Behold Posted August 14, 2016 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 7 Topic Count: 87 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 3,795 Content Per Day: 1.34 Reputation: 6 Days Won: 3 Joined: 07/30/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted August 14, 2016 10 hours ago, BlueMinou said: Just to be clear, are we talking about those who abide, and continue to abide, in Jesus? No, we are not talking about that....You are. You have this idea that "abiding" (doing it yourself) keeps you saved, which is of course is denying that its Jesus who keeps you saved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ezra Posted August 14, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 134 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 8,142 Content Per Day: 2.35 Reputation: 6,612 Days Won: 20 Joined: 11/02/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted August 14, 2016 11 hours ago, BlueMinou said: My point is that 1 John 5:13 does not prove Eternal Security. It proves Eternal Security no better than an athiest using Isaiah 45:7 to prove that God is evil and is the creator of both moral evil and darkness. In the end people believe what the choose to believe, not what the evidence reveals, nor what is plainly stated in Scripture. So if you prefer to be insecure in your salvation then please enjoy it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Behold Posted August 14, 2016 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 7 Topic Count: 87 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 3,795 Content Per Day: 1.34 Reputation: 6 Days Won: 3 Joined: 07/30/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted August 14, 2016 10 hours ago, BlueMinou said: I still remain an evangelical protestant at the moment though. As soon as you can find a verse in the NT that says you can be "unborn again", let us know. Good luck with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne222 Posted August 14, 2016 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 32 Topic Count: 476 Topics Per Day: 0.17 Content Count: 6,559 Content Per Day: 2.28 Reputation: 7,638 Days Won: 9 Joined: 06/12/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted August 14, 2016 I think it's all based on the Lord's ability to hold someone. If the bible says he will keep us from falling and he is faitful then it's not my ability that I trust. Anywise I could never trust myself. Maybe five years from now I would change for the worst. He said he holds us in his hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Behold Posted August 14, 2016 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 7 Topic Count: 87 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 3,795 Content Per Day: 1.34 Reputation: 6 Days Won: 3 Joined: 07/30/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted August 14, 2016 1 hour ago, Wayne222 said: I think it's all based on the Lord's ability to hold someone. If the bible says he will keep us from falling and he is faitful then it's not my ability that I trust. Anywise I could never trust myself. Maybe five years from now I would change for the worst. He said he holds us in his hands. You cant be "unborn again". Salvation creates you to be a member of a heavenly family....and you cant end this BIRTH relationship by behavior anymore then you can stop being your mother's son by being a bad son or a good one. BIRTH= is what Salvation achieves, and you can take it back by being a horrible human being. You would just be a horrible SAVED human being, and millions are... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueMinou Posted August 14, 2016 Group: Junior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 88 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 89 Days Won: 1 Joined: 07/24/2016 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 14, 2016 16 hours ago, Ezra said: It is never a bad idea to stick to the tried and true Bible which has been around for over 400 years, and to memorize some key verses. Try it sometime. Even if Calvin had never existed, the Bible would continue to proclaim the eternal security of the believer. These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God. (1 John 5:13 KJV). The tried and true bible for centuries is the Latin Vulgate, long before the King James Version existed; The Douay-Rheims english bible existed before the King James Version. I still haven't heard from anyone my points I've brought up about how the Bible literally says God creates darkness and evil in response to you saying the bible literally says "ye may know." Shall we go by a literal reading of the bible in this context, or, shall we refer to an authority who can correctly interpret the text for us. What is you authority to interpret the text: The Bible alone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ezra Posted August 14, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 134 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 8,142 Content Per Day: 2.35 Reputation: 6,612 Days Won: 20 Joined: 11/02/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted August 14, 2016 6 minutes ago, BlueMinou said: I still haven't heard from anyone my points I've brought up about how the Bible literally says God creates darkness and evil in response to you saying the bible literally says "ye may know." Had you consulted Strong's Exhaustive Concordance, you would have discovered that the Hebrew word which was translated as "evil" actually means calamities. And God certainly creates all kinds of natural calamities. As to associating evil with God, please note (James 1:13; 1 John 1:5): Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:...This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueMinou Posted August 14, 2016 Group: Junior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 88 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 89 Days Won: 1 Joined: 07/24/2016 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 14, 2016 10 hours ago, Behold said: No, we are not talking about that....You are. You have this idea that "abiding" (doing it yourself) keeps you saved, which is of course is denying that its Jesus who keeps you saved. Jesus says in John 15:6-7, 9-10. "Abide in me." John says 1 John 2:6. "Abide in Him." Paul says to walk by the Spirit. This requires free will to co-operate with the Holy Spirit. Galatians 5:16. I sense that you have the notion that freely walking with the Holy Spirit and and willfully not gratifying the flesh somehow earns something. It doesn't. Actually, the scripture says that the soul that sins shall die (Ezekiel 18:20). Did God suddenly change his mind and say that the soul that sins shall not die? God says those who transgress against others break faith with him.(Numbers 5:6) Do you believe that you wouldn't be breaking faith with God by murdering someone, or committing adultery, or blaspheming the Lord? The tradition of men in Protestant circles says that one cannot break faith with God under the doctrine of Once Saved, Always Saved, yet Numbers 5:6 clearly says one who transgresses against another breaks faith with God. For we walk by faith(2 Corinthians 5:7) and are saved by faith(Ephesians 2:8), but not by faith alone. Luther added "alone" to the text of the verse Ephesians 5:7 in his translation of the Bible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Behold Posted August 14, 2016 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 7 Topic Count: 87 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 3,795 Content Per Day: 1.34 Reputation: 6 Days Won: 3 Joined: 07/30/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted August 14, 2016 15 minutes ago, BlueMinou said: Jesus says in John 15:6-7, 9-10. "Abide in me." John says 1 John 2:6. "Abide in Him." Paul says to walk by the Spirit. This requires free will to co-operate with the Holy Spirit. Galatians 5:16. I sense that you have the notion that freely walking with the Holy Spirit and and willfully not gratifying the flesh somehow earns something. You are obviously trusting in works (abiding) (enduring) (taking communion) (confession), as the way to keep yourself saved. Instead, trust in the one who died for you, put yourself in His Grace, as once you finally do that, you wont have to continue to both teach Galatians 1:8 "works" as salvation, as well as try to save yourself by y0ur works, which by the way, isnt possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueMinou Posted August 14, 2016 Group: Junior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 88 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 89 Days Won: 1 Joined: 07/24/2016 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 14, 2016 1 hour ago, Ezra said: Had you consulted Strong's Exhaustive Concordance, you would have discovered that the Hebrew word which was translated as "evil" actually means calamities. And God certainly creates all kinds of natural calamities. As to associating evil with God, please note (James 1:13; 1 John 1:5): Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:...This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. Ah, but I do know about Strong's---I have kjv with Strong on my iphone and used it frequently for years. I knew that the Isaiah 45:7 was referring to calamity and not moral evil. I'm glad that we can agree that we need an authority, something or someone to help us interpret scripture for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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