Only for those with eyes to see and ears to hear

[enoob57]

2 hours ago, SIC said:

So this is what I understand by what all of you have posted.

A genuine believer once saved, has a deep rooted desire to be perfect in Holiness, but being human he fails from time to time. But irrespective of his failure God is faithful and will ensure that he remains in Him.

Is that right?

So well then I don't quite understand how this verse fits in

Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed--not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence--continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling,

If I'm saved once for all with absolutely no chance of falling away then why should I work out my salvation in fear and trembling?

There is also the perceived aspect of still desiring the pleasures of sin... yes we have the flesh that can only desire this Roman 7 and
we are to reckon this to be the death we have been delivered from! As new born^s this is much more poignant and because
it is so-> the question arises how can I be saved and still recognize these desires present within myself?
After all it is God's witness of these-
Mt 7:21-23
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
KJV    How do I know I am not one of these by self deception?
This tension resides with those who are trying to live in the strength of the flesh...  (either by) reality of new born who have well
deepened ruts where they have commanded themselves all of their lives up and to the point of salvation OR those who are trying
some other way than through The Door of Being that 'IS' of The Christ
Jn 10:1-5
10 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.

2 But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.

3 To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.

4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.

5 And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.
KJV

The Shepherd of our souls has a perfect record

Jn 17:12
12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
KJV
 

'The Faith' is to be born of God by s/Spirit so that the first born realities are of no more of importance than that which passes away ;
And the Second Born realities are the total of what we are in the keeping of forever formed from His Word through The Spirit...
His Word and your soul formed from His Word >or not< is all that will proceed from here! It has been given to all men to believe
and repent~ God does not carry the guilt of your decision but is yours forever- either way you choose....   
That is why this is written

Jos 24:15

15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the Lord, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.
KJV

 Love, Steven

 

[Guest shiloh357]

29 minutes ago, SIC said:

 

All I am saying is God has granted us salvation and we have the freedom in Christ . That doesn't mean that we can take our salvation lightly and hope to be taken up to heaven with no effort on our part. The salvation is granted for free. But we need to put in some effort towards guarding our hearts, minds and members from sin and ensure that we walk in the light with endurance till the very end. We cannot sit back and take our salvation for granted.

Live as free people, but do not use your freedom as a cover-up for evil; live as God's slaves.

This verse to me means that it is quite possible for a person who is saved to use his /her freedom in Christ as a cover up for evil. Which is why Peter is warning against it.  In other words our salvation is never to be taken for granted. We received it for free . Yes. But we need to put in more than a little effort to guard it as a prized possession in tandem with God. If we take it for granted and start using it as a cover up for evil without repenting till the very end. Then God also cannot save us.

 

Yeah, I already said it is not about taking salvation lightly.  

But you are wrong if you think that salvation depends on your effort.   You are either trusting yourself or you are trusting Jesus.   Jesus paid for our sin.   You have nothing to offer God.   Your best works on your best days is filthy rags.  

Salvation is Jesus plus nothing.   You have nothing offer and He wants nothing from you.  

Our obedience is the fruit of our salvation.  It is not how we get saved.   Jesus saves and Jesus keeps us saved.  YOU do not keep yourself saved.   You are not a co-savior with Jesus.

Those who choose to live in sin while claiming to be saved only prove that they are not saved at all and never were.   Those who are genuinely saved are not taking salvation for granted.  

I think part of the problem here is that you have a broader definition of who is or is not a Christian.   Those who can live in sin and enjoy it are only fooling themselves if they think they were ever saved to start with.   They were never saved and you can't lose a salvation you never had.

[woundeddog]

8 hours ago, SIC said:

Salvation is not an one way ticket . One needs to walk in the light till the very end. Only then one reaches heaven

I'm sorry brother but you are in error--- you are basing your salvation on your ability to maintain it- bot on Jesus' ability to hold you--- In my opinion that is an act of pride

[enoob57]

27 minutes ago, SIC said:

So are you saying there is no possibility of a  permanent falling away?

For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt.

This verse seems to suggest that there is a possibility of a permanent falling away

I am coming soon. Hold fast what you have, so that no one may seize your crown.

This verse seems to suggest that holding on to Christ is not going to be exactly a walk in the park

 

 

Their are two perspectives within the Word of God
1. God speaking from His Own a place of complete righteousness where we have never been...
2. God speaking to man in his error leading him to Himself into the complete righteousness... 
There shall never be unrighteousness with God!
Love, Steven

[enoob57]

SIC one other thing to think about is this:
God's Being / Make up as The Who of Him is without begin and end... How then in your mind
can that which has beginning  earn that which has always been? It would be like trading
nothing for all! Like me holding out my hand that is empty and asking you to give me all
your money for what I have in my hand... This is the perspective of God unto idol worship
or those who think there is value in the created substance past begin and end of it...
Plainly how can I take that which ends and make it forever? OR How can I expect to find
a forever substance in that which ends?     Love, Steven

[SIC]

21 minutes ago, woundeddog said:

I'm sorry brother but you are in error--- you are basing your salvation on your ability to maintain it- bot on Jesus' ability to hold you--- In my opinion that is an act of pride

All I'm saying is one needs to work in tandem with God to maintain one's salvation. 

[SIC]

26 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

I think part of the problem here is that you have a broader definition of who is or is not a Christian.   Those who can live in sin and enjoy it are only fooling themselves if they think they were ever saved to start with.   They were never saved and you can't lose a salvation you never had.

Maybe this part is right. 

As to the rest. I don't deny that Jesus ALONE can save us.

But scripture seems to talk about a permanent falling away

For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt.

Like this verse for example.

Now if the maintenance of salvation requires absolutely no active effort on our part then why do some fall away and some don't?

Is God partial?

 

[SIC]

19 minutes ago, enoob57 said:

Their are two perspectives within the Word of God
1. God speaking from His Own a place of complete righteousness where we have never been...
2. God speaking to man in his error leading him to Himself into the complete righteousness... 
There shall never be unrighteousness with God!
Love, Steven

I dont get what you are saying

[enoob57]

47 minutes ago, enoob57 said:

Their are two perspectives within the Word of God
1. God speaking from His Own a place of complete righteousness where we have never been...
2. God speaking to man in his error leading him to Himself into the complete righteousness... 
There shall never be unrighteousness with God!
Love, Steven

 

28 minutes ago, SIC said:

I dont get what you are saying

All that read God's Word today are sinners seeking not to be and we drag God into this conceptual placement which He 'IS' not
Hence point one in perspective from God's Word- God 'IS' Speaking from a place we have never known nor experienced... and
we should never draw it into a familiarity of self
Php 3:13-14

13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,

14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
KJV
we are to be perfect children of God without the resource from any and all of what we have first began in (the world and our self first born)...
 

Point two
God desires all men to be saved

2 Pe 3:9

9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
KJV
So that through the work of The Son God has enabled His righteousness to Speak into the unrighteous the Option of Life from death point two
and this work "IS' the total of His Love and Doing and is predicated upon nothing else but His Self...
These are the perspectives in total of God's Word written as thus

Mt 22:37-40

37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

38 This is the first and great commandment.

39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
KJV
and there is nothing you or I have been born into that can aid us in achieving this except Jesus The Christ...
Love, Steven

 

 

[angels4u]

 Sic, What can you do not to fall away?

How can you be good enough for God to keep you? 

I cannot do it on my own and I'm very interested to see how you can keep your self from not falling away without saving grace..

Would you go back to the cross and crucify Jesus again?

What if you fall away 6 times?

1 Peter 3:18:

For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit.