Fran C Posted January 14, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 337 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 214 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/11/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted January 14, 2017 12 minutes ago, shiloh357 said: The Message is NOT a Bible. The Message is a paraphrase and not a very good one. There is nothing about any formal translation that a young person cannot grasp and understand. I know 10 year-olds who quote from the KJV and can tell you what the verse means, so I don't think we need to dumb things down for young people. We can each have our own opiion Shiloh. No problem. I taught kids religion for years and I'm basing what I'm saying on MY experiences - yours could be different. By the way, I know ADULTS that have trouble understanding a REAL bible. And The Message IS a bible. It tells the story of God's reveaions to man from Genesis to Revelation. It tells of the beginning and of the history of Israel and its people. It tells of salvation economy and what God expects from us and how to get to heaven. I'd say that IS a bible. Fran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fran C Posted January 14, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 337 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 214 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/11/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted January 14, 2017 9 minutes ago, Yowm said: After scouring dozens of sources from Commentaries, Greek and English I found only a simple variation... Alx/Byz[another will gird you], Minor[others will gird you (NET, NLT, TLB)]; Alx/Byz[carry you], Minor[carry you away]. (Comprehensive New Testament Notes, Edited by T. E. Clontz & J. Clontz, Clewiston, Florida,Cornerstone Publications ...but nothing that throws doubt about the authenticity of the verse itself. Hi Yown. I'm smiling right now!! You don't know how happy this has made me. I've Always loved that verse so much and could even imagine Jesus saying the words. I can't tell you how much I appreciate what you did for me. Thank you, dear Brother in the Lord. Fran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ezra Posted January 14, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 134 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 8,142 Content Per Day: 2.35 Reputation: 6,612 Days Won: 20 Joined: 11/02/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted January 14, 2017 6 hours ago, Fran C said: What does interest me is additions to the bible. For instance, I learned years ago that one of my favorite scriptures MAY HAVE been added on at a later date and not written by John. Could you comment on this if you're familiar with it? John 21:18 I don't know where you got this information but there is absolutely no doubt that John 21:18 is genuine Scripture. Both the critical texts and the Textus Receptus have this verse. CRITICAL TEXTS (use corrupted manuscripts) Nestle Greek New Testament 1904ἀμὴν ἀμὴν λέγω σοι, ὅτε ἦς νεώτερος, ἐζώννυες σεαυτὸν καὶ περιεπάτεις ὅπου ἤθελες· ὅταν δὲ γηράσῃς, ἐκτενεῖς τὰς χεῖράς σου, καὶ ἄλλος ζώσει σε καὶ οἴσει ὅπου οὐ θέλεις. Westcott and Hort 1881ἀμὴν ἀμὴν λέγω σοι, ὅτε ἦς νεώτερος, ἐζώννυες σεαυτὸν καὶ περιεπάτεις ὅπου ἤθελες· ὅταν δὲ γηράσῃς, ἐκτενεῖς τὰς χεῖράς σου, καὶ ἄλλος ζώσει σε καὶ οἴσει ὅπου οὐ θέλεις. TEXTUS RECEPTUS (traditional texts as in KJV) Scrivener's Textus Receptus 1894ἀμὴν ἀμὴν λέγω σοι, ὅτε ἦς νεώτερος, ἐζώννυες σεαυτόν, καὶ περιεπάτεις ὅπου ἤθελες· ὅταν δὲ γηράσῃς, ἐκτενεῖς τὰς χεῖράς σου, καὶ ἄλλος σε ζώσει, καὶ οἴσει ὅπου οὐ θέλεις. Stephanus Textus Receptus 1550ἀμὴν ἀμὴν λέγω σοι ὅτε ἦς νεώτερος ἐζώννυες σεαυτὸν καὶ περιεπάτεις ὅπου ἤθελες· ὅταν δὲ γηράσῃς ἐκτενεῖς τὰς χεῖράς σου καὶ ἄλλος σε ζώσει καὶ οἴσει ὅπου οὐ θέλεις So this should tell you that there is a lot of FAKE NEWS floating around regarding manuscripts and versions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ezra Posted January 14, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 134 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 8,142 Content Per Day: 2.35 Reputation: 6,612 Days Won: 20 Joined: 11/02/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted January 14, 2017 7 minutes ago, Fran C said: And The Message IS a bible. For a Bible to be a genuine Bible, it cannot be a paraphrase. The actual words from the genuine Hebrew and Greek traditional texts must be faithfully represented, and any helping words by the translators must be clearly identified (see the KJV). So a paraphrase such as The Message (and many others) should have been clearly identified as paraphrases. However, translators got so used to playing fast and loose with the Bible that they forgot what God expects, and has stated very clearly -- no tampering with the text. Why? Because EVERY WORD in critical. "Every word of God is pure..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted January 14, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 598 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,128 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,856 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted January 14, 2017 21 minutes ago, Ezra said: For a Bible to be a genuine Bible, it cannot be a paraphrase. The actual words from the genuine Hebrew and Greek traditional texts must be faithfully represented, and any helping words by the translators must be clearly identified (see the KJV). So a paraphrase such as The Message (and many others) should have been clearly identified as paraphrases. However, translators got so used to playing fast and loose with the Bible that they forgot what God expects, and has stated very clearly -- no tampering with the text. Why? Because EVERY WORD in critical. "Every word of God is pure..." I've always looked at them as complete commentaries.... using modern english to put over those things that just don't really translate well. neither good or bad for reading really, but not acceptable for making doctrine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fran C Posted January 14, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 337 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 214 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/11/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted January 14, 2017 34 minutes ago, Ezra said: I don't know where you got this information but there is absolutely no doubt that Mark 21:18 is genuine Scripture. Both the critical texts and the Textus Receptus have this verse. CRITICAL TEXTS (use corrupted manuscripts) Nestle Greek New Testament 1904ἀμὴν ἀμὴν λέγω σοι, ὅτε ἦς νεώτερος, ἐζώννυες σεαυτὸν καὶ περιεπάτεις ὅπου ἤθελες· ὅταν δὲ γηράσῃς, ἐκτενεῖς τὰς χεῖράς σου, καὶ ἄλλος ζώσει σε καὶ οἴσει ὅπου οὐ θέλεις. Westcott and Hort 1881ἀμὴν ἀμὴν λέγω σοι, ὅτε ἦς νεώτερος, ἐζώννυες σεαυτὸν καὶ περιεπάτεις ὅπου ἤθελες· ὅταν δὲ γηράσῃς, ἐκτενεῖς τὰς χεῖράς σου, καὶ ἄλλος ζώσει σε καὶ οἴσει ὅπου οὐ θέλεις. TEXTUS RECEPTUS (traditional texts as in KJV) Scrivener's Textus Receptus 1894ἀμὴν ἀμὴν λέγω σοι, ὅτε ἦς νεώτερος, ἐζώννυες σεαυτόν, καὶ περιεπάτεις ὅπου ἤθελες· ὅταν δὲ γηράσῃς, ἐκτενεῖς τὰς χεῖράς σου, καὶ ἄλλος σε ζώσει, καὶ οἴσει ὅπου οὐ θέλεις. Stephanus Textus Receptus 1550ἀμὴν ἀμὴν λέγω σοι ὅτε ἦς νεώτερος ἐζώννυες σεαυτὸν καὶ περιεπάτεις ὅπου ἤθελες· ὅταν δὲ γηράσῃς ἐκτενεῖς τὰς χεῖράς σου καὶ ἄλλος σε ζώσει καὶ οἴσει ὅπου οὐ θέλεις So this should tell you that there is a lot of FAKE NEWS floating around regarding manuscripts and versions. Ezra, Perché scrivi sempre in Greco. Non tutti lo capiscono e non lo dovresti fare. Other than that, Dio ti benedica. I truly appreciate this post!! Blessings, Fran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fran C Posted January 14, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 337 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 214 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/11/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted January 14, 2017 (edited) 34 minutes ago, Ezra said: For a Bible to be a genuine Bible, it cannot be a paraphrase. The actual words from the genuine Hebrew and Greek traditional texts must be faithfully represented, and any helping words by the translators must be clearly identified (see the KJV). So a paraphrase such as The Message (and many others) should have been clearly identified as paraphrases. However, translators got so used to playing fast and loose with the Bible that they forgot what God expects, and has stated very clearly -- no tampering with the text. Why? Because EVERY WORD in critical. "Every word of God is pure..." Ezra! it IS clearly identified as a paraphrase! I'm all for having as many people as possible read the bible IN ANY FORM. Are we to do away with The Living Bible, The Good News Bible, what about the NIV? That has changed some wording around to. I say: Let's get as many people as possible TO READ THE BIBLE!! Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God!! Fran Edited January 14, 2017 by Fran C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fran C Posted January 14, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 337 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 214 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/11/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted January 14, 2017 41 minutes ago, Ezra said: I don't know where you got this information but there is absolutely no doubt that Mark 21:18 is genuine Scripture. Both the critical texts and the Textus Receptus have this verse. CRITICAL TEXTS (use corrupted manuscripts) Nestle Greek New Testament 1904ἀμὴν ἀμὴν λέγω σοι, ὅτε ἦς νεώτερος, ἐζώννυες σεαυτὸν καὶ περιεπάτεις ὅπου ἤθελες· ὅταν δὲ γηράσῃς, ἐκτενεῖς τὰς χεῖράς σου, καὶ ἄλλος ζώσει σε καὶ οἴσει ὅπου οὐ θέλεις. Westcott and Hort 1881ἀμὴν ἀμὴν λέγω σοι, ὅτε ἦς νεώτερος, ἐζώννυες σεαυτὸν καὶ περιεπάτεις ὅπου ἤθελες· ὅταν δὲ γηράσῃς, ἐκτενεῖς τὰς χεῖράς σου, καὶ ἄλλος ζώσει σε καὶ οἴσει ὅπου οὐ θέλεις. TEXTUS RECEPTUS (traditional texts as in KJV) Scrivener's Textus Receptus 1894ἀμὴν ἀμὴν λέγω σοι, ὅτε ἦς νεώτερος, ἐζώννυες σεαυτόν, καὶ περιεπάτεις ὅπου ἤθελες· ὅταν δὲ γηράσῃς, ἐκτενεῖς τὰς χεῖράς σου, καὶ ἄλλος σε ζώσει, καὶ οἴσει ὅπου οὐ θέλεις. Stephanus Textus Receptus 1550ἀμὴν ἀμὴν λέγω σοι ὅτε ἦς νεώτερος ἐζώννυες σεαυτὸν καὶ περιεπάτεις ὅπου ἤθελες· ὅταν δὲ γηράσῃς ἐκτενεῖς τὰς χεῖράς σου καὶ ἄλλος σε ζώσει καὶ οἴσει ὅπου οὐ θέλεις So this should tell you that there is a lot of FAKE NEWS floating around regarding manuscripts and versions. By the way, I DID notice that every version is exactly the same... Thanks again Brother. Fran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted January 14, 2017 Share Posted January 14, 2017 1 hour ago, Fran C said: We can each have our own opiion Shiloh. No problem. I taught kids religion for years and I'm basing what I'm saying on MY experiences - yours could be different. By the way, I know ADULTS that have trouble understanding a REAL bible. And The Message IS a bible. It tells the story of God's reveaions to man from Genesis to Revelation. It tells of the beginning and of the history of Israel and its people. It tells of salvation economy and what God expects from us and how to get to heaven. I'd say that IS a bible. Fran The reason adults have a hard time has nothing to do with translations The Message is a paraphrase. That means it is not a translation, and thus NOT a Bible. A paraphrase is just one man putting the Bible in his own words, meaning you're getting one's man's theology, not a Bible translation, not the pure Word of God. People need the Bible, not a paraphrase of it. I am sorry, but this not an opinion, it is fact. It precisely because people use paraphrases that they don't know what the Bible teaches. Paraphrases only dumb people down and keep them away from the Word of God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted January 14, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 598 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,128 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,856 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted January 14, 2017 49 minutes ago, Fran C said: Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God!! Fran I would recommend mp3 format spoken by Alexander Scorby.. I agree that people need to hear the Word as well as read through it. The mind processes it differently than reading. btw did I tell you that I really like your avatar... gives me a smile every time I see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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