The true Church of Christ

[HAZARD]

20 minutes ago, Judas Machabeus said:

The Church Jesus founded was not just a spiritual Church. You laid out yourself how the Church also has a physical and heiarchial comportent. 

I agree that as believers we make up the body of Christ. That's why you can ask those in heaven to pray for you. Because they too are part of the body of Christ. 

What i am asking is where is that visible Church which Christ founded and the aposltes built up.

I never laid anything out, its all there in the Bible if you care to look for yourself. Took me many hours to find all the scriptures provided, and you could not possibly have read and checked them all in 3 or 4 minutes and yet came to your conclusion. Maybe if you read the many Scriptures provided you might see the truth and stop asking silly questions. Pray all you like to the dead and you are wasting your time. The only prayers heard in Heaven are those directed to the Father In the Name of Jesus. I can assure you its not the rcc.

[woundeddog]

27 minutes ago, Judas Machabeus said:

There are thousand of bible only Churches that teach different things yet are believers. There can only be one truth.

I work in a non-denominational ministry-- we have saints from many different church groups- but we have one thing in common and that is Justification by faith alone in Jesus shed blood-- we may disagree on the rapture,- tounges, sign gifts- music, church structure- but the one thing we have in common is what makes us the church- "Jesus died for me cause I was a sinner- his blood paid the price for my sin, I believe it cause God said it" that is the church-- some of our churches do have deacons- and bishops- some don't- but we are untied by faith in the blood. Personally- my church has no deacons because we have no men that qualify- but we do have trustees- the central core to the church is "Justification by faith alone"-- that is the true church and where true saints come form

 

[OneLight]

We are the true church, we being those who are true Christians.  What would I say is a true church?

Read what is said in 1 Corinthians 12:12-31

¹² For as the body is one and has many members, but all the members of that one body, being many, are one body, so also is Christ. ¹³ For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit. ¹⁴ For in fact the body is not one member but many.

¹⁵ If the foot should say, “Because I am not a hand, I am not of the body,” is it therefore not of the body? ¹⁶ And if the ear should say, “Because I am not an eye, I am not of the body,” is it therefore not of the body? ¹⁷ If the whole body were an eye, where would be the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where would be the smelling? ¹⁸ But now God has set the members, each one of them, in the body just as He pleased. ¹⁹ And if they were all one member, where would the body be?

²⁰ But now indeed there are many members, yet one body. ²¹ And the eye cannot say to the hand, “I have no need of you”; nor again the head to the feet, “I have no need of you.” ²² No, much rather, those members of the body which seem to be weaker are necessary. ²³ And those members of the body which we think to be less honorable, on these we bestow greater honor; and our unpresentable parts have greater modesty, ²⁴ but our presentable parts have no need. But God composed the body, having given greater honor to that part which lacks it, ²⁵ that there should be no schism in the body, but that the members should have the same care for one another. ²⁶ And if one member suffers, all the members suffer with it; or if one member is honored, all the members rejoice with it.

²⁷ Now you are the body of Christ, and members individually. ²⁸ And God has appointed these in the church: first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, varieties of tongues. ²⁹ Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Are all workers of miracles? ³⁰ Do all have gifts of healings? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret? ³¹ But earnestly desire the best^[d] gifts. And yet I show you a more excellent way.

Who has divided the true church in different denominations?  Those whom we wrestle with daily, and it is not flesh and blood.  We are warned against this division, and Paul gives an excellent example.

1 Corinthians 1:10-13

¹⁰ Now I plead with you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment. ¹¹ For it has been declared to me concerning you, my brethren, by those of Chloe’s household, that there are contentions among you. ¹² Now I say this, that each of you says, “I am of Paul,” or “I am of Apollos,” or “I am of Cephas,” or “I am of Christ.” ¹³ Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?

If we all believe in, and follow Christ, we are in the process of being changed to reflect our Savior.  The result is a growing body in unity.

Who is it that has divided His church?  Hmmm .......

[seeking the lost]

6 hours ago, Judas Machabeus said:

Jesus founded a Church, the apostles established and built up visible Churches with a visible heiarchy. 

This Sunday, I want to go to that Church. Which Church do I go to?

I can not name the name of the church that you should go to but as you go here are some things that you might look for.

Revelation 2King James Version (KJV)

2 Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks;

1) There should be an awareness of the one who is walking in the midst of the candlesticks.

2)There should be a candlestick present.

This candlestick represents light and illumination.  When the candlestick is present there is revelation and insight into the mysteries of God.

The candlestick remains at the pleasure and by the will of God.

4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.

5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

This Church will have and maintain first love.  Without this maintenance Jesus will come and remove the candlestick.

Jesus has  Thief in the Night Industries, doing business as Lampstand Removal Services.  In many places that call themselves church there lampstand is gone and they do not even know it.  They are satisfied with a representation of a candlestick/lampstand.   

[Hoddie]

Found this article that I feel fits this thread to a tee.

5 Reasons the Catholic Church is the True Church: By Amelia Monroe Carlson.

There are many reasons the Roman Catholic Church is the true Church of Jesus Christ, however, some of those reasons are necessary for discussions with those outside the Catholic Church. Jesus prayed for unity of believers and unity begins with understanding. The understanding of the Church’s beliefs is essential in working toward that unity. Here are some key reasons to keep in mind when speaking to non-Catholics:

1.) Authority- Jesus gave specific instructions regarding dealing with members of the Church who were in sin. Matthew 18:15-18 says "If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have won over your brother. If he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, so that ‘every fact may be established on the testimony of two or three witnesses.’ If he refuses to listen to them, tell the church. If he refuses to listen even to the church, then treat him as you would a Gentile or a tax collector. Amen, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven." What Evangelical/Protestant Church has the authority to remove someone completely from the church? None. If an individual is removed from a ‘congregation’ then he/she can go down the street and join another ‘congregation’ of the same denomination. The congregations are individualized and have no authority outside their own denomination. That is not true with the Catholic Church. If removed from the Catholic Church, one cannot go to another city and join another Catholic Parish.

2.) History- The Roman Catholic Church is the oldest and original Christian Church, therefore, the beliefs and teachings of the Church were directly passed onto the leaders of the Catholic Church by the apostles. The Catholic Church began with the teachings of Jesus Christ, around 1^{st Century AD in the province of Judea of the Roman Empire. The Catholic Church is the continuation of the early Christian community established by Jesus and no modern Christian Church can make that claim. By the end of the 2nd century, bishops began congregating in regional synods and to correct doctrinal and policy issues and by the time the 3rd century came around, the Bishop of Rome (Pope) served as the decisive authority, kind of like a court of appeals, for problems and issues the bishops could not resolve. This is identical to the Bible’s teaching. In Exodus 18 we see where the children of Israel brought their disputes to Moses and Moses settled those disputes. However, it also shows where leaders appointed by Moses also worked to settle disputes.}

^{The Catholic Church remained the only Christian Church until the East-West Schism of 1054, which caused medieval Christianity to split and become two separate branches. The greatest division, however, came during the Reformation from 1517-1648, led by Martin Luther. The East-West (Great) Schism was caused by Patriarch Michael I. According to Titus 3:9-11, the divisions led by Patriarch Michael I and Martin Luther were sin. "Avoid foolish arguments, genealogies, rivalries, and quarrels about the law, for they are useless and futile. After a first and second warning, break off contact with a heretic, realizing that such a person is perverted and sinful and stands self-condemned.."}

^Cont:

[Hoddie]

5 Reasons the Catholic Church is the True Church: By Amelia Monroe Carlson.-Cont:

3.) The Catholic Church gave Christians the Bible- The first official list of books contained is what is the Bible was done at the Council of Hippo in 393 and then again in Carthage in 397 and 419. However, the Council of Trent in 1556 was the first time the Church infallibly defined these books as ‘inspired’ because it was questioned by Reformers. We have to admit, the apostles did not walk around with nice leather bound Bibles in their hand. There are many parts of the Bible that are oral tradition which was written down because when early believers attended the Synagogue or church, the scripture was read. They did not have their own copy with their name engraved on the front. Oral tradition was the norm of practice long before writing and reading was a part of life. The Jews followed the Old Testament before Jesus was born and Jesus is pictured in Scripture reading from the Old Testament in the Synagogue. There were multiple writings from this time but it was only after the list of books determined to be the ‘inspired Word of God’ by the Catholic Church first with the Council of Hippo in 393 that the world had what is called "The Bible". The Bible remained the original 73 books determined by the Catholic Church until the Reformation, when Martin Luther threw out 7 books of the Old Testament that disagreed with his personal view of theology…the same Old Testament adhered to by the Jews. He threw these 6 books out in the 16^{th Century. Luther also attempted to throw out New Testament books James, Hebrews, Jude and Revelation. In referring to James, he said he wanted to ‘throw Jimmy into the fire’ and the book of James was ‘an epistle of straw’ with no usefulness. After Pope Damasus I approved the 27 New Testament Books however in 382 AD, Luther agreed with the Pope and accepted the New Testament books but denied the Old Testament books …which remained out of his Bible. Non-Catholics will accept the Biblical books which are contained in the Protestant Bible but do not acknowledge they are accepting and trusting the authority of the Catholic Church because the Catholic Church was the one who proclaimed the entire list, as a whole, as ‘inspired’. The letters within the Bible are not the only letters and materials written by the Apostles so, as a result, those contained within the Bible had to be declared ‘inspired’ and it was the Catholic Church which did that duty.}

^Cont:

[Hoddie]

5 Reasons the Catholic Church is the True Church: By Amelia Monroe Carlson.-Cont:

4.) The Sacraments are Biblical- The Apostles were given the power to ‘forgive sins’ in John 20:23, Peter taught in I Peter 3:21 that ‘baptism now saves you’, ‘anointing the sick with oil was shown in James 5:14-15, laying on of hands in Acts 8:17 and 2 Timothy 1:6, marriage in the Lord in I Corinthians 7:39 and Jesus stated numerous times that the disciples should participate in the breaking of bread (Eucharist) by stating ‘he who eats my flesh has eternal life’.

Cont:

[Hoddie]

5 Reasons the Catholic Church is the True Church: By Amelia Monroe Carlson.-Cont:

5.) Sola Scriptura is not supported in the Bible- It is difficult to make a claim such as Sola Scriptura (The Bible Alone) when, in its very essence, the claim must be written within the Bible in order to be Biblical. The concept of "Bible Alone" says it is not truth if it is not contained in the Bible, therefore removing ‘tradition’, but the Bible refutes that principle. Jeremiah 25:3 says the "Word of the Lord" is "spoken", not just written. Paul told us to hold to our traditions, which are taught by word and mouth or by letter, according to 2 Thess 2:15. The Bible also portrays where a Council was held to settle doctrinal disputes in Acts 15. (Who else has a Council to settle doctrine disputes and holds the authority to do such other than the Catholic Church?) The Bible also warns about ‘twisted’ interpretations of Scripture in 2 Peter 3:16 and I Timothy 3:15 says THE CHURCH is the pillar and the bulwark of the truth. The Catholic Church has one teaching…one unified teaching…as opposed to the now 43,000 evangelical (Protestant) groups currently established, with 2.3 added each day. Their views on everything from the Trinity, homosexuality, abortion, and salvation all contradict each other. Truth cannot be false at the same time and Truth cannot contradict each other.

 

Peace

[Ezra]

14 minutes ago, Hoddie said:

5 Reasons the Catholic Church is the True Church: By Amelia Monroe Carlson.-Cont:

Very lame. See Matthew 4:4.

[Hoddie]

1 hour ago, Ezra said:

Very lame. See Matthew 4:4.

Whats lame is your typical impotent responce.

And what is your personal interpretation of Matt. 4:4?

 

Peace