Commercial Babylon.

[Marilyn C]

16 hours ago, Spock said:

Very good question Marilyn,

honestly, I don't have a good answer. The only thing NYC has in the way of influence is political (UN), financial and cultural I suppose, but not a religious influence, unless satans throne has been moved to NYC from Babylon pursuant to Zechariah 5. 

Rev 17:18 does say the "woman you saw is the GREAT CITY that rules over the kings of the earth."  Could this be NYC because this is where the UN is housed? Does ruling over the Kings of the earth have to imply a RELIGIOUS influence rather than a political one? 

But your point is a good one that needs to be addressed:  Mystery Babylon the Great, the MOTHER OF PROSTITUTES...does this mean she holds a RELIGIOUS sway over the earth?  

However, If we agree the "woman" in chapter 17 is also a GREAT CITY, then I think the candidates have to be:

1. Rome

2. Ancient Babylon

3. Jerusalem

4. Mecca

5. NYC

Chapter 18 goes into a long description that to me best describe NYC.  But maybe before we move O to chapter 18, we need to fully develop your question, so why don't you explain why you believe this can't be NYC and why you believe what you believe again. Things get lost or confusing when you try to sort out all the threads. Thanks.

Hi Spock,

Have been really thinking on this one, as how best to explain how I see it. Now I am going to use the Amplified Bible for some contemporary language. Hope that`s OK. So here goes –

Woman on the Beast: - intimate connection.

`…I saw a woman seated on a scarlet beast…` (Rev. 17: 3)

`She with whom the rulers of the earth have joined in prostitution (idolatry) & with the wine of whose immorality (idolatry) the inhabitants of the earth have become intoxicated.` (Rev. 17: 2)

Woman, the great city: - Mighty Babylon.

`And the woman that you saw is herself the great city which dominates & controls the rulers & the leaders of the earth……Mighty Babylon.` (Rev. 17: 1,  & 18: 2)

 

This great city consists of –

1. An evil Philosophy – idolatry.

`For all nations have drunk the wine of her passionate unchastity, & the rulers & leaders  of the earth have joined with her in committing fornication (idolatry),..

 

2. Great Wealth – excessive luxury.

`..and the business men of the earth have become rich with the wealth of her excessive luxury & wantonness.` (Rev. 18: 3)

 

We see that the 10 kings & the A/C (beast leader) deal with the philosophy part of the great city, as the A/C desires all the glory to himself.

`…the 10 horns (kings) that you saw, they & the beast will (be the very ones to ) hate the harlot ( the idolatrous woman); they will make her cheerless (bereaved, desolate), & they  will strip her & eat up her flesh & utterly consume her with fire.` (Rev. 17: 16)

 

Then later we see that God Himself will deal with the riches of that city, that was accumulated by the evil philosophy.

`With such violence shall Babylon the great city be hurled down to destruction & shall never be found again…..for your business men were the great & prominent men of the earth, & by your magic, spells & poisonous charms all nations were led astray (seduced & deluded).` (Rev. 18:  21 & 23)

 

Marilyn.

 

Edited July 18, 2016 by Marilyn C

[Marilyn C]

Hi Spock,

Now to the Great Cities that you mentioned.

Jerusalem –  is protected by the Lord & not burned & destroyed.

`when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies…` (Luke 21: 20) 

`In that day the Lord will defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem.. ..I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.` (Zech. 12: 8 & 9)

 

Rome, Mecca, New York or Babylon.

Do any of those cities have a philosophy that all the nations are receiving? And what do you see is that philosophy?

 

Marilyn.

 

[Revelation Man]

11 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Spock,

Now to the Great Cities that you mentioned.

Jerusalem –  is protected by the Lord & not burned & destroyed.

`when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies…` (Luke 21: 20) 

`In that day the Lord will defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem.. ..I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.` (Zech. 12: 8 & 9)

 

Rome, Mecca, New York or Babylon.

Do any of those cities have a philosophy that all the nations are receiving? And what do you see is that philosophy?

 

Marilyn.

 

We are very close in our understandings here,, probably 90-95 percent. I just don't think it is one city, I think the philosophy you are speaking of is more in line with reality, because in days of old, Babylon, Rome and such, they worshiped all manner of gods/demons, now the philosophy is more akin to worshiping "Man" or self instead of idols. Anything that man decides is pure is the elitists new thoughts, be it homosexual marriage or any such thing they contrive in their hearts that makes them "feel good" like global warming or climate change etc. etc. It is all about a power grab, and restricting religious beliefs, because after all, they see us as backwards. 

 

And this philosophy, is going to be worldwide, it is the elitists thinking they know whats best for the common man type thinking. It will be Anti-God and pro-man, then the Anti-Christ steps forward and says, man is his own god, we need no gods, worship me as your deity (last part is conjecture of course). I also think the commerce will be worldwide, this is the way these guys are bringing us to a One World Gov. via trade pacts.

 

Well, anyway, that Philosophy angle made me thinK, this religion is really all about (666) Man.

 

GB

[Spock]

9 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Spock,

Now to the Great Cities that you mentioned.

Jerusalem –  is protected by the Lord & not burned & destroyed.

`when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies…` (Luke 21: 20) 

`In that day the Lord will defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem.. ..I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.` (Zech. 12: 8 & 9)

 

Rome, Mecca, New York or Babylon.

Do any of those cities have a philosophy that all the nations are receiving? And what do you see is that philosophy?

 

Marilyn.

 

Marilyn,

You said.....

1. An evil Philosophy – idolatry.

`For all nations have drunk the wine of her passionate unchastity, & the rulers & leaders  of the earth have joined with her in committing fornication (idolatry),..

Question:  why do you feel this Babylon philosophy that permeates the earth has to have the ancient city of Babylon as its source during these end times?  It seems to me satans throne can be moved throughout history and not be associated in one place- the place it began with Nimrod. 

It seems to me many nations are drinking the wine of unchastity that springs forth from NYC- media, government, financial, cultural, business, trade, you name it. 

I hate to be repetitious, but chapter 18 seems to fit NYC much more than inland Babylon. (I know you don't believe Babylon is inland, but to me, it sur seems to be.) 

[Spock]

9 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

We are very close in our understandings here,, probably 90-95 percent. I just don't think it is one city, I think the philosophy you are speaking of is more in line with reality, because in days of old, Babylon, Rome and such, they worshiped all manner of gods/demons, now the philosophy is more akin to worshiping "Man" or self instead of idols. Anything that man decides is pure is the elitists new thoughts, be it homosexual marriage or any such thing they contrive in their hearts that makes them "feel good" like global warming or climate change etc. etc. It is all about a power grab, and restricting religious beliefs, because after all, they see us as backwards. 

 

And this philosophy, is going to be worldwide, it is the elitists thinking they know whats best for the common man type thinking. It will be Anti-God and pro-man, then the Anti-Christ steps forward and says, man is his own god, we need no gods, worship me as your deity (last part is conjecture of course). I also think the commerce will be worldwide, this is the way these guys are bringing us to a One World Gov. via trade pacts.

 

Well, anyway, that Philosophy angle made me thinK, this religion is really all about (666) Man.

 

GB

This is logical! 

Spock

[Spock]

On July 17, 2016 at 11:01 AM, Revelation Man said:

REPLIED TO HE WRONG POST HERE..........Was Replying to Last Daze.....Sorry.

"She" is the doctrine of demons that influences mankind to live ungodly and rebellious lives.  She will be cast down at the return of Jesus.

Babylon can also refer to a city that epitomizes such doctrine.

 

My point was, SHE is the prostitute, or Great Harlot. She is not referred to by God as Babylon. The Judgment is against the Harlot, not against anything called Mystery  Babylon.  These are only descriptions of the Harlot. Rev. 17:1 says come see the judgment of the Harlot. 

The Woman (Harlot)  = Mystery Babylon the great, the mother of prostitutes.

Mystery Babylon cannot = ancient Babylon.  No MYSTERY there. 

Who will cast the Harlot down?  God or the Beast? 

The Harlot rides the Beast, and then the Beast with the 10 horns has had enough of her and will bring her to ruin and leave her naked and burn her with fire. (Rev 17:16)

i think 9/11 may have been a preview of something much worse that will happen to Manhattan. 

Dont forget Rev Man- "the woman you saw is the GREAT CITY that rules over the Kings of the Earth."

What city rules over the Kings of the Earth?  (For some reason, you seem to avoid this verse like the plague. How come?) 

[Revelation Man]

1 hour ago, Spock said:

The Woman (Harlot)  = Mystery Babylon the great, the mother of prostitutes.

Mystery Babylon cannot = ancient Babylon.  No MYSTERY there. 

Who will cast the Harlot down?  God or the Beast? 

The Harlot rides the Beast, and then the Beast with the 10 horns has had enough of her and will bring her to ruin and leave her naked and burn her with fire. (Rev 17:16)

i think 9/11 may have been a preview of something much worse that will happen to Manhattan. 

Dont forget Rev Man- "the woman you saw is the GREAT CITY that rules over the Kings of the Earth."

What city rules over the Kings of the Earth?  (For some reason, you seem to avoid this verse like the plague. How come?) 

Not at all, I must not be stating my belief very well, or going to long and it gets lost in the shuffle. Read Rev. 17 as a vision about this harlot, then the vision ends at verse 17, and the Angel then tells John in verse 18, this woman you saw John, (idolatry/False Religion) is the Great City that rules over Kings, (Rome) at your present time, that is where she is more or less headquartered. Whereas Babylon was her Mother, her birth place, it is now Rome that is consumed by idolatry and false religion John. So the Angel, having told John she was a Mystery (secret by silence) and Babylon, did not want John to be confused, so the Angel told him where she resided during his life, because after all, Babylon was no more, she was destroyed forever more as per a true city. This Harlot is destroyed in verse 16. God exacts revenge on idolatry and false religion, He hates it. 

This also fits with her being on many waters and......Rev. 17:15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues. Only false religion/idolatry can be in every nation, tongue etc. No city can cover this. The cities are metaphors of where she came from. One more clue, the Kings have drank of the wine of her wrath, and did so from a golden cup. In the new testament, the "new wine" was the Holy Spirit. And Jesus said drink this in remembrance of me. Notice this did not say the kings drank of her wine, but rather of the wine of her wrath (against the Saints, she hates the Saints) So these Kings via False Religion, have slain the real Saints of God. 

 

GB

[Marilyn C]

15 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

We are very close in our understandings here,, probably 90-95 percent. I just don't think it is one city, I think the philosophy you are speaking of is more in line with reality, because in days of old, Babylon, Rome and such, they worshiped all manner of gods/demons, now the philosophy is more akin to worshiping "Man" or self instead of idols. Anything that man decides is pure is the elitists new thoughts, be it homosexual marriage or any such thing they contrive in their hearts that makes them "feel good" like global warming or climate change etc. etc. It is all about a power grab, and restricting religious beliefs, because after all, they see us as backwards. 

 

And this philosophy, is going to be worldwide, it is the elitists thinking they know whats best for the common man type thinking. It will be Anti-God and pro-man, then the Anti-Christ steps forward and says, man is his own god, we need no gods, worship me as your deity (last part is conjecture of course). I also think the commerce will be worldwide, this is the way these guys are bringing us to a One World Gov. via trade pacts.

 

Well, anyway, that Philosophy angle made me thinK, this religion is really all about (666) Man.

 

GB

Hi Revelation Man,

Yes we believe that this philosophy will go world wide, however man does like to dominate & control through institutions. Thus I see that it will have a `headquarters.` And it is already here as Spock has gone on to describe.

Marilyn. 

[Marilyn C]

6 hours ago, Spock said:

Marilyn,

You said.....

1. An evil Philosophy – idolatry.

`For all nations have drunk the wine of her passionate unchastity, & the rulers & leaders  of the earth have joined with her in committing fornication (idolatry),..

Question:  why do you feel this Babylon philosophy that permeates the earth has to have the ancient city of Babylon as its source during these end times?  It seems to me satans throne can be moved throughout history and not be associated in one place- the place it began with Nimrod. 

It seems to me many nations are drinking the wine of unchastity that springs forth from NYC- media, government, financial, cultural, business, trade, you name it. 

I hate to be repetitious, but chapter 18 seems to fit NYC much more than inland Babylon. (I know you don't believe Babylon is inland, but to me, it sur seems to be.) 

Hi Spock,

I think you have misunderstood me. We actually believe the same that the institution that propagates this evil philosophy that is even now permeating the whole world, is centred in NYC. I believe it will get moved to Europe in the next couple of years & then when the final global leader arises he will move it to his territory in their capital - Babylon.

BTW Satan`s authority is everywhere & does not have a specific throne in one spot. `Throne` means authority, re Pergamos (Rev. 2: 13). Satan`s seat of power is in the principalities & powers realm in the universal area.

regards, Marilyn.

[Spock]

7 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Spock,

I think you have misunderstood me. We actually believe the same that the institution that propagates this evil philosophy that is even now permeating the whole world, is centred in NYC. I believe it will get moved to Europe in the next couple of years & then when the final global leader arises he will move it to his territory in their capital - Babylon.

BTW Satan`s authority is everywhere & does not have a specific throne in one spot. `Throne` means authority, re Pergamos (Rev. 2: 13). Satan`s seat of power is in the principalities & powers realm in the universal area.

regards, Marilyn.

Oh, okay. Me bad. Sorry....... (Going to the corner) 

well, if I start seeing Babylon rebuilding I will pay more attention. I promise.