Russian Icons and Catholic Relics

[TheMatrixHasU71]

On ‎11‎/‎18‎/‎2016 at 9:46 AM, kwikphilly said:

Blessings Matrix,woundeddog

   Yes Brothers......I agree with both of you & no,we don't say anything contrary to Gods Word.....that is what separates us & we are UNITED by our Faith in the knowledge of WHO our Lord & Savoir is!!!!Glory and Praise to our Lord Jesus!

   I too,am a sucker for those "hard cases",especially having been raised & taught the teachings of the RCC for so many years.....so now what,how about we say a prayer for our Hoddie?Let us pray her heart is softened to Receive Gods Word & He continue to draw her unto Himself,in Jesus Name!

   And we shall go about our Fathers Business with Love,Patience,Wisdom & Understanding                          With love-in Christ,Kwik

 

Amen kwickie, sis, Praying for her now.

[kwikphilly]

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PS: I thank God, in Jesus Name, for your continued contribution here at Worthy.  Thank you sister-in-Christ.                                         SObG

I thank Him too, it's ALL Him.....Worthy was my  answered prayer at a time I was no longer able to GO into the world & preach the Gospel to every creature,I thought it was a temporary Ministry opportunity....little did I know the privilege that was given me,the Plan He had for me...

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King James Bible
Now unto Him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the Power that worketh in us,
Ephesians 3:20

God is so Good to us,Worthy is His Blessed Place,His Holy Place

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Amen kwickie, sis, Praying for her now.                                                                                         MatrixHasU

That is wonderful,love her to LIFE!!!!                                                                           With love-in Christ,Kwik    (Love you guys!!!!)

[TheMatrixHasU71]

On ‎11‎/‎17‎/‎2016 at 1:26 PM, Saved.One.by.Grace said:

This is from the website, Catholic Answers: Mary, Mother of Salvation

The double talk is amazing.

Regarding the last paragraph of the article you quoted....

There’s a memorable line in a movie where a boy is breaking up with a girl, and she feels used. She cries out, "I am not a tissue! You can’t just throw me away!" To have used Mary to accomplish the Incarnation and then forget about her is to treat her like a tissue. God doesn’t work like that. When Catholics recognize Mary as Mediatrix and Co-Redemptrix, we acknowledge that God’s work in a person’s life transforms them eternally. Mary was given a new name at the Annunciation: Full of Grace. The new name indicates an ontological change. She was changed into a new person with a new role forever.

I don't know why this guy thinks we are just throwing Mary away and forgetting about her. What a load of crap.....

But even Jesus said (though not with the same words) that we aren't to treat His earthly mother any differently than any others.

Matthew 12:46   While he yet talked to the people, behold, [his] mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him.

Matthew 12:47   Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee.

Matthew 12:48   But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?

Matthew 12:49   And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!

Matthew 12:50   For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

And when Catholics blasphemously call Mary Mediatrix and Co Redemptrix I'd like to know how they respond to ....

 

1 Timothy 2:5   For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

And Mary, the handmaid of the Lord, not Queen and "full of grace" (bad translation anyway) as if that set her on a higher plane than any others would never dare call herself by such evil titles.

 

Luke 1:47   And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.

Luke 1:48   For he hath regarded the low estate of his handmaiden: for, behold, from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed.

Sure she is blessed; but that doesn't in any way mean that she is Queen of Heaven, Mediatrix and all that other nonsense. Catholics are reading far too much into it.

 

 

[TheMatrixHasU71]

On ‎11‎/‎17‎/‎2016 at 11:44 AM, Hoddie said:

I'll let Grace D. MacKinnion from Catholic Onlie explain it:

"It is sad indeed that there exists so much misunderstanding regarding the love and reverence that Catholics and other Christians have for the Mother of Jesus. More than likely, the problem stems from the fact that the Blessed Virgin Mary is not regarded by some as a personal, spiritual mother. For it is only is recognizing her as our true Spiritual Mother that we will be lead to an authentic response to Mary.

When Catholics say, "Mary is our Mother," these are not just empty words. They mean rather that we recognize Mary for who she is and also for her role in the plan of God. That Mary was the mother of Jesus the God-Man is almost universally accepted among all Christians and probably many non-Christians as well. Therefore, in this small space, let us focus instead on her role in the life of the Church today. We will then be better able to explain why we love, revere, and honor her and also why we are thus lead to seek her intercession and protection.

Looking first at Scripture, the principal basis for the doctrine of Mary as Spiritual Mother of all humanity is found in the Gospel of John. In this scene, Mary is at Calvary at the foot of the Cross with John, the beloved disciple. John tells us, "When Jesus saw his mother, and the disciple whom he loved standing near, he said to his mother, 'Woman, behold your son.' Then he said to the disciple, 'Behold your mother'" (John 19: 26-27). Throughout the Church's history, numerous popes, theologians, and writers have confirmed their belief that here John is symbolic of all humanity. In other words, that Jesus from the Cross gave His Mother to every human person for all time.

Our Lord said, "Behold your mother." He was not suggesting that Mary become our mother, but that Mary is our Mother. And to Mary He gave us as children. But, if this is true, how do we make theological sense of this relationship? Turning again to Scripture, we can best understand it by considering St. Paul's beautiful doctrine of the Mystical Body of Christ (cf. Colossians 1:18, Ephesians 4:15). In this whole Body, St. Paul refers to Christ as the Head and the Church as the Body. Head and Body make up the entire and whole Mystical Body of Jesus Christ.

Now, if we say that Mary gave birth to Jesus, the Head of the Body, then it must be that she gave birth to the entire Body since a true body cannot be separated. Thus, it would mean that she gave birth to the members as well. In giving physical birth to Jesus, we can say that Mary made it possible for us to receive spiritual life through Him. We were dead, and through Him we have come back to life. And it was Mary's "yes" at the Annunciation that made our rebirth possible. To question this is to question the plan of God. For it was He who decided from all eternity that it would be so. And the list of those who have believed it is almost endless.

Once we have established that Mary is our true Spiritual Mother, we must ask what this means for us in our everyday lives? What is a mother, anyway? What does a mother do? Why did God arrange it so that every human person would come into the world through a mother? There must be a reason. Does a mother simply give birth to a child only to abandon him or her? Of course she does not. A mother not only gives birth, but she also is given by God so that she might nurture, feed, teach, guide, and protect her child. God entrusts her with these tasks. In the human family, a mother is not optional. So too, in the spiritual family of the Mystical Body of Christ, Mary, our Mother is not optional.

Any person who studies the history of the early Christian Church will easily discover the solid witness of how lovingly and faithfully these first believers in Christ, and countless others who went after them down through the ages, turned confidently with love and devotion to the Mother of Jesus for protection, guidance, and assistance in their hours of gravest need. Why did they do this? It seems safe to assume they did so because they wished to obey Jesus. And, after all, she had given birth to Him, nurtured, fed, guided, and protected Him. If God allowed Himself to be born of her and chose her as His Mother, can we do anything but accept her as ours? To put our trust and confidence in her will always be pleasing to God because everything she does will always lead us closer to Him.



The Church has never claimed or taught that Mary is on an equal level with God. But, nonetheless, because we are her spiritual children, she looks tenderly on us and after us with a love so profound that we are moved to plead, "Oh Blessed Mother, pray for us, now and at the hour of our death. Amen."

Regarding the last quote highlighted above

I know Hoddie has been banned from this thread but I am answering this anyway.

Umm yeah it does. Though they might not have explicitly said so in those very words, every singular title they give her, ever prayer offered to her, the fact that they choose to call her Queen of Heaven, Mediatrix, and their belief that Jesus actually still has to listen to and obey His mommy shows that they put her on an equal level with God

I should also add that when Jesus said to john Behold your mother, that does not in any way make her our mother. Catholics read far too much into that. It is simply the words of a dying son telling His brother to taker her in and treat her like his own mom. Nothing more.



 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 26, 2016 by TheMatrixHasU71

[SavedOnebyGrace]

1 hour ago, TheMatrixHasU71 said:

Regarding the last paragraph of the article you quoted....

There’s a memorable line in a movie where a boy is breaking up with a girl, and she feels used. She cries out, "I am not a tissue! You can’t just throw me away!" To have used Mary to accomplish the Incarnation and then forget about her is to treat her like a tissue. God doesn’t work like that. When Catholics recognize Mary as Mediatrix and Co-Redemptrix, we acknowledge that God’s work in a person’s life transforms them eternally. Mary was given a new name at the Annunciation: Full of Grace. The new name indicates an ontological change. She was changed into a new person with a new role forever.

I don't know why this guy thinks we are just throwing Mary away and forgetting about her. What a load of crap.....

But even Jesus said (though not with the same words) that we aren't to treat His earthly mother any differently than any others.

Matthew 12:46   While he yet talked to the people, behold, [his] mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him.

Matthew 12:47   Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee.

Matthew 12:48   But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?

Matthew 12:49   And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!

Matthew 12:50   For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

And when Catholics blasphemously call Mary Mediatrix and Co Redemptrix I'd like to know how they respond to ....

 

1 Timothy 2:5   For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

And Mary, the handmaid of the Lord, not Queen and "full of grace" (bad translation anyway) as if that set her on a higher plane than any others would never dare call herself by such evil titles.

 

Luke 1:47   And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.

Luke 1:48   For he hath regarded the low estate of his handmaiden: for, behold, from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed.

Sure she is blessed; but that doesn't in any way mean that she is Queen of Heaven, Mediatrix and all that other nonsense. Catholics are reading far too much into it.

She may be called blessed, but she needed a savior just like the rest of us ... and she recognized that need according to Luke 1:47.

[HAZARD]

Jesus never call Mary mother. When ever he spoke to her He called her woman, just like every other woman He spoke to.

John 2:3, And when they wanted wine, the mother of Jesus saith unto him, They have no wine.

John 2:4, Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee? mine hour is not yet come.

John 19:26, When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son!

 

[Guest BacKaran]

When Christ said to John Behold your mother.. The reader needs to understand the customs of the day regarding the death of the oldest son and since Joseph is not mentioned, most likely he already died otherwise Joseph would have been taking care of her, not John.

Christ only meant that John, his beloved apostle, should take care of his mother, nothing more, nothing less.

Blessings all,

Karan

[HAZARD]

1 hour ago, BacKaran said:

When Christ said to John Behold your mother.. The reader needs to understand the customs of the day regarding the death of the oldest son and since Joseph is not mentioned, most likely he already died otherwise Joseph would have been taking care of her, not John.

Christ only meant that John, his beloved apostle, should take care of his mother, nothing more, nothing less.

Blessings all,

Karan

I was not talking about customs of the day in my previous post. The point I was making was this. Jesus never spoke to His mother any differently that He spoke to all other women. He called His mother "Woman," never mother. She was blessed among women, not above all other women as the rcc teaches.

John 2:3, And when they wanted wine, the mother of Jesus saith unto him, They have no wine.

John 2:4, Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee? mine hour is not yet come.

[existential mabel]

On 16/11/2016 at 3:56 PM, Hoddie said:

 

 

Then I'll ask you the same thing I asked Hazard and Kwik. How do you know for sure what are the thoughts, or in the minds and the hearts of the people praying in those photos, or in front of statues? Can you say that you are 100% sure they are worshiping a statue of the Blessed Virgin Mary or the Pope?

 

 

 

 

 

Peace

 

its irrelevant what she is thinking the fact of the matter is

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 worshiping a statue of the Blessed Virgin Mary or the Pope.

they are not God or Jesus or even the Holy Spirit

[HAZARD]

Hoodie wrote;

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"Then I'll ask you the same thing I asked Hazard and Kwik. How do you know for sure what are the thoughts, or in the minds and the hearts of the people praying in those photos, or in front of statues? Can you say that you are 100% sure they are worshiping a statue of the Blessed Virgin Mary or the Pope? "

.

Tell you what they are not doing when praying before idols, stone statues, dead men's bones, Mary, or the Pope. They are not doing what Jesus instructed the disciples and us to do.

Jesus taught us in John 16:23-26, "In that day (when I go back to the Father), ye shall ask me nothing . . . . . Whatsoever ye shall ASK THE FATHER in my name, He will give it you. Hitherto have ye asked nothing in my name: ASK, AND YE SHALL RECIEVE, that your joy may be full. . . At that day ye shall ASK IN MY NAME."

God the Father is the head of Christ and the Holy Spirit, and therefore He should be the one directly addressed in prayer;

1 Cor. 11:3;

 V.3. But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

Eph. 3:14-16;

V. 14, For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,
V. 15, Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,
V. 16, That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man;