QUESTIONS concerning 1Cor.15 & 1Thes.4

[WailingWall]

17 hours ago, Rare Bird said:

 Do you not have anything better to do with your time but contrive meaningless arguments that you have no intent whatsoever in edifying yourself or others with, but only to "drop scripture bombs" taken out of context in order to form a weak argument(s) that are heretical in nature?

 

Again. All I say is, "Wow". 

Hello Rare Bird. Are you a Rapturist? If so can you answer question below for me. I asked the question before, so ill just cut and paste it for ya.

My next question is about the LAST TRUMPET

1COR.15 [50] Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.[51] BEHOLD, I SHEW YOU A MYSTERY; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,[52] In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, AT THE LAST TRUMP: FOR THE TRUMPET SHALL SOUND, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.[53] For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.[54] So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

The above scripture points out that “we shall all be changed” as the LAST TRUMPET is blown.

MATTHEW 24 [29]IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE TRIBULATION of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: [30] And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. [31] And he shall send his angels with A GREAT SOUND OF A TRUMPET, and THEY SHALL GATHER TOGETHER HIS ELECT from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Here we find a trumpet being blown after the tribulation period. No matter how ya figure it, you cannot have the LAST TRUMPET being blown before the tribulation or at mid tribulation if a trumpet is being blown AFTER the tribulation. How do you Rapturist explain this.

[OneLight]

1 hour ago, WailingWall said:

Here we find a trumpet being blown after the tribulation period. No matter how ya figure it, you cannot have the LAST TRUMPET being blown before the tribulation or at mid tribulation if a trumpet is being blown AFTER the tribulation. How do you Rapturist explain this.

There are many views of when the rapture will happen.  There is the pre-trib, mid-trib, pre-bowls, post trib and partial trib, to name those I can think of right now.  It seems you are trying to set one to argue with the other.  By your wording, it seems you do not believe there will be a rapture.  Why don't we concentrate on what message you are trying to bring here.  It is lost with all this cross chatter.

[Rare Bird]

2 hours ago, WailingWall said:

Hello Rare Bird. Are you a Rapturist? If so can you answer question below for me. I asked the question before, so ill just cut and paste it for ya.

My next question is about the LAST TRUMPET

1COR.15 [50] Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.[51] BEHOLD, I SHEW YOU A MYSTERY; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,[52] In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, AT THE LAST TRUMP: FOR THE TRUMPET SHALL SOUND, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.[53] For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.[54] So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

The above scripture points out that “we shall all be changed” as the LAST TRUMPET is blown.

MATTHEW 24 [29]IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE TRIBULATION of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: [30] And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. [31] And he shall send his angels with A GREAT SOUND OF A TRUMPET, and THEY SHALL GATHER TOGETHER HIS ELECT from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Here we find a trumpet being blown after the tribulation period. No matter how ya figure it, you cannot have the LAST TRUMPET being blown before the tribulation or at mid tribulation if a trumpet is being blown AFTER the tribulation. How do you Rapturist explain this.

I am a born again Christian--reasoning out scriptures within the context of each particular topic as it relates to the whole of scripture--and am under no obligation to waste my time on a person such as yourself, who is more adament about arguing for the sake of arguing than in edifying the body; realized in the fact that you will not answer my questions, but only propose more. This speaks volumes to your character and personality and tells me that you are a control-freak, manipulative and without any show of humility.

I also know all about the "last trumpet". And the trumpets of the feasts and the Jewish heritage that underlays their signifcance as it relates to the 70th week of Daniel (aka: Tribulation period) and Great Tribulation (i.e., last 3.5 years), and common misunderstanding about the [types of] trumpets. Yet anything I relay will only result in more cut-and-paste reply scriptures taken out of context, followed by more questions from you. (So call me a "rapturist" if that will make you happy.)

Having said that, I am not about to waste one more moment on this topic, because anything I--or anyone else here--responds with, will only end up with more futile cut-and-paste jobs from the other site you frequent, without you answering our questions in order to reason scripture. This type of behavior--in addition to your grandiose sense of self-worth and need for stimulation (i.e., posting the same stuff on two, possibly more, forums) is indicative to that of a psychopath, and those types of games are best left to the weak-minded.

Have a nice day.

Edited November 20, 2016 by Rare Bird

[WailingWall]

7 minutes ago, Rare Bird said:

Have a nice day.

Thank you. May you also have a nice day

[WailingWall]

1 hour ago, OneLight said:

There are many views of when the rapture will happen.  There is the pre-trib, mid-trib, pre-bowls, post trib and partial trib, to name those I can think of right now.  It seems you are trying to set one to argue with the other.  By your wording, it seems you do not believe there will be a rapture.  Why don't we concentrate on what message you are trying to bring here.  It is lost with all this cross chatter.

Hi OneLight

I believe the 1Cor.15 event will take place and its described in Ezek.37

EZEK.37

[12] Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I WILL OPEN YOUR GRAVES, AND CAUSE YOU TO COME UP OUT OF YOUR GRAVES, and bring you into the land of Israel.

[13] And ye shall know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves,

Theres THE DEAD IN CHRIST who rise first (1Thes.4). The first resurrection. But..... there not headin for heaven.

[21] And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:

Its the gathering of Gods people, THOSE WHO ARE ALIVE AT HIS COMING. The gathering will be done in the twinkling of an eye. Not by public transit. And were all headin for the land of Israel as promised in the Word.

[24] And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them.

[25] And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever.

One shepherd.

[26] Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them: and I will place them, and multiply them, and will SET MY SANCTUARY IN THE MIDST OF THEM FOR EVERMORE. [27] MY TABERNACLE ALSO SHALL BE WITH THEM: yea, I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Verses 26 and 27. “And so shall we ever be with the Lord” {1Thes.4 v17}. Its quite obvious that 1Thes.4 and Ezek.37 are speaking of the same event. No so called rapture. But the gathering of Gods people to the kingdom

 

[Last Daze]

20 hours ago, WailingWall said:

My next question is about the LAST TRUMPET

The last trumpet is also referred to as the trumpet of God.  I haven't found a trumpet of God that sounds after this one so I consider it to be the last:

Then the Lord will appear over them,
And His arrow will go forth like lightning;
And the Lord God will blow the trumpet,
And will march in the storm winds of the south.

Zechariah 9:14

[WailingWall]

42 minutes ago, Last Daze said:

The last trumpet is also referred to as the trumpet of God.  I haven't found a trumpet of God that sounds after this one so I consider it to be the last:

Then the Lord will appear over them,
And His arrow will go forth like lightning;
And the Lord God will blow the trumpet,
And will march in the storm winds of the south.

Zechariah 9:14

I agree. It is the last one

ZECHARIAH 9  [14] And the LORD shall be seen over them, and his ARROW shall go forth as the lightning: and THE LORD GOD SHALL BLOW THE TRUMPET, and shall go with WHIRLWINDS of the south. [15] The LORD of hosts shall defend them; and they shall devour, and subdue with sling stones; and they shall drink, and make a noise as through wine; and they shall be filled like bowls, and as the corners of the altar. [16] And the LORD their God shall save them in that day as the flock of his people: for they shall be as the stones of a crown, LIFTED UP AS AN ENSIGN upon his land.

ZECH.9............ God shall blow the trumpet {last one}...............lift up ensign

ISAIAH 18.......He {God} shall blow the trumpet {last one}.......lift up ensign

ISAIAH 18  [3] All ye inhabitants of the world, and dwellers on the earth, see ye, when he LIFTETH UP AN ENSIGN on the mountains; and WHEN HE BLOWETH A TRUMPET, hear ye. [4] For so the LORD said unto me, I WILL TAKE MY REST, AND I WILL CONSIDER IN MY DWELLING PLACE like a clear heat upon herbs, and like a cloud of dew in the heat of harvest.

ISAIAH 18......I will take my rest, and I will consider in my dwelling place

PSALM 132....this is my rest for ever: here will I dwell......Zion

PSALM 132  [13] For the LORD hath chosen ZION; he hath desired it for his habitation.[14] THIS IS MY REST FOR EVER: HERE WILL I DWELL; for I have desired it.

Just as ive stated before. When God blows the LAST trumpet He does not show everyone directions back to heaven. He {and we} head for Zion. His kingdom on earth

Edited November 20, 2016 by WailingWall

[Dave Watchman]

On 11/17/2016 at 3:16 PM, WailingWall said:

After being changed in the twinkling of an eye, we meet the Lord in the air. Where do we go from there? All the Rapturist claim we are going to heaven. Thing is, i cant find where that is actually written. Can anyone point out the scripture that makes that claim

I don't think there's an easy proof text for this. The answer, if you are willing to accept it, has to be pieced together from various locations. But when this thing gets going I doubt very much that anyone here will be disappointed with what happens. But I'll bet we'll be surprised at how much time we are "in the air" for.

“Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the great and awesome day of the Lord comes. And he will turn the hearts of fathers to their children and the hearts of children to their fathers, lest I come and strike the land with a decree of utter destruction.”

The King James reads: "lest I come and smite the earth with a curse...

So IF Elijah were to fail in his assignment, the Earth gets a curse. A decree of utter destruction.

Speaking about John the Baptist, Jesus said:

"And if you are willing to accept it, he is the Elijah who was to come.

Jesus says IF we are willing to accept it. Did that sound peculiar? I don't recall John the Baptist having a very successful mission here. Does this mean that we get the curse part of Malachi 4? Is that why Jesus said IF we are willing to accept it?

And is this also why Jesus said:

"In my Father’s house are many rooms. If it were not so, would I have told you that I go to prepare a place for you? And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will take you to myself, that where I am you may be also.

I understand that the New Jerusalem is probably The Father's house with many rooms, but this Beloved City doesn't come down to Earth until AFTER the thousand years are finished.

Peter seems to be saying that Jesus wasn't coming back to stay until the time came for the restoration of "all things":

"and that he may send the Christ who hath been appointed for you, even Jesus: whom the heaven must receive until the times of restoration of all things,

But the restoration of "all things" doesn't seem to take place until the  thousand years of Revelation 20 are finished:

"And he who was seated on the throne said, “Behold, I am making "all things" new.” Also he said, “Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true.”

"Truly, I say to you, there will not be left HERE one stone upon another that will not be thrown down.”

Y'ALL might not have to go home, but we can't stay HERE.

See you in the air.

[OneLight]

1 hour ago, WailingWall said:

Hi OneLight

I believe the 1Cor.15 event will take place and its described in Ezek.37

EZEK.37

[12] Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I WILL OPEN YOUR GRAVES, AND CAUSE YOU TO COME UP OUT OF YOUR GRAVES, and bring you into the land of Israel.

[13] And ye shall know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves,

Theres THE DEAD IN CHRIST who rise first (1Thes.4). The first resurrection. But..... there not headin for heaven.

[21] And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:

Its the gathering of Gods people, THOSE WHO ARE ALIVE AT HIS COMING. The gathering will be done in the twinkling of an eye. Not by public transit. And were all headin for the land of Israel as promised in the Word.

[24] And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them.

[25] And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever.

One shepherd.

[26] Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them: and I will place them, and multiply them, and will SET MY SANCTUARY IN THE MIDST OF THEM FOR EVERMORE. [27] MY TABERNACLE ALSO SHALL BE WITH THEM: yea, I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Verses 26 and 27. “And so shall we ever be with the Lord” {1Thes.4 v17}. Its quite obvious that 1Thes.4 and Ezek.37 are speaking of the same event. No so called rapture. But the gathering of Gods people to the kingdom

 

Are you saying that we are not caught up together in the clouds as the NT prophecies state in 1 Thessalonians 4:17 "Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord." Do you not believe the NT?  Was Ezekiel about the Church or Israel?  I see Ezekiel talking about Israel, not the church.  Scripture does back up scripture, but not in this case.

[WailingWall]

2 hours ago, OneLight said:

Are you saying that we are not caught up together in the clouds as the NT prophecies state in 1 Thessalonians 4:17 "Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord." Do you not believe the NT?  Was Ezekiel about the Church or Israel?  I see Ezekiel talking about Israel, not the church.  Scripture does back up scripture, but not in this case.

Yes, i believe in the new testament prophecies. We meet the Lord in the air and its off to the kingdom. Not heaven