Babylon, the Harlot and the Seven Headed Beast Explained.

[Daniel 11:36]

To understand the beast, his assigned kingdoms [heads], and the "woman" you must get this:

The first beast of Revelation is Abaddon/Apollon who rules over the 7 human kingdoms in the scope of the prophetic visions for Satan ..... 5 are now historical, and 2 are still pending

The "woman" is symbolic for lost humanity unfaithful to the Lord

If these precepts are applied you will be able to further you understanding

This is an overview of the Lord's evaluation from post flood Babel ....... to MBG at the time of the end of this present age 

Edited January 16, 2017 by Daniel 11:36

[Revelation Man]

On 1/14/2017 at 11:24 PM, Salty said:

See what Paul said in 2 Corinthians 11 about the "another Jesus". This is what he was actually pointing to.

About the idea of one of the "seven heads" suffering a "deadly wound"..., I realize that's where some get the supposition that the beast is killed and then comes back to life, however, that is not actually what the deadly wound is about.

Rev 13:3
3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
KJV

The "seven heads" is part of the 1st beast of Rev.13:1-2 which has ten horns and ten crowns, meaning it is a system, a kingdom beast. That's why Rev.13:2 references the beast kingdoms of Daniel 7.

The following Scripture later in Rev.13 also reveals this point:

I understand your thesis here, but I do not think this is why most scholars/Christians who agree with me, think Revived Rome is where the Beast/A.C./Little Horn is from. It has more to do with Daniel chapters 7 and 8. You see the Fourth Beast is Rome, no one seriously believes that Babylon, Persia and Greece conquer Israel, are called Beasts, yet Rome conquered Israel and IS NOT A BEAST. Though some actually profess this, because they see the "Little Horn" is an End Time Event, so they just can not grasp that the Fourth Beast is a TWO BEAST Monster/entity. Rome is the Fourth Beast, then 10 Kings arise out of the Fourth Beasts Head, and a "LITTLE HORN" arises amongst them later on, and the 10 Kings give their powers over to the BEAST MAN/Anti-Christ.

If you notice,the Seven Headed Beast on Rev. 13 and 17 has only 10 Horns, where is the LITTLE HORN AT ? Why of course, he is one of the Seven Heads, because the Seven Heads are Seven Mountains and they are ALSO Seven Kings. So your LITTLE HORN is not lost in Rev. 13 and 17, he is a Head of the Beast, as are Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece and Rome. The Head being slain, then reviving has nothing to do with my belief about Rome being the End Time Beast......The Little Horn Arises out of the Fourth Beast, which was Rome. That is where my understanding comes from. Now can the Beast being Slain mean that Rome is Revived ? Maybe, but that is not where I get my understandings from. 

And I agree, it is a System, and all of the Systems that conquered Israel are on display in Rev. 13 and 17, but the British Empire, Soviet Union, Mongols etc. etc. ARE NOT, because a Beast in the bible conquers Israel.

[Revelation Man]

22 hours ago, Daniel 11:36 said:

The 7 "mountains" are 7 kingdoms that exist over time .... 5 have fallen, and 2 are still pending

These human kingdoms are sequential, one after the other over time ..... and not existing at the same time as you are possibly implying

The 6th and 7th kingdoms are still pending .... the 6th smaller kingdom of the horn little horn and the 7th expanded/divided of the same

How can 2 be pending when it says 5 have fallen, ONE IS (Rome) and ONE IS YET TO COME ? Not 2 is yet to come. The Little Horn Anti-Christ is all that is left to come, the 8th King is a Demon who is over the 7 nothing ore, nothing less, he is not a Beast Kingdom unto himself, he is the King of Demons over the Beast Kings........Just like he was the King of the Pit. 

 

22 hours ago, Daniel 11:36 said:

The symbolic "mountain" is a kingdom in prophetic scripture, even the Lord's coming millennial kingdom upon the earth is described as a mountain that will fill the whole earth

 

AGREED............It has  nothing to do with Seven Hills,thus it is NOT A CITY.

23 hours ago, Daniel 11:36 said:

And so are the 7 human kingdoms ruled over by Satan's beast

 

I pretty much agree, the 8th king is over the 7. 

23 hours ago, Daniel 11:36 said:

Every kingdom must have a king .... the region over which the king rules

There are 7 kingdoms in the scope of the visions and all of them must have a king "position"

The Lord's coming millennial kingdom will replace the 7 human kingdoms which He will rule over Himself

On the other hand, Satan's beast rules over all 7 of the human kingdoms over time, and when he fully possesses the human little horn [who will rule both the 6th and the 7th], the beast will become the 8th king himself [Revelation 9:1; 9:11; 11:7; 13:1-4; 17:9-13]

This is not hard to understand, but there are many who have been taught preconceptions that stand in the way

These Seven Kingdoms are not JUST KINGDOMS however, they are/must be Kingdoms that conquered, enslaved or ruled Israel. This implies men by heeding Satan have tried to subvert Gods own design for our Governance, as he was trying to make plain to us via His dealings with Israel. And yes, Jesus does replace the "Governance" of men, he is the Mountain that Grows and Grows and Grows until it covers all the Earth. I am not positive he possesses the Bast, but I imagine he does. 

[Revelation Man]

11 hours ago, Salty said:

I agree the 10 kings (ten toes) are about the 4th beast in Dan.7, and that the "little horn" also is of that 4th beast per Dan.7.

I also agree that the beast kingdom and beast king of Rev.13 is the 4th beast of Daniel 7, and also about the 7th king of Rev.17:10 that must continue "a short space".

Why are we agreeing so much today.............. 

11 hours ago, Salty said:

 

15 hours ago, douggg said:

Salty, the 10 kings in Daniel 7 are of the fourth kingdom.    The little horn is of the fourth kingdom.    

In Revelation 17, the beast is the fourth kingdom, and in Revelation 13, the beast is the fourth kingdom (also the king of it).

I agree the 10 kings (ten toes) are about the 4th beast in Dan.7, and that the "little horn" also is of that 4th beast per Dan.7.

I also agree that the beast kingdom and beast king of Rev.13 is the 4th beast of Daniel 7, and also about the 7th king of Rev.17:10 that must continue "a short space".

 

Quote

 

 The seven heads are seven mountains where the woman sits.    The woman is not seven powers.     You are getting everything confused.    The woman sits in a place that has seven mountains.        

She also sits on many waters - which that is defined in the text as  15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.

And the woman must be something that the ten kings can destroy with fire.

I am pretty sure that is the RCC with it's headquarters the Vatican in Rome.

Rev 17:1
... I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:
KJV

Per Rev.17:15 those "waters" the great whore sits upon represent peoples, multitudes, tongues, and nations, meaning geographical areas on earth, so how am I confused on that, because that shows the "seven mountains" are not about the idea of just seven hills? And even if it was about seven hills surrounding a city like Rome, that definition was applied to old Jerusalem back in its history too.

 

Mostly agree here again, except I see the Seven Mountains as Seven Kingdoms from Egypt to the Little Horn/A.C.

11 hours ago, Salty said:

Per Rev.17:18 the "woman" is a "great city". Per Rev.17:8 Jerusalem is referenced as the "great city" where God's two witnesses are killed with their dead bodies being left in the street, and it is where the beast ascends out of the bottomless pit to kill them.

As you know, I think the "Great City" referenced here is Babylon, and God is mentioning it metaphorically. Jerusalem is also called a Great City in various places, lets face it, both are "Great Cites" in Bible lingo. 

11 hours ago, Salty said:

In 2 Thess.2:3-4, Apostle Paul showed the coming Antichrist will exalt himself in the "temple of God" which is a direct reference to a standing temple in Jerusalem. Paul showed that false one will work great signs and lying wonders to deceive. In Matthew 24:23-26 Jesus showed us about a coming pseudo-Christ ("false Christs" actually is Greek pseudochristos in the NT manuscripts) to Jerusalem for the end, working great signs and wonders that if possible would deceive even His very elect.

 

Agreed, he does set up an Abomination in the Temple which shocks all of Israel. As per Matthew 24:23-26 have you ever thought of it like this ? Israel flees to the Mountains, where they are safe. Jesus then warns, do not come to me in the Desert, or in a Chamber (or anywhere) because when this Abomination happens [and you flee to safety] you will be protected as long as you do not fall for their tricks, because when I COME.......It will be in the Eastern Skies, and all peoples and nations will see me coming. Jesus was telling the Jewish peoples who fled Israel/Jerusalem, hey guys, even though by this time you have accepted me as your Messiah, DO NOT GO OUT TO SOMEONE PROCLAIMING TO BE THE MESSIAH, Working Miracles etc. etc. Because that will not be me, I will be coming in the SKIES for all to see (of course we the Church will come back with him). 

I truly think this is what Jesus meant by that warning. Then in Matthew 32-44 He told the Messianic Jews who believed in him before the Rapture what "THEY" should look for, there will be two in the field, ONE TAKEN and the OTHER LEFT. One is the Rapture, the other the Second Coming Immediately after the Tribulation.

12 hours ago, Salty said:

In Rev.13:11, John is shown a second beast, an entity, appearing with two horns like a lamb (symbolic of Christ), but speaks as a dragon (Satan). He is to rain fire down from heaven in the sight of men, and work great signs and wonders to deceive the whole world.

So no, I cannot buy that the coming Antichrist is about a pope or the RCC. That was an old Protestant belief. (My ancestors were French huguenots, the first Protestants in France which the old RCC had war against).

The more I have pondered on this lately, I truly think God has given me clarity here. I think the "False Prophet" will be a Jewish Rabbi" and his job is to deceive as many Jewish peoples as he can. Most will have accepted Jesus as their Messiah before the Abomination of Desolation, thus he arises out of THE LAND (Jewish) and he is a False Prophet. I think it is a Rabbi of some sort, whom Satan is controlling. 

[Daniel 11:36]

"How can 2 be pending when it says 5 have fallen, ONE IS (Rome) and ONE IS YET TO COME ?"

 

Good question

John was shown the things "hereafter" .... the things after the Lord's dispensation of grace and the beginning of the coming tribulation period

Both the one that "is" [6th] and the next [7th] are still pending as we speak

Both are future kingdoms, one after the other

The little horn's smaller kingdom will be in existence at the beginning of the tribulation .... then he will expand it into the 7th divided kingdom with 10 other kings

The first beast of Revelation has been operating for a long time and ruling over human Middle Eastern kingdoms for Satan .... the first 5 are historical

When his 5th kingdom fell [the Syrian northern Seleucid] he was sent to the abyss and not functioning during the ancient Roman period ... and this beast is still in the abyss to be released at the beginning of the coming tribulation period [the beginning of the 70th week decreed for Israel]

The 4th kingdom in Daniel 7:7-25; 8:9-25; 11:36-45 was not the Roman, but is the future kingdom of the little horn

Here is the break: Daniel 11:21-35 [this is the exact profile of Antiochus IV, the last king of the Seleucid] ......... Daniel 11:36-45 [the future little horn]

The Roman and subsequent rules of the Arabian, Mongol, Parthian, Ottoman, and British are not contained within the scope of the prophetic visions

Here is why:

The breach lies between the ending of the 69th week decreed for Israel and the Lord's cutting off ........ and the beginning of the 70th week still pending [Daniel 9:24-27]

This breach parallels the Lord's dispensation of grace still on going .... once ended, He will bring the 70th week decreed [Romans 11:25-36]

This perspective will set the backdrop for the correct rendering

 

 

 

Edited January 16, 2017 by Daniel 11:36

[Revelation Man]

11 hours ago, Salty said:

But what of all those other direct pointers to Jerusalem that I mentioned? One cannot substantiate that it's Rome with just the phrase "seven heads" or "seven mountains", and here's another reason why that is so:

Rev 12:3-4
3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
KJV

That event of verse 4, about the third of stars (angels) being drawn to the earth by that dragon (Satan) sets the time of that beast of "seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns". That is NOT about the latter day beast kingdom, nor any other time except the time of Satan's original rebellion of old per Isaiah 14. That beast had only "seven crowns" if you'll note. The one in Rev.13 for the end is to have ten crowns. Yet, there that "seven heads" is with that old beast system that Satan originally rebelled with! So did that mean seven hills of Rome back then of old when Satan first rebelled? No, of course not. So that is another reason why we can't just arbitrarily assign the idea of 'seven hills' around city in place of our Lord Jesus' definition of "seven mountains" in Rev.17.

 

This is the exact same Beast. We understand the Beast PLUCKS UP THREE of the Kings, we are told that in Daniel, so there are Seven Kings (Kingdoms) but only 7 Crowns, meaning three of the Kings Disagreed at some point in time and were destroyed by the Beast, and their Kingdoms were given to the other 7 in some manner, who all gave their Power to THE BEAST. This is all that means, in essence, you had 10 Kings that gave their powers to the Beast, and by the end, there will only be 7 Kings in league with the Beast. Revelation 17 happens at the time of the Abomination in Rev. 6 and 7. Rev. 12 tells of the whole Israel/Jesus/Dragon story, but it ends with Israel in the Wilderness for 1260 Days, and by this point in time, the Kings are down to 7. 

In reality, Rev. 17 and 13 happen before Rev. 12 ends. 

As everyone knows, I don't consider the "CITY" in Rev. 17:18 to be a city, not Rome or Jerusalem, I see it as Babylon, a metaphor for how God sees all Governance of Men, when they leave God out of the Equation.

 

[Revelation Man]

11 hours ago, douggg said:

I am sorry, Salty, but I must stop this conversation for awhile.   My 93 year old mother, who I love very much, just died in the other room.    It is a sad day for me.

She is with the Lord no doubt brother, and you will see her again shortly. We have this blessed hope, Amen. 

[Revelation Man]

4 hours ago, Salty said:

Yes the first five verses are a summary about the "woman" representing Israel, I agree with that. But in verses 3-4 it is also including the event of Satan's original rebellion against God so as to be an easy identifier of who that "red dragon" is.

But no, the latter Rev.12 references to the woman after verse 7 is about Christ's Church to include 'believing' Israel. This is why Rev.12:11 says they overcame the dragon by the blood of The Lamb (Christ), pointing to the tribulation for the end since that is when the dragon is booted down to the earth with his angels and no more in Heaven to accuse us before God's throne.

As you know I differ somewhat here, and I think both the Christians of the world (the Church is in Heaven) and Israel who have accepted Jesus as their Messiah/Savior by this time are mentioned here. The misconception derives from this it seems....

Revelation 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

This has nothing to do with the Woman turning into the Church here. This has EVERYTHING to do with the Angels in Heaven shouting out glories, that Satan, the accuser of the "Brethren" has been cast down, the brethren that were killed for their faith throughout the ages. This is just signifying what Satan has been guilty of throughout the age of Christendom, it doesn't turn Israel, the women, into the Church, it just mentions the plight of the church for the last 2000 years. 

The Last verse in this chapter mentions both the Woman (Israel) and the Remnant of HER SEED (Jesus) which is the Church that became the Body of Jesus Christ after the Rapture. They are the Remnant that is left, it SAYS THIS, because they are shown to be Christians. There is a WOMAN and a REMNANT here. Two Entities, not one.

I agree, the "Woman" has turned to Christ by this time, and thus are technically "Christians" but for the Chapter, nothing changes in the designation of the Woman, and here is WHY...........The Woman is protected by God, because God promised  Abraham to save a Remnant of Israel. God does not physically protect the Remnant of the SEED or the Church because as we see, they are Beheaded or Martyred for the testimony of Jesus Christ. But God protects Israel for AS WE KNOW............1260 Days. You see the difference here brother ? 

5 hours ago, Salty said:

You don't get to the first 1260 days until verse 6, with verse 7 being about the war in Heaven with Satan and his angels booted down to this earth. The first 5 verses are a type of summary, from the time of Satan's original rebellion against God all the way to the future beyond us today when Jesus will reign over the nations with a rod of iron as promised.

So you need to back up... and consider that event given in Rev.12:3-4 about what the "red dragon" did, and when he did it, for that specific event happened of old, and is NOT about the events of the Book of Daniel 70 weeks prophecy.

As already stated, God protects the Woman and does not protect the Remnant. They have to be different entities. 

 

[Revelation Man]

22 hours ago, Daniel 11:36 said:

Good question

John was shown the things "hereafter" .... the things after the Lord's dispensation of grace and the beginning of the coming tribulation period

Both the one that "is" [6th] and the next [7th] are still pending as we speak

Both are future kingdoms, one after the other

NO........That is just not the case, you guys take ONE WORD and destroy prophecy by overemphasizing the singular. If everything was "HEREAFTER" as you imply, Rev. 12 wouldn't have the Birth of Jesus in it. The word "HEREAFTER" is meant as a proffer that the visions are about the FUTURE, but that doesn't stop some things from being about the past to set up the FUTURE VISIONS MEANING.... FOR INSTANCE....Your whole point breaks down because John says FIVE HAVE FALLEN...........So they can be in the past, but the ONE THAT IS has to be in the future. 

The One that IS was Rome. You guys way over-complicate scriptures. 

[Daniel 11:36]

If everything was "HEREAFTER" as you imply, Rev. 12 wouldn't have the Birth of Jesus in it. The word "HEREAFTER" is meant as a proffer that the visions are about the FUTURE, but that doesn't stop some things from being about the past to set up the FUTURE VISIONS MEANING.... FOR INSTANCE....Your whole point breaks down because John says FIVE HAVE FALLEN...........So they can be in the past, but the ONE THAT IS has to be in the future. 

The One that IS was Rome. You guys way over-complicate scriptures."

 

No ..... Revelation 12 has a few historical reach backs, in this case verses 1 thru 5

Then the vision moves into the future in verse 12:6 .... this is much like Daniel 11:35 .......... 11:36, the end of Antiochus IV's rule .... to the time of the end still pending as we speak [see Zechariah 14:4-5; Matthew 24:15-16]

Rome is not a part of any of the prophets' visions, all of the related materials of history from the 5th fallen kingdom to the beginning of the 6th and 7th is not covered in the Lord's more sure word of prophecy

The 6th and 7th kingdoms still to come as we speak are the little horns kingdoms at the time if the end of this present age .... the 6th smaller and then the 7th expanded/divided with 10 other kings

Rome and subsequent rulers are not found in the prophetic scriptures [Arabian, Mongol, Parthian, Ottoman, and British are not even described]

This period of about 2000 years is not found in any scripture .... the next event still future will include the 70th week decreed for Israel still pending and beyond

 

 

 

Edited January 17, 2017 by Daniel 11:36