sabbath day

[coheir]

1 hour ago, WailingWall said:

ACTS 15 [17] That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things. [18] Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world. [19] Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among THE GENTILES are turned to God: [20] But that we write unto them, that THEY ABSTAIN FROM POLLUTIONS OF IDOLS, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood. [21] For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

ACTS 15 as a whole was speaking as to whether gentiles needed to be circumcized or not.

ACTS 15 [4] And when they were come to Jerusalem, they were received of the church, and of the apostles and elders, and they declared all things that God had done with them. [5] But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That IT WAS NEEDFUL TO CIRCUMCISE THEM, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.

ACTS 15 [24] Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, YE MUST BE CIRCUMCISED, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:

Nothing to do with the 10 commandments. So lets look into what pollution of idols {V 20} is all about. Its there we find that we are to be keeping Gods sabbath day.

LEVITICUS 19 [3] Ye shall fear every man his mother, and his father, and KEEP MY SABBATHS: I am the Lord your God. [4] TURN YE NOT UNTO IDOLS, NOR MAKE TO YOURSELVES MOLTEN GODS: I am the Lord your God.

LEVITICUS 26 [1]Ye shall MAKE YOU NO IDOLS NOR GRAVEN IMAGE, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up any image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I am the Lord your God. [2] YE SHALL KEEP MY SABBATHS, and reverence my sanctuary: I am the Lord.

EZEKIEL 20 [16]Because they despised my judgments, and walked not in my statutes, BUT POLLUTED MY SABBATHS: FOR THEIR HEART WENT AFTER THEIR IDOLS.

I don’t know what the connection might be as to why graven images and idols are a sign that you don’t keep Gods sabbath but if the WORD says so I believe it. We could have a debate on what an idol is but that would go nowhere but in circles. Does your church have any standing images? I know the churches that do keep the sabbath don’t have any standing images or crosses.

 

Acts 15:24 clearly states we do not, as Christians, keep the law of which the Sabbath is part of; one must keep all the law. you are missing the point of a New Covenant. you keep trying to bring up OT verses that only applied to old covenant and are trying to apply them to the new covenant. I just flat do not agree with you.

[WailingWall]

1 hour ago, coheir said:

Acts 15:24 clearly states we do not, as Christians, keep the law of which the Sabbath is part of;

ACTS 15 [24] Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, YE MUST BE CIRCUMCISED, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:

Does not say the law in whole. Its specificly speaking of the law of circumcision. Its right there for all to read. Nowhere do you see the sabbath mention

1 COR. 7 [19] Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

Now, the law of circumcision need not be kept, but Gods law (the 10 commandments) are to be kept {According to Paul}.

[WailingWall]

1 hour ago, coheir said:

 you keep trying to bring up OT verses that only applied to old covenant and are trying to apply them to the new covenant. I just flat do not agree with you.

Nor do you agree with Jesus

John 5:45-47 (KJV)
45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.
46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.
47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

[WailingWall]

2 hours ago, coheir said:

 you are missing the point of a New Covenant.

I understand the point of the new covenant

ZECH.9 [9] Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass.[10] And I will cut off the chariot from Ephraim, and the horse from Jerusalem, and the battle bow shall be cut off: and he shall speak peace unto the heathen: and his dominion shall be from sea even to sea, and from river even to the ends of the earth.[11] As for thee also, BY THE BLOOD OF THY COVENANT I have sent forth thy prisoners out of the pit wherein is no water

Verse 9 definately prophecies of the coming Jesus. Verse 11, Jesus is called the blood of thy covenant. Zech.9....One of them old testament scriptures you want to ignore

HEBREWS 12 [23] To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,[24] And to Jesus THE MEDIATOR OF THE NEW COVENANT, AND TO THE BLOOD of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

New covenant...blood

LUKE 22 [19] And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me. [20] Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, THIS CUP IS THE NEW TESTAMENT IN MY BLOOD, which is shed for you.

New testament...blood

HEBREWS 9 [1] Then verily THE FIRST COVENANT HAD ALSO ORDINANCES of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary...... [9] Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;[10] WHICH STOOD ONLY IN MEATS AND DRINKS, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.[12] NEITHER BY THE BLOOD OF GOATS AND CALVES, BUT BY HIS OWN BLOOD he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

old covenant...blood of goats

HEBREWS 10 [1] For THE LAW HAVING A SHADOW of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.[2] For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.[3] But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.[4] FOR IT IS NOT POSSIBLE THAT THE BLOOD OF BULLS AND OF GOATS SHOULD TAKE AWAY SINS.[5] Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:[6] In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.[7] Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.[8] Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;[9] Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. HE TAKETH AWAY THE FIRST, THAT HE MAY ESTABLISH THE SECOND.

old testament...blood of bulls and goats; the shadow of Christ

He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

JOHN 6 [53] Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. [54] Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. [55] For MY FLESH IS MEAT INDEED, and MY BLOOD IS DRINK INDEED.

And theres the 2nd

[coheir]

1 hour ago, WailingWall said:

and keep the law

 

[Remnantrob]

Hey Shiloh,

 

I've been looking back at your post from back in the day to see if your position has remained the same on the subject of the Sabbath.  I hope this doesn't make you think that I'm stalking you(even though I just might be...lol)  I'm wondering how you go from posts like these:

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If the Shabbat is the Shabbat, then there is no reason to choose to treat another day as the Shabbat. It is like saying that what God has chosen is not good enough for us. Being Jewish or Gentile is irrelevent. The Sabbath is not Jewish, because it finds its origin with God, not the Jewish people. It has a distinctive Jewish flavor, because the Jews have been the primary observers of the custom. When one reads the Torah though, it is clear that God expected them to take His commandments to the rest of the world. The Sabbath is not antagonistic to "keeping the bond of unity." The problem with unity is the fault of the those who rebel agianst God's commandments, not with those who seek to oberserve and keep those commandments. It is those who hate the Sabbath, and try to claim it is abrogated that are causing the strife.

There is a false assummption that God does not care about his ordinances, and that He is not concerned with how they are kept. That is completely contrary to how He has revealed himself in Scripture.

 

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Actually, it was the Gnostics historically who were judging for keeping the Sabbath. Christians observed the Sabbath until 4th century. It was outlawed under Constantine at the councile Nicea around 300 A.D. It is 1700 years of Western Christian bias that ASSUMES it was the Jews. History says otherwise. Actually he would not have needed to since they already were, AND because the only Scriptures available at that time was the OT and the only Sabbath one can find in OT was God's Sabbath.

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First of all, the Bible gives only ONE definition concerning the literal observance of the Sabbath day. It is the Seventh day of the week. God does not offer man an alternative Sabbath day. Why do you refer to Sunday as the "Lord's Day?" There is not one place in Scripture where it is referred to as such. Christianity has assumed that the reference to the Lord's Day in Revelation is Sunday. You mentioned those who keep Sunday as "their Sabbath." I must make the point, that while you can celebrate any day as "your" Sabbath, "your" Sabbath does not replace God's Sabbath.

 to  these:

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But the others commandments were being observed, but were mentioned as commandments to the Church.   So to say that the Sabbath didnt need to be mentioned because it was still being observed by church, doesn't hold water.

We have evidence from the early 2nd century that believers had long been observing the first day of the week.

 

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Actually goes back the first apostles.  We know that from the Didache which asserts that first century Christians met congregationally on Sunday.

I hope I'm not taking your quotes out of context.  I'm not implying that you've completely changed your views because you repeat the same things that Jesus is our sabbath back then but you  also seem to believe that although the Christian wasn't required to keep the sabbath in the NT that it wasn't changed and it's God's holy day and there seems to have been more of a defense than a condemnation if you chose to keep it as a gentile.  Was there an epiphany ?  Just curious.

[WailingWall]

On 11/7/2016 at 11:46 AM, GoldenEagle said:

@brakelite & @shiloh357

Sabbath day keeping is a non-essential to the faith in Jesus Christ.

 

Not so

GALATIANS 3 [23] But BEFORE FAITH CAME, WE WERE KEPT UNDER THE LAW, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. [24] WHEREFORE THE LAW WAS OUR SCHOOLMASTER TO BRING US UNTO CHRIST, THAT WE MIGHT BE JUSTIFIED BY FAITH. [25] But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. [26] For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus

Before faith came to each and everyone of us, we are under the law {the 10 commandments, the schoolmaster}. So, according to this scripture you are kept under the law of the 10 commandments (the schoolmaster) until you are justified by faith in Christ. No shortcuts. Then there is no condemnation. After we have been brought to faith in Christ, do we then make void the law or are we to still be keeping Gods law?

ROMANS 3 [30] Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith. [31] DO WE THEN MAKE VOID THE LAW THROUGH FAITH? GOD FORBID: yea, we establish the law.

Just because we have attained faith through the Word are we now to “do away” with Gods 10 commandments? GOD FORBID!

REV. 14 [12] Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS of God, and THE FAITH OF JESUS.

Faith and the commandments. “Many” will say that you cant mix faith and the law. Show them Rev.14

 

[Guest shiloh357]

2 hours ago, Remnantrob said:

Hey Shiloh,

 

I've been looking back at your post from back in the day to see if your position has remained the same on the subject of the Sabbath.  I hope this doesn't make you think that I'm stalking you(even though I just might be...lol)  I'm wondering how you go from posts like these:

 to  these:

I hope I'm not taking your quotes out of context.  I'm not implying that you've completely changed your views because you repeat the same things that Jesus is our sabbath back then but you  also seem to believe that although the Christian wasn't required to keep the sabbath in the NT that it wasn't changed and it's God's holy day and there seems to have been more of a defense than a condemnation if you chose to keep it as a gentile.  Was there an epiphany ?  Just curious.

My position has changed.  And not just on the Sabbath.   You can go back and see how over time (13 years on this board), my positions on a number of subjects have changed in certain ways the more I have learned and matured.

Some things about my position have never changed. I have never condemned Sabbath observance and I am not anti-Sabbath now.   But I have ALWAYS  been against the notion that the Sabbath is in anyway linked to salvation.   I have never held the position that if you are a believer it will be evidenced by keeping the Sabbath.  I have never disparaged those who do not keep the Sabbath.   Nor, have I disparaged those who do.    But, it is not an obligation placed by God on the Church. 

You have tried to dance around the obligation issue, but it is clear that to the SDA, the Sabbath is required for salvation on the grounds that it is seen as an evidence of genuine faith, implying that that those who claim to be Christians, but don't keep the Sabbath are not really believers.

[Guest shiloh357]

1 hour ago, WailingWall said:

Not so

GALATIANS 3 [23] But BEFORE FAITH CAME, WE WERE KEPT UNDER THE LAW, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. [24] WHEREFORE THE LAW WAS OUR SCHOOLMASTER TO BRING US UNTO CHRIST, THAT WE MIGHT BE JUSTIFIED BY FAITH. [25] But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. [26] For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus

Before faith came to each and everyone of us, we are under the law {the 10 commandments, the schoolmaster}. So, according to this scripture you are kept under the law of the 10 commandments (the schoolmaster) until you are justified by faith in Christ. No shortcuts. Then there is no condemnation. After we have been brought to faith in Christ, do we then make void the law or are we to still be keeping Gods law?

ROMANS 3 [30] Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith. [31] DO WE THEN MAKE VOID THE LAW THROUGH FAITH? GOD FORBID: yea, we establish the law.

Just because we have attained faith through the Word are we now to “do away” with Gods 10 commandments? GOD FORBID!

REV. 14 [12] Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS of God, and THE FAITH OF JESUS.

Faith and the commandments. “Many” will say that you cant mix faith and the law. Show them Rev.14

 

No one is talking about doing away with God's commandments.  The issue is what role  those commandments play in salvation.    If the 10 commandments are required for salvation, then Jesus' death on the cross was meaningless.   If that is the argument, that the 10 commandments are obligatory for salvation, either its procurement or its maintenance, then you are promoting salvation by works and making man the Savior, not Jesus.  Man suddenly, must keep himself saved, thus taking glory away from God for salvation.

And that is anathema.

[WailingWall]

2 hours ago, shiloh357 said:

No one is talking about doing away with God's commandments.  The issue is what role  those commandments play in salvation.  

EPH.2  [5] Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)[6] And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:[7] That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.[8] FOR BY GRACE ARE YE SAVED THROUGH FAITH; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:[9] Not of works, lest any man should boast. [10] For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which GOD HATH BEFORE ORDAINED THAT WE SHOULD WALK IN THEM.

It is by the grace of God that we are saved. Period. It is a free gift. But to whom is this free gift given? Verse 10 says that those people who will receive the free gift of grace will be walking in good works. What are these good works which GOD HATH BEFORE ORDAINED that "we must walk in"?

2 JOHN 1 [4] I rejoiced greatly that I found of thy children walking in truth, as we have received a commandment from the Father. [5] And now I beseech thee, lady, not as though I wrote a new commandment unto thee, but that which we had from the beginning, that we love one another. [6] And this is love, that WE WALK AFTER HIS COMMANDMENTS. This is the commandment, That, AS YE HAVE HEARD FROM THE BEGINNING, YE SHOULD WALK IN IT.

Youve heard it from the beginning {before ordained}. Its the 10 commandments that we should walk in. But we will fall short. We will sin. No one but Jesus has kept the 10 commandments perfectly.

PSALM 78  [1] Give ear, O my people, to my law: incline your ears to the words of my mouth.[2] I WILL OPEN MY MOUTH IN A PARABLE: I will utter dark sayings of old:[3] Which we have heard and known, and our fathers have told us.[4] We will not hide them from their children, shewing to the generation to come the praises of the LORD, and his strength, and his wonderful works that he hath done.[5] FOR HE ESTABLISHED A TESTIMONY IN JACOB, AND APPOINTED A LAW IN ISRAEL, WHICH HE COMMANDED OUR FATHERS, that they should make them known to their children:[6] That the generation to come might know them, even the children which should be born; who should arise and declare them to their children:[7] That they might set their hope in God, AND NOT FORGET THE WORKS OF GOD, BUT KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS:[8] And might not be as their fathers, a stubborn and rebellious generation; a generation that set not their heart aright, and whose spirit was not stedfast with God.[9] The children of Ephraim, being armed, and carrying bows, turned back in the day of battle.[10] THEY KEPT NOT THE COVENANT OF GOD, AND REFUSED TO WALK IN HIS LAW;[11] AND FORGAT HIS WORKS, and his wonders that he had shewed them.

We all know who opened his mouth in parables and who established a testimony in Jacob. Yup, its JESUS CHRIST. So according to Eph.2 Gods people who recieve the free gift of grace, will be walking in the “WORKS” that God ordained {verse 7}. But...verse 9 and 10 prophecies of what will happen to the “many”, because they refuse to walk after the 10 commandments.

TITUS 1 [14] Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.[15] Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.[16] THEY PROFESS THAT THEY KNOW GOD; BUT IN WORKS THEY DENY HIM, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

Jim Jones – The cool-aid kid

A Hitler – wanted to be a priest

D Koresh- Youve heard of him

Are they all saved?