Guest Posted May 18, 2017 Share Posted May 18, 2017 1 minute ago, Enoch2021 said: So you can't SUPPORT your claims. 1. How do you know that?? Do you have Special Mind Powers that I'm unaware of... that you can discern what will/will not change my mind? 2. I'm admonished to: (1 Thessalonians 5:21) "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." So SUPPORT your Claim...? It's not a difficult concept to understand. I can find many different things 'online'...it doesn't make them TRUE. And it's NOT "MY" Job to SUPPORT "YOUR" Claims!! Translation: I can't SUPPORT my Claims. regards Yes I can support my claims. I've done the research myself. The point you keep missing here is that it's as waste of time. You've already made up your mind so believe whatever you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enoch2021 Posted May 18, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 11 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,396 Content Per Day: 0.90 Reputation: 730 Days Won: 4 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/26/1963 Share Posted May 18, 2017 54 minutes ago, Allroses48 said: Yes I can support my claims. Well go ahead...? Quote I've done the research myself. We're waiting. Quote The point you keep missing here is that it's as waste of time. So your research is a Waste of Time? Quote You've already made up your mind so believe whatever you want. WoW!! Alright, let's TEST your Blind Conjecture "guessing" Acumen; What's my Favorite Color? regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted May 19, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.23 Reputation: 9,762 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted May 19, 2017 The nastiness has to stop or I will start banning people from this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justme007 Posted May 19, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 140 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 47 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/07/2016 Status: Offline Author Share Posted May 19, 2017 (edited) On 5/17/2017 at 9:49 PM, Enoch2021 said: How many? Why? Post the Scriptures...? We're gonna see. regards How many, why: One more or less well know person is Hugh Ross. Look him up on YouTube. I do not like some of the things he has to say, in particular the things he says about animals - that is cruel and goes in contradiction with: the very last verse of Jonah, Proverbs 12:10 and other Scriptures. Back to the subject: I just typed "Hugh Ross old earth" and "old earth vs new earth creationism" into the YouTube search. A lot of interesting videos came up. Post the Scriptures: 1) 2 Peter 3:8. That's one I could think of right now. Here the issue is addressed directly. 2) There are many Scriptures that could indicate in general that when we think that something has to be interpreted literally it turns out that the meaning was symbolic. One example i could think of at the moment is Malachi 4:5-6 combined with Mathew 17:10-13. Here is something we should remember: young or old earth, literally or symbolically, we must always remember that The Bible is true! We should never let any justification of doubt to enter our hearts. We should diligently study the Scriptures every day. We should study the world around us in order to advance our spiritual growth. In fact, whatever we do in general should be done for the only purpose of worship and spiritual growth. Never doubt! Remember Deuteronomy 13 - pay special attention to the first 4 verses of the chapter, as well as examine it as a whole. Edited May 19, 2017 by justme007 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enoch2021 Posted May 19, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 11 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,396 Content Per Day: 0.90 Reputation: 730 Days Won: 4 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/26/1963 Share Posted May 19, 2017 3 hours ago, justme007 said: How many, why: One more or less well know person is Hugh Ross. This makes no sense to me. Quote Look him up on YouTube. I'm quite familiar with his shenanigans. Quote Post the Scriptures: 1) 2 Peter 3:8. That's one I could think of right now. (2 Peter 3:8) "But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day." This is a Simile (Rhetorical Device). This Passage is speaking to God's "Timelessness"; it has nothing to do with the Age of the Earth. Quote Here is something we should remember: young or old earth, literally or symbolically, we must always remember that The Bible is true! We should never let any justification of doubt to enter our hearts. We should diligently study the Scriptures every day. Yes of course. Quote Never doubt! Thanks, I don't. Quote Remember Deuteronomy 13 - pay special attention to the first 4 verses of the chapter, as well as examine it as a whole. (Deuteronomy 13:1-4) "If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder, {2} And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them; {3} Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the LORD your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul. {4} Ye shall walk after the LORD your God, and fear him, and keep his commandments, and obey his voice, and ye shall serve him, and cleave unto him." Ok, Do you wish to speak to something here? regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justme007 Posted May 20, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 140 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 47 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/07/2016 Status: Offline Author Share Posted May 20, 2017 10 hours ago, Enoch2021 said: This makes no sense to me. I'm quite familiar with his shenanigans. (2 Peter 3:8) "But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day." This is a Simile (Rhetorical Device). This Passage is speaking to God's "Timelessness"; it has nothing to do with the Age of the Earth. Yes of course. Thanks, I don't. (Deuteronomy 13:1-4) "If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder, {2} And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them; {3} Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the LORD your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul. {4} Ye shall walk after the LORD your God, and fear him, and keep his commandments, and obey his voice, and ye shall serve him, and cleave unto him." Ok, Do you wish to speak to something here? regards What I wanted to say about Deuteronomy 13:1-4 was that we should treat the ideas of atheism and all similar things, evolution etc, the same way as words of false prophets and dreams of false dreamers mentioned in these verses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 20, 2017 Share Posted May 20, 2017 38 minutes ago, justme007 said: What I wanted to say about Deuteronomy 13:1-4 was that we should treat the ideas of atheism and all similar things, evolution etc, the same way as words of false prophets and dreams of false dreamers mentioned in these verses. Atheism and evolution make a lot more sense than the young earth theory. At least they have science on their side regarding an old earth. The only part they have wrong is intelligent design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 20, 2017 Share Posted May 20, 2017 This is an article on deep core tests of the earth proving that our planet is very old: http://www.reasons.org/articles/deep-core-tests-for-the-age-of-the-earth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justme007 Posted May 21, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 140 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 47 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/07/2016 Status: Offline Author Share Posted May 21, 2017 About the age of the Earth: The point I was trying to make is that whatever the age of the Earth is, we should never doubt The Bible! Therefore, either the verses that talk about days of creation are symbolic and the Earth is old and The Bible is true, or those verses are literal and the Earth is young and The Bible is true! in either case The Bible is true! we shouldn't let the doubt in our hearts ever! the age of the Earth could be looked at as a puzzle to solve, a test of faith, but never as a reason to doubt! we should never doubt! Something i wanted to say in addition: the reason i started posting is because i have done a lot of thinking and realized some things. i mean the things i started writing about, about disproving the evolution as we know it or disproving the possibility of non organic matter turning into living cells on its own. i want to add that it was not my intention to insult or confront anyone of you, brothers and sisters. what i want to do is what Matthew 25:27 says, that is my intention. i would like to start more threads about the topic soon. i just need some time to think and word them properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enoch2021 Posted May 21, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 11 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,396 Content Per Day: 0.90 Reputation: 730 Days Won: 4 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/26/1963 Share Posted May 21, 2017 On 5/20/2017 at 3:31 AM, Allroses48 said: Atheism and evolution make a lot more sense than the young earth theory. 1. a. 'evolution' What's that...?? Define evolution...? b. Post the Scientific Theory of evolution...? c. Post just TWO Formal Scientific Hypotheses then Experiments that concretized it into a REAL Scientific Theory...? d. Post the Null Hypotheses that were Rejected/Falsified for each...? e. Highlight The Independent Variables used in Each TEST...? 2. Atheism: It's Blind/Deaf/Willfully Dumb and "Scientifically Falsified" 'Religion: (Philosophical Naturalism/Realism, aka: atheism). Religion: 'Belief without Evidence'. Realism: "the viewpoint which accords to things which are known or perceived an existence or nature which is independent of whether anyone is thinking about or perceiving them." https://www.britannica.com/topic/realism-philosophy They have some *BIG* Problems. Namely, being in DIRECT CONTRADICTION to literally Thousands of Experiments ("Science") Without Exception!! ... "The doctrine that the world is made up of objects whose existence is independent of human consciousness *[Philosophical Naturalism/Realism -- aka: atheism] turns out to be IN CONFLICT with QUANTUM MECHANICS and with facts established BY EXPERIMENT." Bernard d'Espagnat (Particle Physicist): The Quantum Theory and Reality; Scientific American, 1979, p. 151. https://www.scientificamerican.com/media/pdf/197911_0158.pdf That is: "Matter" (Our Reality) doesn't exist without, FIRST: A "Knower"/Existence of the "Which-Path" Information. In other words, "Matter"/Light is derivative (The Consequent), Information/Knowledge is Primary (Necessary Antecedent). According to Niels Bohr, Werner Heisenberg, Max Born, described by Erwin Schrodinger, THEN... Validated Repeatedly via Thousands of "EXPERIMENTS" without Exception for the past 100 years with the most successful branch of Physics in the History of "Actual" Science, Quantum Mechanics... : Independent of the KNOWLEDGE of the "Which-Path Information" -- or of it EXISTING... particles (Photons, All Elementary Particles, Atoms, Molecules) have no defined properties or location. They exist in a state of "A Wave Function" which is a series of Potentialities rather than actual objects. That is, "Matter" doesn't exist as a Wave of Energy prior to knowledge but as a Wave of Potentialities. Wave "Functions" aren't "WAVES"(Classical Peak/Troughs) they are "Potentialities" i.e., Probabilities, they have no Mass/Energy. To put it another way, the "Wave" of a Wave Function is not a "Wave" in "Physical Space", it's merely an abstract mathematical construct. Every double-slit experiment, 2) Every delayed choice experiment, 3) Every quantum eraser experiment, 4) Every experiment that combines any of 1,2,3 show exactly the same results - if the 'Which-Path' Information is known or can be known - No Interference (Matter Existing); Conversely, if the 'which-path' Information is not known and can't ever be known, there is Interference (No Matter). Experiments: Which one of the Thousands (Without Exception !!) would you like?? Let's make it quick... To overturn the Scientific Falsification of "Locality" and by direct proxy -- Philosophical Naturalism/Realism (atheism); whereby invalidating Idealism "Christianity" (which is not a "religion", btw) and as an ancillary benefit collect yourself a 'Feather in your Cap' Nobel Prize... Please take up the Quantum Randi Challenge (arXiv:1207.5294, 23 July 2012) https://arxiv.org/abs/1207.5294 http://www.science20.com/alpha_meme/official_quantum_randi_challenge-80168 .... ( "The Quantum Randi Challenge, hence forth QRC, challenges any pseudo-scientist *[ YOU, as it were ]* who claims that quantum physics is not true and that quantum entanglement experiments can be explained by a classically realistic and locally causal model." https://arxiv.org/vc/arxiv/papers/1207/1207.5294v1.pdf A Nobel Prize AND $1,000,000(USD) is being offered: All you have to do is... Prove Naive Realism or Local Realism is True and not Observation Dependent. 4 Years + and still no takers, I wonder why? Alice in Wonderland has more veracity and is more tenable than atheism. Quote At least they have science on their side regarding an old earth. Crocheting has more "Science" than: evolution, atheism, an old earth... COMBINED !!! Quote young earth theory It's not a 'theory'. "Scientific Theories": "Explain" --- The How/WHY (mechanisms/process) and Identify The CAUSE; e.g., Germ Theory. Scientific Theories are the Result of Validated/Confirmed Scientific Hypotheses that have been rigorously TESTED. Young Earth (or Old Earth) is in the "What/Is" Genre. Moreover, Any 5th Grade General Science Graduate knows Prima Facia, that ALL "Dating Methods" are outside the Purview of The Scientific Method, for goodness sakes. You have NO....: "Independent Variable", so as to Form a Valid Scientific Hypothesis to TEST then VALIDATE your PREDICTION. Ahhh... "SCIENCE" ! 1. Ya See, "Independent Variables" are the "Input" (The Cause) that is CHANGED -- "Manipulated/Varied by the scientist" so as to measure/validate the "Output" (The Effect) "Dependent Variables"--- Predictions. 2. "Independent Variables" are sine qua non (indispensable, as it were) to Scientific Hypothesis construction, then Ipso Facto Experiments!! So can you please elaborate: How on Earth can you CHANGE the "INPUT" and TEST your Prediction on a Past Event without a Time Machine, Pray Tell....? You're in a simple Category Error. The Scientific Method is used to Validate "Cause and Effect" Relationships...it's Non Sequitur (Fallacy) to use it to Extrapolate "Age"....of ANYTHING !! It's tantamount to using a Framing Square to calculate the GNP of the Netherlands. Quote This is an article on deep core tests of the earth proving that our planet is very old: http://www.reasons.org/articles/deep-core-tests-for-the-age-of-the-earth Really?? a. Pull then post the Formal Scientific Hypothesis from your 'link' here then the Experiment that validates your claim...? b. Highlight the Independent Variable...? c. Post The Null Hypothesis that was Rejected/Falsified...? regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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