OldSchool2 Posted June 18, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 7 Topic Count: 701 Topics Per Day: 0.13 Content Count: 7,511 Content Per Day: 1.35 Reputation: 1,759 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/16/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/18/1955 Share Posted June 18, 2016 6 hours ago, Openly Curious said: You should read...John 11:45-57 - especially vs. (49-53) Caiaphas was not advising any one as you say as he was not in on the plot with the Pharisees to kill Jesus. Instead Caiaphas who was the high priest that year told them that they didn't know any thing at all (vs. 49). Nor was they taking it into account that it was expedient (necessary) for Jesus to die for them so none would perish (vs. 50). Caiaphas was speaking concerning Jesus being our High Priest and was not speaking of his own self (vs. 51).... Nonetheless, "... The spirits of prophets are subject to the control of prophets" (1 Cor. 14:32). It's not as if Caiaphas was "possessed." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Openly Curious Posted June 18, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 55 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,568 Content Per Day: 0.68 Reputation: 770 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/18/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted June 18, 2016 4 hours ago, OldSchool2 said: Nonetheless, "... The spirits of prophets are subject to the control of prophets" (1 Cor. 14:32). It's not as if Caiaphas was "possessed." What??? I never said or even suggested that Caiaphas was possessed. Where did that come from? It was the Spirit of God that revealed those things to Caiaphas concerning Jesus during the course of what was happening as they were plotting to kill Jesus. During what was going on Caiaphas prophesied the truth by the Spirit of God concerning the man Jesus as it was the will of God that he would lay down his life willingly paying the ransom price for the sins of the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldSchool2 Posted June 18, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 7 Topic Count: 701 Topics Per Day: 0.13 Content Count: 7,511 Content Per Day: 1.35 Reputation: 1,759 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/16/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/18/1955 Share Posted June 18, 2016 14 minutes ago, Openly Curious said: What??? I never said or even suggested that Caiaphas was possessed.... A straw man argument as no one said or even suggested that you did. Nonetheless "... The spirits of prophets are subject to the control of prophets" (1 Cor. 14:32). Or are you saying these spirits are not subject to the prophets? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Openly Curious Posted June 18, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 55 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,568 Content Per Day: 0.68 Reputation: 770 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/18/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted June 18, 2016 6 hours ago, OldSchool2 said: A straw man argument as no one said or even suggested that you did. Nonetheless "... The spirits of prophets are subject to the control of prophets" (1 Cor. 14:32). Or are you saying these spirits are not subject to the prophets? We know what Caiaphas said about Jesus. What exactly does your scripture about "the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets" have to do with anything? How does it affect the meaning of what Caiaphas prophesied concerning Jesus. Your argument comes across as a straw man argument to me. More of a diversion if you will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldSchool2 Posted June 19, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 7 Topic Count: 701 Topics Per Day: 0.13 Content Count: 7,511 Content Per Day: 1.35 Reputation: 1,759 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/16/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/18/1955 Share Posted June 19, 2016 10 hours ago, Openly Curious said: We know what Caiaphas said about Jesus. What exactly does your scripture about "the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets" have to do with anything? How does it affect the meaning of what Caiaphas prophesied concerning Jesus.... What does prophecy have to do with those doing the prophesizing, i.e., does Caiaphas bear any personal responsibility for advising the Sanhedrin that it was expedient for Jesus die on behalf of the people (John 18:14) because he was acting as High Priest that year? Was Caiaphas merely the messenger, or did he actually concur with this course of action? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwikphilly Posted June 19, 2016 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 96 Topic Count: 307 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 18,136 Content Per Day: 4.63 Reputation: 27,816 Days Won: 327 Joined: 08/03/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted June 19, 2016 Blessings Woundeddog Interesting question because you ask"Knowing what you know today",,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Had I been one in the crowd,I don't know what i would have been ,thought or said,as one of them,,,,,but this question is different,,,,,,,,,,,probably with the same answer "I don't know?" Knowing "Jesus" I suppose is what makes the question so difficult for me to answer,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,knowing 'what" I know,,,,I know that He had to give His Life for all of us,,,,Knowing "Who" I know I know I could not have yelled"Crucify Him,crucify Him"........I'm sure I would not be unlike one of the Mary's ,John or Peter & just wept, I would not have w4anted to see my Lord,my God suffer & die for me,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Praise Jesus With love-in Christ,Kwik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woundeddog Posted June 19, 2016 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 44 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,370 Content Per Day: 0.25 Reputation: 1,054 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/21/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/18/1868 Author Share Posted June 19, 2016 1 hour ago, kwikphilly said: Knowing "Jesus" I suppose is what makes the question so difficult for me to answer, I guess the point of the question is that we know Jesus had to die- and for us salvation is accepting that he did--- but if we had been there before he gave himself for us we would have had to ask him to do it for us. I was imagining in my mind standing before Jesus and saying " Please Lord. die for me" made me look at his sacrifice a little differently Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Openly Curious Posted June 20, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 55 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,568 Content Per Day: 0.68 Reputation: 770 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/18/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted June 20, 2016 15 hours ago, OldSchool2 said: What does prophecy have to do with those doing the prophesizing, i.e., does Caiaphas bear any personal responsibility for advising the Sanhedrin that it was expedient for Jesus die on behalf of the people (John 18:14) because he was acting as High Priest that year? Was Caiaphas merely the messenger, or did he actually concur with this course of action? No I do not believe that Caiaphas bore any personal responsibility for prophesying. Those that were plotting to kill Jesus through false accusations and such simply did not know what was happening they just didn't want the people to believe on Jesus. Caiaphas was stating a fact of what was happening as it was necessary (expedient) for Jesus to die so salvation would come to the world. Caiaphas even told those plotting to kill Jesus that they knew nothing at all concerning Jesus. If they had knew who Jesus really was then they wouldn't have plotted to catch him or crucify him. Caiaphas was only speaking forth what the Spirit of God revealed to him and what was written by the Old Testament prophets concerning Jesus. The Pharisees and the Sanhedrin's were not prophets nor was Caiaphas a prophet (if that is what you are suggesting they were and therefore they had to submit to one another). Perhaps you could clarify for us what you think it actually means for "the spirits of the prophets to be subject unto the prophets". I do not believe that Caiaphas was in on the plot to kill Jesus one bit but spoke forth (prophesied) the truth to them of Jesus being the Savior of the world being sent by God. The Spirit of God revealed this to Caiaphas during the things that were going on around him. Those plotting to kill Jesus so that the people wouldn't believe on him had no clue what the will of God was that was being fulfilled that the Old Testament prophets had written concerning Jesus. I do not believe at all that Caiaphas agreed (concurred. or went along with) the Sanhedrin's or the Pharisees plot to kill Jesus. Caiaphas counsel (prophecy) instead revealed who Jesus was to them the only begotten Son of God who would pay the ransom price for the sins of the world. Obviously they gave no heed to Caiaphas's words and went forward false accusing Jesus among the mob so they would crucify Him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldSchool2 Posted June 20, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 7 Topic Count: 701 Topics Per Day: 0.13 Content Count: 7,511 Content Per Day: 1.35 Reputation: 1,759 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/16/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/18/1955 Share Posted June 20, 2016 8 hours ago, Openly Curious said: No I do not believe that Caiaphas bore any personal responsibility for prophesying.... In Exodus, Pharaoh is said to have hardened his heart about as many times as God was said to have hardened it. And there is no attempt in the text to reconcile these two positions: they are both presented as being equally true. And even if Caiaphas was part of the plot to kill Jesus, I doubt he was unaware of it since the Sanhedrin not only took council to kill Christ (John 11:53) but Lazarus as well (John 12:9-11). As high priest how could Caiaphas have been so clueless not to know any of these plots being hatched right under his own nose? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwikphilly Posted June 21, 2016 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 96 Topic Count: 307 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 18,136 Content Per Day: 4.63 Reputation: 27,816 Days Won: 327 Joined: 08/03/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted June 21, 2016 Quote As high priest how could Caiaphas have been so clueless not to know any of these plots being hatched right under his own nose? posted by Old School Quote Caiaphas was only speaking forth what the Spirit of God revealed to him and what was written by the Old Testament prophets concerning Jesus. The Pharisees and the Sanhedrin's were not prophets nor was Caiaphas a prophet (if that is what you are suggesting they were and therefore they had to submit to one another). posted by Openly Curious Because He had "no clue" is exactly right,not having Revelation himself ,by the Holy Spirit of God,not Understanding Gods Will ,,,,,,,many times God Will Reveal things through the UNbeliever,,,,,,,,it is only Received by the Power of the Holy Spirit that it be Revealed to,,,,,,,,He did not have FAITH in the knowledge of WHO Jesus is,our Lord & Savior,,,,as "his" Lord & Savior,,,,,,,,,,,,, With Love-in Christ,Kwik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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