Hell's Population Crunch

[WebersHome]

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The ordeal that Christ endured on the cross was so brief that it looks like child's play in comparison to the misery of souls in hell. His suffering barely lasted six hours (Mark 15:25, Matt 27:46-50) not even one whole day. People in hell go day, after day, after day, after day, after day, infinitum.

 

Q: But if Christ suffered only six hours, how can he possibly atone for people facing an eternity in hell?

 

A: It wasn't his torture that atoned for humanity's sins; it was the loss of his life that did the trick. Christ didn't have to go to the flames himself in order to rescue people from flames; no, he only had to die in accordance with the law of sin and death.

 

● Rom 6:23 . .The wages of sin is death

 

Individual human lives are of such low value that the most that anybody could hope to die for is just one sin. In most cases; that leaves a pretty large balance to atone for. In contrast; the value of the life of God's son is such that his death can atone for an infinite number of everybody's sins.

 

● 1Pet 1:18-20 . . For you know that God paid a ransom to save you from the empty life you inherited from your ancestors. And the ransom he paid was not mere gold or silver. He paid for you with the precious lifeblood of Christ, the sinless, spotless Lamb of God.

 

Peter called the blood of Christ two things: a ransom and precious, meaning it's like rare jewels and metals; very pricey. Nobody else's life is nearly as valuable as Christ's life. Peter would never call regular human life rare and pricey. Ordinary human lives are wholesale: they're cheap as the grass (Isa 40:6-7, 1Pet 1:24) just a dime a dozen and quite useless for redemption purposes.

 

Christ's life is the only life God will accept for multiple sins: and the alternative is infinite punishment because no amount of limited punishment can ever equal the value of Christ's blood because not only is a life like Christ's rare, but his is the only one like it in existence. (cf. Rom 3:9-20, Heb 4:15, 1Pet 2:22, 1John 3:9)

 

Serial sinners are up a creek with no paddle because they have but two lives to forfeit for sin-- the life they have now, and the one they'll have later at their resurrection; but unfortunately, the first of those lives is ear-marked for Adam's sin so they can't use it to atone for any of their own sins. So when they're resurrected to stand trial at the Great White Throne event depicted at Rev 20:11-15; that'll be their last life because according to Dan 12:2 and John 5:28-29 there's only one resurrection allotted per person. And since the Bible's ratio is one life per one sin, then serial sinners will come up short and never have sufficient lives to atone for a lifetime's accumulation of sins.

 

The dungeons of hell can be compared to a debtor's prison.

 

● Matt 5:25-26 . .Come to terms quickly with your adversary before it is too late and you are dragged into court, handed over to an officer, and thrown in jail. I assure you that you won't be free again until you have paid the last penny.

 

The reason that hell is a debtor's prison is because the only payment for one's sins that God will accept is death. Well; it's death for each sin. So if somebody has say, 200 sins to answer for, they'll only be able to pay for one because according to Dan 12:2 & John 5:28-29 there is but one resurrection allotted per person; not 200.

 

If absolute justice could be satisfied with torture, then hell's inmates could look forward to a release date. But alas; such isn't to happen because the only "coinage" the Bible's God is in a position to accept in lieu of their own lives is His son's life.

 

Bottom line: Christ's crucifixion is the final option. Those who refuse to take advantage of it, will cross over to the other side in poverty; with literally no way in hell to pay their debts to the law of God; thus they'll be stuck there.

 

CRUNCH UPDATE: 56 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 3,125,360 new arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since Aug 4, 2016.

 

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[kwikphilly]

Blessings Webershome

   It's a little confusing for me personally to understand what your position is here,I'm not sure if you are saying hell is eternal punishment OR that there is a 'release date" ,,,,perhaps I am not yet awake enough this morning to read w4ith full comprehension-lol

   Anyway,Christ did experience being FORSAKEN,I believe that is the place of eternal torment whjich is out of the Presence of God,,,,so He did not just experience  that moment(which is also out of the bondage of TIME) as one individual but as every single individual that ever lived or has yet been born   ....He paid the price for "mankind",,,,,,,,I cannot see this as childs play or "barely" anything,I cannot even begin to imagine what HE endured                  Love,Kwik

[Hippie333]

So far all of his posts are copies of his posts from over a year ago on another site....

[WebersHome]

1 hour ago, kwikphilly said:

Blessings Webershome

   It's a little confusing for me personally to understand what your position is here,I'm not sure if you are saying hell is eternal punishment OR that there is a 'release date" ,,,,perhaps I am not yet awake enough this morning to read w4ith full comprehension-lol

   Anyway,Christ did experience being FORSAKEN,I believe that is the place of eternal torment whjich is out of the Presence of God,,,,so He did not just experience  that moment(which is also out of the bondage of TIME) as one individual but as every single individual that ever lived or has yet been born   ....He paid the price for "mankind",,,,,,,,I cannot see this as childs play or "barely" anything,I cannot even begin to imagine what HE endured                  Love,Kwik

 

Kwik, hello;

 

Thank you for the blessings and love.

 

Re: I'm not sure if you are saying hell is eternal punishment OR that there is a 'release date"

 

I do not believe there is a release date. If absolute justice could be satisfied with torture, then hell's inmates could look forward to a release date. But alas; such isn't to happen.

 

Re: Christ did experience being FORSAKEN, I believe that is the place of eternal torment which is out of the Presence of God

 

Did Christ go out of existence while he was forsaken? No.

 

So then I think we should expect that the lost won't go out of existence either though they be permanently forsaken. They will continue to exist somewhere: call it gehenna, call it hell, call it the lake of fire, call it hades, call it whatever; but for sure those forsaken of God will be quarantined in an honest to gosh penal colony populated with some very unhappy people.

 

Cliff

 

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Edited September 30, 2016 by WebersHome

[kwikphilly]

Blessings WebersHome

   Thanks for the clarification,I'm sure it was just too early in the day for me to get a good understanding ....prior to a little coffee & a whole lot of Jesus!!!

Yes,never out of EXISTENCE,I agree but out of the Presence of Almighty God,I also agree that one can call it what they may,,,,hell etc,,,,   Amen!

                                                                                                 Much love....to the Glory of God           Kwik

[WebersHome]

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Far from being immortal, the natural-born human soul is quite susceptible to termination.

 

● Matt 10:28 . . Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; but rather fear Him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

 

The koiné Greek word for "destroy" in that passage is apollumi (ap-ol'-loo-mee) which is a bit ambiguous.

 

Some construe apollumi to mean cessation of existence. But according to Isa 66:22-24 and Mark 9:47-48, bodies destroyed in hell won't cease to exist, but will be preserved as perpetual nourishment for a curious species of fire-proof worm. Seeing as how destroyed bodies will continue to exist, then there is a very high probability that destroyed souls will also continue to exist.

 

In other words: apollumi not only means to ruin beyond repair, but also to kill; for example:

 

Matt 2:13

Matt 12:14

Matt 26:52

Matt 27:20

Mark 9:22

Lk 6:9

Lk 11:51

Lk 15:17

Lk 17:27

John 10:28

John 18:14

1Cor 10:9-10

2Pet 3:6

Jude 1:5

 

Q: Are dead human souls sentient?

 

A: Well; I've been with dead human bodies so I know for myself that dead human bodies are not sentient. But I have never been with a dead human soul so I have no personal experience to draw upon in that connection.

 

However, human life consists of more than body and soul. According to Gen 2:7, 1Ths 5:23, Heb 4:12, Heb 12:23, and 1Pet 3:18-20; human life also consists of spirit; which is transferrable.

 

For example, the rich man of Luke 16:19-31 is depicted with a tongue and a memory. Well; his physical tongue and mind were left behind on earth when he died. But there he is with a tongue and a mind in the afterlife; and not only that, but in the afterlife he retained his identity; which says to me that when the rich man's physical body passed away, his spirit was transferred to some sort of afterlife body. The only clue I have as to the nature of the rich man's afterlife body is 1Pet 3:18-20 where deceased antediluvians are described as spirit beings.

 

Apparently spirit beings cannot be destroyed by the fires of hell. I know that's true because the Devil is a spirit being, and according to Rev 20:10; he will be incarcerated in the reservoir of brimstone, not to die, but so suffer-- forever and ever. Quite a number of people are destined for that very same fate.

 

● Matt 25:41 . . He will also say to those on the left hand: Depart from me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

 

CRUNCH UPDATE: 59 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 3,292,790 new arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since Aug 4, 2016.

 

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[Dennis1209]

Some of the comments and questions on this thread seem to center on what is known as 'the age of accountability'. 

That's a very interesting question and I can find no place in the Bible that directly answers that question. I have always 'assumed' babies and children that passed away before they were capable of understanding and accepting or rejecting the Gospel went to Heaven, by reason of innocence and understanding. From various scriptures this is the view I hold.

The attached link summarizes my view better than I can if you would like to review it HERE.

[WebersHome]

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The feral man of Mark 5:1-13 and Luke 8:26-33 was possessed by a community of evil spirits who labeled themselves Legion. Webster's defines a legion as the principal unit of the Roman army comprising 3,000 to 6,000 foot soldiers with cavalry. The spirits that Christ exorcised from the man went out and possessed a herd of about 2,000 swine, so that's a pretty good example of how spirits take up no room in the physical world; nor do they crowd each other. All 3,000-6,000 of those spirits managed to fit inside the bodily cargo area of just that one man.

 

Just exactly how big demons are can't be known for certain. They could be no bigger than a moth; or even as large as the Jolly Green Giant-- but the point is, spirits take up no room in the physical world.

 

According to 1Pet 3:18-20, people are interred in hades as spirits; which tells me that hades need not be a void. To begin with: hades is a spirit world; and as such people can exist down there in solid rock because spirits don't need space, they just need a place.

 

CRUNCH UPDATE: 61 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 3,404,410 new arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since Aug 4, 2016.

 

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[WebersHome]

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Q: Do you not know it is the kindness of God that leads men to repentance rather than threats of justice? (Rom 2:4)

 

A: If the Bible's God weren't so kind, then He wouldn't bother with giving His creatures advance notice of the horror in store for them in the afterlife.

 

● Luke 12:4-5 . . And I say unto you my friends; Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do. But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear Him, which after He hath killed hath power to cast into Hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear Him.

 

Was Christ wrong to instill a fear of God within people's hearts? No; I think he was 110% justified. For example: when I was working as a professional welder for the US Army Corps of Engineers, we had weekly and monthly safety meetings wherein we were shown some grisly photographs of real life industrial accidents involving burns, chain saws, punctured eyes, explosions, falls, crane collapses, suffocation, crushing, and the like. Let me tell you something: those safety meetings got our attention, and really made a sharp distinction between the fool and the wise.

 

● Prv 22:3 . . A prudent person foresees the danger ahead and takes precautions; the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences.

 

The kindness of God has given the world fair and adequate notice of what to expect in the afterlife. Those who don't care about it one way or the other would be well advised to use what time they have remaining to begin preparing themselves for the worst when they cross over to the other side.

 

CRUNCH UPDATE: 63 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 3,516,030 new arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since Aug 4, 2016.

 

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[WebersHome]

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Q: According to the Christians; it is a "must" to believe the Gospel in order to be spared the wrath of God. How is that fair for peoples of the world who were never afforded an opportunity to hear it?

 

A: There's a universal gospel called the everlasting gospel; which reads like this:

 

● Rev 14:6-7 . . And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, announcing with a loud voice: Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

 

The everlasting gospel is very simple. Pretty much all it says is (1) there's a supreme being, 2) give Him glory worship, 3) the cosmos-- all of its forms of life, matter, and energy --is the product of intelligent design, 4) be afraid, and 5) there's a reckoning looming on the horizon.

 

Giving "glory" to God simply indicates giving someone credit where credit is due; and "worship" basically just simply means admiration.

 

It's quite natural to admire celebrities, pro athletes, and super achievers; and to give them credit where credit is due; but not quite so natural to do the same for their creator, Anyway, point being: the world either believes in intelligent design, or it doesn't. If they do believe, then they will admire both the originator's genius and His handiwork. If they don't believe; they won't admire either. Simple as that.

 

The everlasting gospel is interesting in that it isn't preached by humans; rather, it's preached by nature itself whose pulpit is everywhere, and speaks its message in every language known to man.

 

● Ps 19:1-4 . .The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands. Day after day they pour forth speech; night after night they display knowledge. There is no speech or language where their voice is not heard. Their voice goes out into all the earth, their words to the ends of the world.

 

God allows no excuse for disbelieving the everlasting gospel.

 

● Rom 1:18-21 . .The wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness; because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse.

 

It's humorous that when Europeans began invading the lands of North America's native peoples, they thought it prudent to convert them to Christianity. I really have to laugh at that because many of the peoples whom the Europeans labeled "wild men" were already believing the everlasting gospel centuries before the Europeans even dared to attempt crossing the Atlantic ocean.

 

Can belief in the everlasting gospel save wild men? Of course it can or why would the angel of Rev 14:6-7 bother to fly around the world heralding it? I'll tell you one thing: there is far more hope for a pre-Columbus Iroquois than there is for a space-age atheist familiar with the book of Genesis, and heard the gospel of Christ as per Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John and brushed it all off as musty old myths and fantasy underserving of their attention.

 

CRUNCH UPDATE: 65 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 3,627,650 new arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since Aug 4, 2016.

 

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