T.U.L.I.P. REFUTED IN SCRIPTURE

[StanJ]

33 minutes ago, MorningGlory said:

If you want to keep things civil then why jab at Ezra for commenting?  All are free to comment on any thread unless banned by a mod.  I haven't read your linked article yet but I intend to.  Reporting someone for voicing their opinion is ridiculous,btw.

 so are you advocating that opinion outweighs civility on a Christian Forum like worthy? 

1Cor 10:23-24 

Opinion is not the issue. One of the rules of any Christian forum is to stay on topic and on track.

[StanJ]

40 minutes ago, MorningGlory said:

I have read the five points of TULIP and I agree that they are not Scriptural.

Thanks for your input.

[Omegaman 3.0]

On 12/10/2016 at 1:18 PM, StanJ said:

I reject all five points Kwik.  I'm sure anybody that supports the doctrine will understand what tulip means.

Still, for the sake of those who do not have an understanding of the 5 points, why not let them in on it?

Just to be clear though, it was not Calvin who came up with the 5 points, nor is it accurate to state that Calvinism, or Reformed Theology, is summed up by the 5 points.

There were 5 points that the followers of Jacob Arminius protested against, in Calvin's doctrine. In answer to those 5 objections, the five points we now sometimes refer to as T.U.L.I.P. were stated at about the time that Arminianism was declared a heresy. I think the word heresy is too strong, but that is what they called it at the council of Dort.

Here are the five petals of the T.U.L.I.P.:

1    Total Depravity
Man is not capable of coming to God without God’s assistance. Left to his own, he rejects God. We are slaves to sin, and spiritually blind.

Unconditional Election
God’s election is an unconditional act of free grace that was given through his Son Jesus before the world began. By this act, God chose, before the foundation of the world, those who would be delivered from bondage to sin and brought to repentance and saving faith in Jesus.
The election of God, is God choosing people for Himself, to be freed of the slavery to sin, and to gain spiritual understanding so that he can then choose God after he has understood God's call. This is done as an act of Grace, and is not based on any merit in man, but in God's sovereign choice, which He made before the foundation of the world.

Limited Atonement
The atonement is limited, not everyone shall be saved. It is limited to those, who have received Christ as their savior.

Irresistible Grace
The rebellion and resistance that each of us exerts against God, is overcome in God's timing. His saving grace is for those he chooses freely to save, for His own purposes.

Perseverance of the Saints
Since it is God’s work that saved us (and that apart from our own effort) it is not possible for a truly sanctified person, to walk away from God. No one, not even ourselves, can pluck our soul from God’s grip. We enjoy a measure of free will, but our will does not over-power God’s will. Furthermore, that we came to God since He chose us as ignorant and rebellious, how shall we leave knowing His grace, being conformed to His will, having been granted repentance? Shall we now walk away, once we can actually see? No, the weakness of sinful man, shall not overcome a powerful, righteous, and loving God. Our nature is changed, when we have come to believe, and that nature desires to live with God in eternity. God can, and does, keep those who are saved.

[StanJ]

40 minutes ago, Omegaman 3.0 said:

I see the edit, thanks, that is clearer. To get part of in as it now stands in the O.P. I quote the following:

" I'm hoping we can do this solely on the basis of scripture and not get personal but I can't control that. What I will be controlling is reporting those who do get personal and do not deal with scripture but simply voice their opinion.  "

To answer your question, generally I think we also prefer, that you not just copy and paste the work of others. Posting a link like that is also sort of counterproductive. This is mostly a discussion forum. When you post a link, most people will not read them anyway, and there will not ba a lot of descussion, because people have not read it. Think of it like this . . . when you are talling to people face to face, do you say: "Here, read this article!" I doubt that you do. Similarly, it might be best if you talk to people here, rather that starting off with a homework assignment.

Where you said: "I have no idea what you are talking about here", I am referencing what I just quoted from your O.P. You said you wanted a thread solely on the basis of scripture, but then you reference people to an opinion piece in the link. Yes, I suppose I suppor T.U.L.I.P., at least for the most part, when it is rightly understood and not misunderstood, like many modern Arminians tend to do. The "complaining", is not about that, it is just pointing out, that there is nothing that is not already discussed in these forums, before your new thread, and personally, I am not looking forward to having to get involved in policing another thread that goess off track and gets personal. You expressed as much yourself, but if you report such posts, guess what, I and the other administrators end up having to be the bad guys, spending time away from more important tasks than baby sitting people who lack respect and self control.

" I guess I understand why there is such a propensity for people to go off track on this forum given the example that leadership sets. If you don't want to participate then please don't."

Well, now that I am to blame for being the cause of the problem by the example I set, I prefer not to participate. However, unless there is something new that you want to bring to this topic, please don't make another collection of posts about differences of opinion that Christians hold, about peripheral issues. I do not think we need yet another. Don't make me come back, and I won't need to participate!

"The opening sentence in my OP states why I instigated this thread. "

Does it really? It does not really give a reason why we need a new additional thread, other than to say you want it to be scripture only, not opinion, but I read from that, it is only your opinion that matters, lol.

"figured that out all on your own did you? why even bother making a comment? no wonder this site has such a hard time keeping things civil and under control."

You can't be serious! You make a snotty remark like "Figure that out on your own did you?", and in the same breath speak to being civil? Yeah, this is going to work, lol! You are already off to a poor start with your attitude!

 Do you know what 'bating' is?  Is it against the rules here? 

 All you've basically done here so far is get personal and not address the OP.  Your agenda here is getting very clear and I request that you get George involved and stop wasting my time.

I addressed your numbered  response with the appropriate numbers and now you take everything out of context and misrepresent what I said.  Please stop trying to disrupt this thread.

[Omegaman 3.0]

1 minute ago, StanJ said:

Do you know what 'bating' is?  Is it against the rules here? 

 All you've basically done here so far is get personal and not address the OP.  Your agenda here is getting very clear and I request that you get George involved and stop wasting my time.

I addressed your numbered  response with the appropriate numbers and now you take everything out of context and misrepresent what I said.  Please stop trying to disrupt this thread.

First off, you may get George involved youself, if you wish, but I suggest that you do not, as he is out of his home county traveling at the moment, and should be allowed to go about his business with out being bothered by your attempt to squabble and challenge those with whom yoy do not agree. If you want some accountability, I suggest you consider using the report feature, and making it attention to Steve_S. He is an administor here, and is not a Calvinist, so I feel sure that he will deal with this fairly, but be careful what you hope for!

[StanJ]

6 minutes ago, Omegaman 3.0 said:

Still, for the sake of those who do not have an understanding of the 5 points, why not let them in.

Just to be cleat though, it was not Calvin who came up with the 5 points, nor is is accurate to state that Calvinism, or Reformed Theology, is summed up by the 5 points. There were 5 points that the followers of Jabob Arminius protested agains, in Calvin's dostrine. In answer to those 5 objections, the five points we now sometimes refer to as T.U.L.I.P. we stated at about the time that Arminianism was declared a heresy. I think the word heresy is to strong, but that is what they called it at the council of Dort.

Never-the-less, here are the five petals of the T.U.L.I.P.:

1.     Total Depravity

 

Man is not capable, of coming to God without God’s assistance, left to his own, he rejects God. We are slaves to sin, and spiritually blind.

 

 

 

2.     Unconditional Election

 

God’s election is an unconditional act of free grace that was given through his Son Jesus before the world began. By this act, God chose, before the foundation of the world, those who would be delivered from bondage to sin and brought to repentance and saving faith in Jesus.

 

 

 

The election of God, is God choosing people for Himself, to be freed of the slavery to sin, and to gain spiritual understanding so that he can then choose God after he has understood God's call. This is done as an act of Grace, and is not based on any merit in man, but in God's sovereign choice, which He made before the foundation of the world.

 

 

 

3.     Limited Atonement

 

The atonement is limited, not everyone shall be saved. It is limited to those, who have received Christ as their savior.

 

 

4.     Irresistible Grace

 

The rebellion and resistance that each of us exerts against God, is overcome in God's timing His saving grace for those he chooses freely to save, for His own purposes.

 

 

 

 

5.     Perseverance of the Saints

 

Since it is God’s work that saved us, and that apart from our own effort, it is not possible for a truly sanctified person, to walk away from God. No one, not even ourselves, can pluck our soul from God’s grip. We enjoy a measure of free will, but our will does not over-power God’s will. Furthermore, that we came to God since He chose us as ignorant and rebellious, how shall we leave knowing His grace, being conformed to His will, having been granted repentance? Sshall we now walk away, once we can actually see? No, the weakness of sinful man, shall not overcome a powerful, righteous, and loving God. Our nature is changed, when we have come to believe, and that nature desires to live with God in eternity.

 

 following link would have taken much less space & time and accomplished the same thing.

https://www.calvinistcorner.com/tulip.htm

[Omegaman 3.0]

Tell you what, I am going to save you the trouble, and report your post to Steve, and he can look over the thread and see what he thinks. You are welcome, by the way!

[StanJ]

2 minutes ago, Omegaman 3.0 said:

First off, you may get George involved youself, if you wish, but I suggest that you do not, as he is out of his home county traveling at the moment, and should be allowed to go about his business with out being bothered by your attempt to squabble and challenge those with whom yoy do not agree. If you want some accountability, I suggest you consider using the report feature, and making it attention to Steve_S. He is an administor here, and is not a Calvinist, so I feel sure that he will deal with this fairly, but be careful what you hope for!

 I think that would be up to George but thanks for totally derailing this thread.

 

[kwikphilly]

Stan.....are you actually asking Omegaman if he knows the rules?,,,,,Have you read our Terms of Service?Did you happen to notice he is a Board Moderator? And also,according to those terms,,,,,

Quote

These rules are subject to change at any time without notice. We will make every effort to ensure that users are aware of the changes in a timely manner.

And guess who willl tell you what they are when & if they do change?      I won't participate,I don't like to see anyone be disrespected,least of all our Worthy Servants

 

[Omegaman 3.0]

Well, just so you are not in the dark, full disclosure, here is what I reproted word for word:

Hey Steve, can you look over this thread, and discipline me for my actions, or do whatever else you think is in your best judgement?