iamlamad Posted March 5, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 8,272 Content Per Day: 2.08 Reputation: 689 Days Won: 4 Joined: 06/09/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted March 5, 2017 52 minutes ago, When Is Jesus Coming? said: Okay so we agree the sacrifices are stopped half way through the final 7 years, now lets look at Daniel 12:11-12 in more detail, this is from the Interlinear Bible: 'And from the time [that] the daily [sacrifice] shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, [there shall be] a thousand two hundred and ninety days.' Why would there be 1290 days be mentioned if the abomination was set up at the same time? There would be no need to state that there is a period of time if it was at the same time. Added to that we then see the is a further period of time that is between another two events, i.e. from the abomination being set up at the temple and the blessing for those who wait. This 45 day period is for those who refuse to take the mark in Jerusalem but choose to wait 45 days for Jesus to return (whenever that is). Blessed [is] he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days. I don't think so. From the second verse on, Daniel is wondering HOW LONG to the end? He don't like to see the saints losing. He wants to know how long to the time the saints WIN. I would say that is the theme of this entire chapter. The 1290 days is the same time given as the time, times and half of time, but with 30 added days. Perhaps we could say it is a more accurate number, given in days. In other words, it might not be 3 1/2 years exactly to the day. I think the meaning is this: from the time [that] the daily [sacrifice] shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, [there shall be] a thousand two hundred and ninety days [to the end of these wonders]. I believe the "to the end of these wonders" can be assumed by the previous verses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamlamad Posted March 5, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 8,272 Content Per Day: 2.08 Reputation: 689 Days Won: 4 Joined: 06/09/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted March 5, 2017 (edited) 7 hours ago, inchrist said: Really can you explain why we have the only evidence at the 7th trumpet for a literal ressurection? Can you also explain the sinners reaction to witnessing the first evidence to a literal ressurection at the 7th trumpet? 11 But after the three and a half days the breath[b] of life from God entered them, and they stood on their feet, and terror struck those who saw them. 12 Then they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, “Come up here.” And they went up to heaven in a cloud, while their enemies looked on. 13 At that very hour there was a severe earthquake and a tenth of the city collapsed. Seven thousand people were killed in the earthquake, and the survivors were terrified and gave glory to the God of heaven. 14 The second woe has passed; the third woe is coming soon. The Seventh Trumpet 15 The seventh angel sounded his trumpet,and there were loud voices in heaven, which said: You are taking sinners to dectate the gospel to you in the 6th seal to be the wrath....I would rather take the words of an angel to dectate to me when the wrath begins at the 7th trumpet. Sorry, but you are missing the intent of the Author. Rev. 11:4 through 11:13 are written as a parenthesis. They have no bearing on Chronology. The resurrection of the two witnesses will actually take place at the same time as the 7th vial in chapter 16. ---|-----> 42 months of trampling -----> ------> -----> -----> -----> 7th vial ---|-----> 1260 days of testifying ----> ----> death --> 3 1/2 days --> -- 7th vial -resurrection ---|-----> 1260 days of fleeing -----> ----->-----> ----->-----> -----> 7th vial ---|-----> 3 1/2 years of feeding and protection -----> ----->-----> -----> 7th vial -----{-----> 42 months of authority -----> ----->-----> ----->-----> -- 7th vial -----> Christ returns Notice the staggered beginning? The "|" at the beginning represents the exact midpoint. The 42 months of trampling and the 1260 days of testifying will begin 3 1/2 days before the exact midpoint. For the two witnesses, their testimony will go until just 3 1/2 days before the end of the week (the 7th vial). They will be killed and lay dead those 3 1/2 days. Then they will rise up at the last day (24 hours) at the 7th vial with all the Old Testament saints' resurrection time. (the two witnesses will be Old Testament saints). In other words, all five of these timelines will run concurrently during the last half of the week. Anyone who can read with understanding will see that the trumpet judgments are the wrath of God. Once more for the record: THERE IS NO RESURRECTION AT THE 7th TRUMPET! That theory is myth. Edited March 5, 2017 by iamlamad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
When Is Jesus Coming? Posted March 5, 2017 Group: Senior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 24 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 505 Content Per Day: 0.19 Reputation: 299 Days Won: 1 Joined: 02/19/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted March 5, 2017 2 hours ago, iamlamad said: I don't think so. From the second verse on, Daniel is wondering HOW LONG to the end? He don't like to see the saints losing. He wants to know how long to the time the saints WIN. I would say that is the theme of this entire chapter. The 1290 days is the same time given as the time, times and half of time, but with 30 added days. Perhaps we could say it is a more accurate number, given in days. In other words, it might not be 3 1/2 years exactly to the day. I think the meaning is this: from the time [that] the daily [sacrifice] shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, [there shall be] a thousand two hundred and ninety days [to the end of these wonders]. I believe the "to the end of these wonders" can be assumed by the previous verses. 'to the end of wonders'? Why are you adding to scripture? That's not in the Bible, here take a look: http://biblehub.com/daniel/12-11.htm While you're there you will also see that all of the different translations state that the 1290 days are between the sacrifices being stopped to the abomination being set up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamlamad Posted March 6, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 8,272 Content Per Day: 2.08 Reputation: 689 Days Won: 4 Joined: 06/09/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted March 6, 2017 7 hours ago, inchrist said: Sorry but now you are moving Johns chronology around, which is ironic because that is exactly what you have accused others of 14 The second woe has passed; the third woe is coming soon. The 2 witnesses ministry falls with in the trumpets... At the sounding of the first three trumpets, fire fell to earth (8:7-11), and in the case of the witnesses fire comes from their moutes and devours their enemies (v. 5). The second trumpet turned a third of the sea to blood (8:8-9), and the two witnesses have the power to turn the waters into blood, and in fact strike the earth with every kind of plague as often as they want (v. 6). The trumpets are under the control of the two witnesses. You only think that because you don't recognize 11:4-11_13 as the parenthesis that it is. Yes, John wrote it in chapter 11, but just like the other 4 mentions of the 3 1/2 year period of time, they are START in chapters 11-13, but END near the 7th vial. Sorry, but you are ad libbing again: NO scriptural connection to the fire from the first three trumpets and the fire from the two witnesses. They will still be in heaven during the first three trumpets. Do you have any concept of John's TIMING? If the two witnesses were testifying then, John would have written their appearance before the first trumpet. He did not. they SHOW UP SUDDENLY on earth in 11:2 which will be just 3 1/2 days before the exact midpoint. Here you go, rearranging again - trying to FORCE the two witnesses back in time. John shows them showing up after the first 6 trumpets. They will still be in heaven during these first 6 trumpets. The trumpets are sounded by ANGELS. Do you imagine the two witnesses (men just like you and I) command these angels? Hardly! Angels listen to the voice of God and do HIS bidding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamlamad Posted March 6, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 8,272 Content Per Day: 2.08 Reputation: 689 Days Won: 4 Joined: 06/09/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted March 6, 2017 Inchrist wrote, Where are the idols utterly abolished in the 6th seal? NO one ever said he would destroy all the idols at the 6th seal. Your understanding of the Day of the Lord is faulty. It will go one for the entire 70th week and then on past that. There will be plenty of time for God to destroy the idols. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMatrixHasU71 Posted March 6, 2017 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 21 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,573 Content Per Day: 0.51 Reputation: 723 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/10/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted March 6, 2017 On 05/01/2017 at 10:01 PM, Just a Mirror said: Let me add some numbers which you can do with what you will. Rosh Hoshana = Jewish Religious New Year = Feast of Trumpets = Pentecost 2016-2017 = 1 Rosh Hoshana in September 2017, 21-22, Th-Fr 2017-2018= 2 Rosh Hoshana in September 2018, 10-11, Mon-Tue 2018- 2019= 3 Rosh Hoshana in September/Oct 2019, 30-01, Mon-Tue March 26th 2020= 3.5; right after next election and inauguration in US. 2019-2020= 4 Rosh Hoshana in September 2020, 19-20, Sat-Sun 2020- 2021= 5 Rosh Hoshana in September 2021, 7-8, Tue-Wed 2021-2022= 6 Rosh Hoshana in September 2022, 26-27, Mon-Tue 2022-2023= 7 Rosh Hoshana in September 2023, 16-17, Sat-Sun 2024 Rosh Hoshana switches to Oct. DISCLAIMER: READING BELOW THIS LINE REQUIRES AN OPEN MIND TO CONTROVERSIAL SUBJECTS. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I will state here that the Rapture will happen, the catching up to be with Yeshua, will happen at the end of the 7 years. These things will happen before that day...... The Seals are the Seals of Time. The Times, Time, and half a time. Time is 7000yrs Times is two 3500yr periods 1/2 time is 1250 yrs But each Times is divided again, making it into its own week of 7 times, or one of the 3500yrs TIME is divided by 7 TIMES. Therefore The 3500yr TIMES, turns into its own TIME or it becomes its own week. It becomes its own week of seven 1250yr time periods and soo on each successive division becomes its own week of times. Think of it like a Pyramid, top teer is a 7, next teer is 2 3500 blocks, and soo on which the outside blocks on each teer are cutoff, due to the slope of the pyramid, which we could call mercy, or shortening of time/angling of a square block, cutting off some. Soo if you knew EXACTLY when we exist, knowing that 7000 is the end point, you could know through math the exact date at which past people existed, and also future people through Word and prophecy. Herein lies the problem, there seems to be a discrepancy in years, about 350 years, if we know the 1000 year reign of Christ is 1000 years, but its the last 1000 years, meaning At the end of the last final years their will be an apocalyptic war that ends this CREATION. That means that the 1000 year reign has to start around year 6000, but the Jews claim that this is year 5777, which means that we still have 233 years left before The Tribulation. Because creation has to end at the end of 7000 yrs, therefore the year 6000 has to be the beginning of the Reign of Christ, right? Soo you have two choices... 1- The Jews have time WRONG. 2-OR Mercy and the shortening of All Time, to ease suffering due to Sin puts at 5777. Which means say 5784 is the new 6000th year in the shortened 7000years. 323 years will have been removed from 7000 years due to Gods Mercy on Man. (maybe thats what 322 stands for in the masons?) Know of course you will say that TIME will be shortened IN THE END TIMES. But you must realize that one action by God echoes through all TIME, but also each individual TIME under the original TIME equally, meaning an action taken in say the first time period, will happen in all other time periods at the same exact time. That does not seem like the randomness of the reality we live in, which means variables are present which hinder or further time at , once again at a random time. Randomness is what we can call Chaos. UH-OH, look at that, that means that the fall of Lucifer caused Chaos BACK in to Creation. No Bueno. Therefore that means that before Lucifer's fall, Chaos was held back by The Creators Spirit, which wherever it goes Order is made manifest automatically. You see The Creator is apart of a much larger entity or body of The Unexplainable, for lack of a better word for the Totality of what we refer to as GOD. But back to Chaos, chaos is an act of opposition, to time. Now, when God created everything He created, perceived time was optimal, now since the fall of Lucifer, time has been altered due to an influence of the randomness of its presence in the system. Soo that means that God has to (in our perception) intervene in our lives through angels and faith in order to restore balance to Time. Which when it happens in our lives, its manifests as Love, Joy, Peace. Which when multiple people bring order into their lives, they reconcile time, and perfect time is where God resides. Those people make up The Time Keepers, The People, The Church, The Believers, we reside with God in His Time. You See? Soo Since this Creation has been corrupted by Chaos, this Creation will pass away, and be left desolate of The Presence forever. A New Creation will be started, you might look at it as moving into a new pool, a fresh start, what happens there is unknown. Back to my original point, when are we in Time? We are, where prophetic events say we are. We are strengthened by fulfillment of Prophecy even though we already believe. Soo if you want to know where we are in prophecy look around the world and match up the Signs with the Word. Then take the Word placement to work out the Time you are in and how close to the next Sign and ultimately His return. Leading to a Sequence of Operation, which tells you the Order of signs you will see in front of you. The Seals. They are Seals of Time, Each Seal is a quantity of Time. But also divided down they are seals of a small number of years, which in the bible are supposed to be 7. Yet it seems when you get to the Trumpets people seem to think they happen over the course of 7 years. which means We are not even close to the 5th trumpet soo you can stop with CERN opening a passage to the Bottomless pit, unless of course you see grass outside, which means the 1st trumpet has yet to sound. Soo you read through the chronological order of Signs and Yeshua returns AFTER the anti-christ and false prophet are already ruling earth. Basically Christ Returns to wipe out the World System and its leaders and its followers. That means What? That means The Reaping happens the same day, right before The Wrath starts. The WRATH of God is what we're saved from, not the Anti-Christ. The wedding supper of the Lamb constitutes The fulfillment of the number of the Martyrs, not a "raptured" Church. (9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: 10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? 11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellow servants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.) You see When the 5th seal was removed the Martyrs of old were there, waiting on the Martyrs to come out of the Tribulation. The seals are Periods of Time, In the 5th Seal of time the Martyrs are revealed to be waiting for more martyrs. But you may say "the one who restrains must be removed..." Short answer, Michael is the one who restrains, Daniel tells us so. (Daniel 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. 2And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.) Soo as we can see a resurrection takes place, but it does not speak of the living, but we assume that this reference is the Return of Christ, which is the beginning of Wrath. Soo Michael stands up because he no longer needs to protect the people because those people, Gods people, have been removed. All the Scriptures point to The anti-christs rule as pre-Wrath, its called The Tribulation of the Saints, not the tribulation of Lucifer. This period of time will see Believers of Christ martyred on a mass scale. If you somehow make it through, you will then be Taken up right before God wipes out everyone "Left Behind". The reason for the confusion is due to faulty teachers who have passed on a faulty teaching for soo long it seems to just be a fact now. Let me add this though, people INNOCENTLY believe, because it feels good, not because its true. Now let me add this..... Matthew 5: 19 "Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven." I am not breaking any commandments for teaching these things and you are not for believing what you do, but the Word reveals Order. I hope I have Given you something to think on. Acts 17:10 "And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews. 11These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. " God bless you and reveal to you the truth. Are we in year one of the final week? The answer is NO. That final week will not start till the antichrist ratifies the seven year "peace" treaty (Dan 9:27). The a/c hasn't even shown UP yet (and wont till after the Church is Raptured) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamlamad Posted March 6, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 8,272 Content Per Day: 2.08 Reputation: 689 Days Won: 4 Joined: 06/09/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted March 6, 2017 1 hour ago, inchrist said: Um... I dont know if you noticed but And I will give POWER unto MY 'TWO WITNESSES,' and they shall PROPHECY a THOUSAND TWO HUNDRED AND THREE-SCORE DAYS, clothed in sackcloth. These are the 'TWO OLIVE TREES' and the 'TWO CANDLESTICKS' Do you see that word POWER and PROPHECY? It is no wonder the people of the earth celebrate their death due to their power and prophecies associated with the trumpets. So yes they do have the authority given by God to prophecy and call on the trumpets. And I place their death and resurrection at the 7th trumpet....so where exactly Im I moving them backwards as you claim? What possible good would it do to explain? You wouldn't believe it anyway. Believe it or not, Revelation is written a perfect order, except for minor parenthesis that make sense where they are placed. 70th week begins with the 7th seal Trumpet 1 Trumpet 2 Trumpet 3 Trumpet 4 Trumpet 5 Trumpet 6 Intermission between 6th and 7th trumpet. Trumpet 6 is the last trumpet of the first half of the week so the time is approaching the midpoint. Chapter 10: who knows how much time there: part of the intermission. Chapter 11 begins when the man of sin enters Jerusalem. God knows the future and knows he will enter the temple and declare he is God. He arrives with his Gentile armies, who will then trample the Holy City for 42 months. So this is the first clue that John is right at the midpoint (give or take a few days) accurate by a monthly count: 42 months to go to the end of the week. Next, suddenly TWO WITNESS show up. Timing: They will suddenly appear (having come from heaven) just 3 1/2 days before the exact midpoint. Prior to this they have been in heaven, for many hundreds of years. My guess is they are Enoch and Elijah, the two men who never died (yet). Do you get the picture? By the time they arrive, the first 6 trumpet judgements are OVER, HISTORY, done with, so once more your theory fails. 3 1/2 days go by and the man of sin enters the temple and is an immediate ABOMINATION. The daily sacrifices will cease. The temple will have to be cleansed before more sacrifices can take place. MIDPOINT 7th trumpet sounds in heaven when the man of sin says "I am God." Those living in Judea begin to flee. At the same time, Michael goes after Satan to cast Him down. At the same time, Satan goes after those fleeing. Does he use the Beast at this point? Who knows? Satan fails to get those who have fled, for God will protect them. So Satan goes after the remnant of her offspring, CHRISTIANS who love Jesus. Some unknown time later, the False prophet shows up. Rev 14, and 15 take place 3 1/2 days before the end, the two witnesses are killed. 3 1/2 days later, they rise from the dead, probably with all the Old Testament saints that will rise at the 7th vial. The week is finished. Jesus has not returned yet. The marriage and supper take place in heaven. Jesus descends with his armies of angels and the Bride of Christ. Battle of armageddon, and Rev. 19 is finished. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel 11:36 Posted March 9, 2017 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,957 Content Per Day: 0.56 Reputation: 295 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/17/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted March 9, 2017 Jesus is already exalted now .... and once the "church" of both Jew and Gentile are made immortal He will then bring the coming tribulation beginning in Revelation 6:12-17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamlamad Posted March 9, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 8,272 Content Per Day: 2.08 Reputation: 689 Days Won: 4 Joined: 06/09/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted March 9, 2017 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Daniel 11:36 said: Jesus is already exalted now .... and once the "church" of both Jew and Gentile are made immortal He will then bring the coming tribulation beginning in Revelation 6:12-17 I don't think so: I believe the resurrection of the Old Testament saints will come at the 7th vial earthquake. since the 7th vial ends the 70th week, they will be resurrected after the days of great tribulation. Edited March 9, 2017 by iamlamad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamlamad Posted March 9, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 8,272 Content Per Day: 2.08 Reputation: 689 Days Won: 4 Joined: 06/09/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted March 9, 2017 inchrist wrote Quote 3 1/2 days go by and the man of sin enters the temple and is an immediate ABOMINATION. The daily sacrifices will cease. The temple will have to be cleansed before more sacrifices can take place. By then you have already claimed your raptured by the 6th/ 7th seal It is true. It is not what I am claiming, it is what the bible teaches. Why is it we can read the same scripture and come up with different theories? Which is impossible according to Paul and Christ No, it is not. Paul "That day shall not come unless there come a falling away first..." How many times have we been over this? The departure of the church is what allows the man of sin to be revealed, as shown in verse 3. You have never acknowledged that the man of sin IS REVEALED in 3b. Well, it is true anyway. Jesus "Then they will deliver you to tribulation, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations on account of My name. And at that time many will fall away and will deliver up one another and hate one another. And many false prophets will arise, and will mislead many. And because lawlessness is increased, most people's love will grow cold. But the one who endures to the end, he shall be saved." Not the church! We don't go to synagogues! These scriptures are pointed at the Jews. This was a Jewish prophet (the messiah) telling Jewish men about the end of THEIR age: i.e. the 70th week of Daniel. (it is NOT the 70th week of Paul.) Paul ...and the Man of Sin be revealed, the son of perdition.... who sitteth in the Temple of God, showing himself that he is God." Yes, he WILL do this and he is revealed to do this in 2 thes, 2:3. Why there? Because the Holy Spirit - the one restraining - will be removed with the church that is raptured. Suddenly the Holy Spirit will have no church to work through in restraining the man of sin and the spirit of antichrist. Jesus "When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand):" [Matt. 24:15] It will be the man of sin entering into the Holy of Holies in the temple. Paul tells us this. And this event will STOP the daily sacrifices and will divide the week - the ENTIRE week - into two equal halves. Here we have Christ and Paul refuting any form of pre tribulation. Only in your mind, not in any kind of reality. The rapture cannot occur until after the signs occur that Jesus gave to His disciples in the Olivet Discourse. Which Paul, an apostle to the gentiles quotes. But you do contradict yourself much. No, it is only in your imagination. You see, it all depends on how you read scripture. You take scriptures that are pointed to the Jews and attempt to apply them to the church. No wonder we disagree! There are scriptures pointed to the church, others pointed to the nations, and others still pointed to the Jews. I think you try to mix them all up! Our differences all come down to HOW we read scripture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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