When Christians Love Theology More Than People

[simplejeff]

On 12/22/2016 at 7:21 AM, nebula said:

"It’s easy to get caught up in theorizing about God, but within our everyday lives reality is what matters most to the people around us. Theorizing only becomes important once it becomes relevant and practical and applicable to our lives."

Why even theorize at all ?  YHWH'S people were never told to do so , nor did Y'SHUA MESSIAH (Jesus).

And what does 'theorizing' have to do with theology ?

According to YHWH'S WORD,  I think YHWH'S WORD is what matters most to everyone, regardless of what their thoughts are about this. (No amount of thinking, studying, nor theorizing will ever nor has ever changed even one little particle of YHWH'S WORD - YHWH'S WORD will remain unchanged forever, even past the end of the world).   YHWH'S WORD is the standard and judge of everyone's life.

[simplejeff]

2 hours ago, OneLight said:

Emotions do play part of our "stage of truth" and properly so.  We Love the Lord, which is a emotion, and is part of our theology.  I do strongly agree that emotions should not be a leading factor at all, but to deny they play any part of our theology, or claim it has no part of theology, is incorrect.  Humans cannot separate ourselves from our emotions.

Strange post, it seems to me.   Y'SHUA did not equate love with an emotion.  Neither did YHWH, nor HIS WORD anywhere as far as I'm aware.   From HIS WORD,  love, especially HIS LOVE - agape - is a choice.  And requires self-sacrificial living - no exception.

The trouble with not being separated by YHWH , set apart, holy ,

is that "humans" cannot and do not separate themselves from their emotions - crucifixion is required, and is perfect in YHWH'S PLAN, PURPOSE and SALVATION in Y'SHUA.  Death to self,  including subjecting everything - every thought, word, deed and emotion to the cross///  likewise always being brought subject to Y'SHUA(JESUS) MESSIAH.    (instead of being sons of disobedience)

emotions have no place in theology - except in judgment or freedom (a result, not a cause) - as in those who obey but who do so "grumbling" may be punished as were the Israelites,   whereas all the immersed ones in the NEW TESTAMENT served YHWH JOYOUSLY, --- continuously full of PEACE, JOY, AND RIGHTEOUSNESS (doing what is right every day, all the time).

[ravindran]

On 12/22/2016 at 8:21 AM, nebula said:

"It’s easy to get caught up in theorizing about God, but within our everyday lives reality is what matters most to the people around us. Theorizing only becomes important once it becomes relevant and practical and applicable to our lives."

https://sojo.net/articles/when-christians-love-theology-more-people

While the article is written with good intent and I do agree with the core message, I do not agree with the title. Theology is study of God. Every one is a theologian. We all need to study God through Word of God to improve our relationship with God. If we say something is more important or equally important to knowing God, I have a problem with that. I do agree people should not hold on to doctrines and traditions above the commandment - love your neighbor as you love yourselves.

I would argue the other way around. There is no point of showing good works (help poor and be kind and do every kind of charitable work) without knowing God. Our actions are to bring glory to God. While it is wrong to say we would hold on to traditions than showing love to other, it is equally wrong to say showing love to others is enough and not worry about theology and doctrines. One is not important over other. How each other complements in our lives is the important thing

[simplejeff]

14 minutes ago, ravindran said:

While the article is written with good intent and I do agree with the core message, I do not agree with the title. Theology is study of God. Every one is a theologian. We all need to study God through Word of God to improve our relationship with God. If we say something is more important or equally important to knowing God, I have a problem with that. I do agree people should not hold on to doctrines and traditions above the commandment - love your neighbor as you love yourselves.

I don't believe Jesus had anything to do with theology.  Neither did YHWH in the OT.  

YHWH'S WORD is TRUE, PERFECT, EVERLASTING, FOREVER, TRUSTWORTHY, FAITHFUL, POWERFUL,

and HE HIMSELF GUARDS TORAH.    Always has, always will.

As Jesus said "you must become like little children (infants) " ..... so also like as when we grew up if we grew up in a somewhat functional family at least -- as infants we WATCHED our parents,  enthralled with them ---- they taught us to speak, to listen, to walk, to use a spoon, fork and knife,  a pencil and pen,  (these days a calculator/ remote/ tv/ video/ computer/ games)

Everything our parents said we listened to intently with great joy and trusting them. (several posters have noted that they never knew any such children in their life;  that is too often true, but even in a somewhat functional family the children until they reach whatever age where they have learned some distracting or even rebellious behaviour will do just as they have been taught joyfully and obediently.  Of course, if the parents / guardians are living in rebellion[dis-obedience],  the children learn that from conception thru birth thru the beginning of their lives.  )

i.e. as infants we didn't "study" our parents or siblings - yet we learned everything from them.

(side-note: since most families on earth are "sons of disobedience",  that's what most people are used to and expect as 'normal',  apart from grace and mercy and revelation from YHWH)

 

Getting to the point :  "relationship with YHWH"  is not at all dependent on (and is most likely hurt by) "theology" more than most people realize, especially "scholars" (for reasons JESUS gave in the NT).

We seek YHWH and seek YHWH'S KINGDOM (HIS rulership of our lives, entirely) by HIS GRACE ALONE - it is not a natural inclination of the flesh which is always at war with the spirit.

 

"Showing love"  is not possible outside of Y'SHUA MESSIAH.    And WHO knows what is best for anyone, ever ?  YHWH knows.  ALWAYS.    So DOING YHWH'S WORD is ALWAYS BEST.  regardless of emotions or feelings.    YHWH knows what is best for each and every individual , person, group, nation, and people everywhere.    And we live by EVERY WORD that is proceeding from the mouth of YHWH. (HE IS ALIVE, always directing our lives when we joyfully trust HIM and rely on HIM) ....

By sheer grace in Jesus !

 

[existential mabel]

sigh yes the fatted sheep syndrome peeps keep labouring on all the theology, and not being able to reach out to peeps its all about factual stuff. so many peeps are going through it . that was why i left the charismatic church as i was pretty well broken with it all. definition of madness i reckon. keep on going on with it and i would see some individuals just ignored oh and the drums n whistles to get hyper to. so hollow and meaningless sigh still am looking for some connection but i didnt ever find it at that church.

there are quite a few peeps that go to church as they are in spiritual/emotional need and what do they get they get the above, so the next step would be to become an atheist....

[Guest shiloh357]

1 hour ago, simplejeff said:

I don't believe Jesus had anything to do with theology.  Neither did YHWH in the OT.  

YHWH'S WORD is TRUE, PERFECT, EVERLASTING, FOREVER, TRUSTWORTHY, FAITHFUL, POWERFUL,

and HE HIMSELF GUARDS TORAH.    Always has, always will.

As Jesus said "you must become like little children (infants) " ..... so also like as when we grew up if we grew up in a somewhat functional family at least -- as infants we WATCHED our parents,  enthralled with them ---- they taught us to speak, to listen, to walk, to use a spoon, fork and knife,  a pencil and pen,  (these days a calculator/ remote/ tv/ video/ computer/ games)

Everything our parents said we listened to intently with great joy and trusting them. (several posters have noted that they never knew any such children in their life;  that is too often true, but even in a somewhat functional family the children until they reach whatever age where they have learned some distracting or even rebellious behaviour will do just as they have been taught joyfully and obediently.  Of course, if the parents / guardians are living in rebellion[dis-obedience],  the children learn that from conception thru birth thru the beginning of their lives.  )

i.e. as infants we didn't "study" our parents or siblings - yet we learned everything from them.

(side-note: since most families on earth are "sons of disobedience",  that's what most people are used to and expect as 'normal',  apart from grace and mercy and revelation from YHWH)

 

Getting to the point :  "relationship with YHWH"  is not at all dependent on (and is most likely hurt by) "theology" more than most people realize, especially "scholars" (for reasons JESUS gave in the NT).

We seek YHWH and seek YHWH'S KINGDOM (HIS rulership of our lives, entirely) by HIS GRACE ALONE - it is not a natural inclination of the flesh which is always at war with the spirit.

 

"Showing love"  is not possible outside of Y'SHUA MESSIAH.    And WHO knows what is best for anyone, ever ?  YHWH knows.  ALWAYS.    So DOING YHWH'S WORD is ALWAYS BEST.  regardless of emotions or feelings.    YHWH knows what is best for each and every individual , person, group, nation, and people everywhere.    And we live by EVERY WORD that is proceeding from the mouth of YHWH. (HE IS ALIVE, always directing our lives when we joyfully trust HIM and rely on HIM) ....

By sheer grace in Jesus !

 

The irony is that everything you just posted....   Is Theology. 

[Ezra]

"Theorizing only becomes important once it becomes relevant and practical and applicable to our lives."

The person who wrote that article made the mistake of thinking that theology means "theorizing".  Theology (in its strictest sense) is the study of God, and more precisely the study of the God of the Bible (which includes the Lord Jesus Christ).

A better term is Bible doctrine, and unless a Christian has sound doctrine, the practical application will not be meaningful.  If a person believes that his good works will earn him a place in Heaven, he may do numerous good works but fail to enter Heaven. So salvation should lead to sound doctrine, which should then find practical application in good works. 

[simplejeff]

re : different uses or meanings or understandings of the word/ concept "theology" in this thread/ life in general, etc

1 hour ago, simplejeff said:

I don't believe Jesus had anything to do with theology.  Neither did YHWH in the OT.  

YHWH'S WORD is TRUE, PERFECT, EVERLASTING, FOREVER, TRUSTWORTHY, FAITHFUL, POWERFUL,

and HE HIMSELF GUARDS TORAH.    Always has, always will.

As Jesus said "you must become like little children (infants) " ..... so also like as when we grew up if we grew up in a somewhat functional family at least -- as infants we WATCHED our parents,  enthralled with them ---- they taught us to speak, to listen, to walk, to use a spoon, fork and knife,  a pencil and pen,  (these days a calculator/ remote/ tv/ video/ computer/ games)

Everything our parents said we listened to intently with great joy and trusting them. (several posters have noted that they never knew any such children in their life;  that is too often true, but even in a somewhat functional family the children until they reach whatever age where they have learned some distracting or even rebellious behaviour will do just as they have been taught joyfully and obediently.  Of course, if the parents / guardians are living in rebellion[dis-obedience],  the children learn that from conception thru birth thru the beginning of their lives.  )

i.e. as infants we didn't "study" our parents or siblings - yet we learned everything from them.

(side-note: since most families on earth are "sons of disobedience",  that's what most people are used to and expect as 'normal',  apart from grace and mercy and revelation from YHWH)

 

Getting to the point :  "relationship with YHWH"  is not at all dependent on (and is most likely hurt by) "theology" more than most people realize, especially "scholars" (for reasons JESUS gave in the NT).

We seek YHWH and seek YHWH'S KINGDOM (HIS rulership of our lives, entirely) by HIS GRACE ALONE - it is not a natural inclination of the flesh which is always at war with the spirit.

 

"Showing love"  is not possible outside of Y'SHUA MESSIAH.    And WHO knows what is best for anyone, ever ?  YHWH knows.  ALWAYS.    So DOING YHWH'S WORD is ALWAYS BEST.  regardless of emotions or feelings.    YHWH knows what is best for each and every individual , person, group, nation, and people everywhere.    And we live by EVERY WORD that is proceeding from the mouth of YHWH. (HE IS ALIVE, always directing our lives when we joyfully trust HIM and rely on HIM) ....

By sheer grace in Jesus !

 

=====================================================================

I agree basically with this given the understanding that "Theology" is not what others have said for thousands of years or as recently as TODAY.  i.e. see next below >>

21 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

The irony is that everything you just posted....   Is Theology. 

=====================================================================

....cont.   (next below) >>   noting for here that "Theology" is seen much differently by pagan institutions, by unbelievers, and even by believers for much or most or all of their lives potentially,

and most commonly "Theology" is simply not understood the same as here(these few posts).  (we are at odds with what most people and most institutions calls good theology).

4 minutes ago, Ezra said:

"Theorizing only becomes important once it becomes relevant and practical and applicable to our lives."

The person who wrote that article made the mistake of thinking that theology means "theorizing".  Theology (in its strictest sense) is the study of God, and more precisely the study of the God of the Bible (which includes the Lord Jesus Christ).

A better term is Bible doctrine, and unless a Christian has sound doctrine, the practical application will not be meaningful.  If a person believes that his good works will earn him a place in Heaven, he may do numerous good works but fail to enter Heaven. So salvation should lead to sound doctrine, which should then find practical application in good works. 

 

[Guest shiloh357]

3 minutes ago, simplejeff said:

re : different uses or meanings or understandings of the word/ concept "theology" in this thread/ life in general, etc

=====================================================================

I agree basically with this given the understanding that "Theology" is not what others have said for thousands of years or as recently as TODAY.  i.e. see next below >>

=====================================================================

....cont.   (next below) >>   noting for here that "Theology" is seen much differently by pagan institutions, by unbelievers, and even by believers for much or most or all of their lives potentially,

and most commonly "Theology" is simply not understood the same as here(these few posts).  (we are at odds with what most people and most institutions calls good theology).

 

Whatever you believe about God is theology.  It is YOUR theology.  No one has a right to a private definition of theology that they can make the working definition for everyone else.  Theology is what it is, period.

[existential mabel]

Quote

People can't  expect a Church to heal their prior emotional wounds & fulfill all their emotional needs, or to know  & heal their emotional baggage,

yes exactly my point which is why i left as my emotional needs are like an insurance claim written off. ok so next the spiritual thing it got so into the ought to do this ought to do that. for me even the shallow stuff didnt function lol as they just quoted script and God will heal you cough sneeze well must be summat wrong with me then as i have all the same probs o dear its a black dog of the night.

so yeah peeps cant help really but God, well he aint coming through and now the remnant of the church that i do get to is literally dying off. so where is God i wonder? hey i reckon God invented CTV cameras he looks but he doesnt do anything except watch. and then i listen to or used to listen to long sermons and thought well i am (cant use that particular word so i am struggling ....) ok you fill the blancs ------

i did try several house groups and they were just not right. so i go it alone and Gods probably got the CTV camera but is on a coffee break right now.

i think maybe i need a sabbatical from God. ..