to a book called Naked Economics:Undressing the Dismal Science.  This was not a book with any sort of theological reflection of its own.  I loved it and it was a fantastic experience, which I would never have been able to get in an state school.

 When comparing my experience with Christian college to the community college I went to, Christian college gave me an opportunity to discuss faith with a variety of subjects.  Whereas, if I had continued in the community college I went to, I would have been required to censure everything in the face of the freedom professors had to condemn religion.  Oh, if I could have videotaped the speech my sociology teacher gave about the hypocrisy of Christianity one day.

So even with the pressure to adopt liberal views in our schools, they are not a lost cause by any means, and we should care about whether we continue to have the freedom to provide them.  It would be a terrible thing to lose.  I have had great experiences in Christian colleges that I went to which has greatly surpassed my experience in state schools.  

It doesn't appear that we have to worry about Christian colleges not being allowed to provide ministry majors.    Rather, the problem is that those ministry majors will be state approved, meaning that if a Christian college provides ministry majors, they will comply with government standards and guidelines.  In fact, Christian colleges (like the one I went to) are becoming so liberal, unfortunately, that they will happily comply with those government standards.  Most Christian colleges are very, very lax doctrinally.   There may be a few who have not compromised but most do.   They accept government funds in order to have university status which improves their accreditation and that, in turn, means more students and thus more revenue.   A degree from a Christian university is better than from a college.

[Esther4:14]

33 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

It doesn't appear that we have to worry about Christian colleges not being allowed to provide ministry majors.    Rather, the problem is that those ministry majors will be state approved, meaning that if a Christian college provides ministry majors, they will comply with government standards and guidelines.  In fact, Christian colleges (like the one I went to) are becoming so liberal, unfortunately, that they will happily comply with those government standards.  Most Christian colleges are very, very lax doctrinally.   There may be a few who have not compromised but most do.   They accept government funds in order to have university status which improves their accreditation and that, in turn, means more students and thus more revenue.   A degree from a Christian university is better than from a college.

Well technically that is the point of the post.  So then what you are saying is that Christian colleges should be supported because there is a decline in quality as the result of the influence of the state?

I would be saying something of the same thing and that going to a Christian college still provides a wider variety of opportunities for freedom of speech in regards to matter of spirituality then secular schools do.  

But, the states expectations in return for funding is an issue for the church all across the board.  It is one of my primary complaints with the healthcare system too.  I think hospitals are greatly hindered by what they cant do because they receive funding from the state.  I think small business is hindered by state requirements.  

Economically, we are actively being enslaved and oppressed, which still has nothing to do with whether it is important or not to maintain the freedom to discuss subjects that may or may not introduce spiritual principles, from a Biblical perspective.  We should take advantage of this for as long as we are able to and seek to maintain this freedom for as long as we can that we may be equipped to discuss matters of fai in the complex modern world we live in.