"All Believers Taken" In The Pre-Tribulation Rapture is a False Teaching!

[Just a Mirror]

1 hour ago, Marcus O'Reillius said:

Did Noah get "saved" in the midst of disaster as in getting a life preserver thrown to him?
- or had God made provisions well ahead of time so that Noah would be able to escape His Wrath?

The latter.  God had Noah build the Ark years before the first raindrop ever fell to earth.

And for what you would say of Noah from the Olivet Discourse, also has to fit Lot because of both of them are mentioned in Luke:

Luke 17:26-30 “And just as it happened in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of Man: they were eating, they were drinking, they were marrying, they were being given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all. It was the same as happened in the days of Lot: they were eating, they were drinking, they were buying, they were selling, they were planting, they were building; but on the day that Lot went out from Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven and destroyed them all. It will be just the same on the day that the Son of Man is revealed."

In both cases, God's Wrath "rained down" on the wicked.
In both cases, God had made provisions to rescue them before His Wrath fell.

They were both removed from the deadly situation by God's Hand.
However you want to state a rule for what happened to Noah also has to fit Lot.

And it will be just the same on the Day that the Son of Man is revealed and gathers us up in the Rapture.

Okay, It will be peaceful finally cause they killed and chased all the Christians and religious types off and all who are left our the ones who took the mark. Thats what they say will bring peace, no religious folk or at least no competition between religions.

 

[iamlamad]

9 hours ago, Sister said:

Hello iamlamad.

There are two prophesies here.

Revelation 11:1   And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.

  Revelation 11:2   But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

Verse 1 is speaking about worshipers of God in general.  Those who worship God in spirit and in truth are individuals who are spread across the whole earth.  They exist in the last days and God has them numbered, (they are the minority of the saints).  At the altar is where the sacrifices are made symbolically, and these at the temple (very close to God)  have not made animal sacrifices, but sacrifices of the heart       (1 Peter 2:5).  They have repented sincerely and completely, and their sacrifices are accepted. (rev 3:10), (2 timothy 2:20-21)

I disagree.  This is speaking of the temple (still to be built) in Jerusalem. Who will be worshiping in that temple? Jews. Not believers from around the world. And verse 2 is on the same subject: the Jewish temple in Jerusalem, but this time the court is mentioned.  I don't believe you have captured the real intent of the Holy Spirit when He caused John to write.  You are doing a lot of ad libbing, and I don't think it is at all what the intent of the Author was.

Who are the worshipers? Common sense tells us JEWS.

Who is doing the trampling? Gentiles who are only allowed into the court outside.

What is this passage leading up to?  It is leading up to the abomination: from Paul when the man of sin (who will become the Antichrist Beast)  will enter the temple and declare he is God.  John did not see this happen, so did not write of it. Jesus told us that the moment they see this abomination, they are to flee. John saw the fleeing, in 12:6. I challenge you: back up verse by verse from 12:6 and try to find an event that might be the "marker" for the abomination event.

When God began teaching me Revelation, I was just minding my own business, reading Daniel 9:27. When my mind got to the word "midst" God spoke: I heard His voice and His words. He said, "you could find that exact midpoint 'clearly marked' in the book of Revelation. I asked Him how I would find it and He answered: "Every time I mentioned an event that would begin at the midpoint and go to the end of the week, I always included the 3 1/2 year period of time. When you find the mentions of this period of time, you will be very close to the exact midpoint. In fact, you could find the entire 70th week 'clearly marked.'"

I found what He sent me to find: the midpoint is "marked" by the 7th trumpet. The beginning is marked by the 7th seal, and the end is marked by the 7th vial. God used the 7's as markers.

So when I know that the man of sin (who will turn into the Antichrist Beast) must be in Jerusalem in a few days, I know that he MUST enter Jerusalem so he will be there to enter the temple: this is just basic logic. Therefore I think the intent of the Author is that when suddenly the court and the city will be trampled, SOMETHING CHANGED. In other words, the city was NOT being trampled the day before. What changed? The Beast man of sin arrived with Gentile armies. (According to Daniel, he will defeat 3 kings by this time. I think he will arrive in Jerusalem with armies. Dare I say it? I think they will be Muslim armies.

Next, John tells us another sudden event, that was not the same a moment before: the arrival of the two witnesses. Make no mistake here: they arrive the moment in time John mentions them. WHY did they arrive at this moment in time? They were sent by God to arrive in Jerusalem because the BEAST has just arrived in Jerusalem. WHEN will they arrive? John tells us: they come just 3 1/2 days before the man of sin will enter the temple. They will begin their testimony, and testify for 1260 days, which will take them to exactly 3 1/2 days before the 7th vial ends the week. They will lay dead for those 3 1/2 days and rise up on the 7th vial - when I believe the Old Testament saints arise.

So it seems the man of sin with his Gentile armies will arrive in Jerusalem 3 1/2 days before he enters the temple and declares he is God.

God and John are MOST CERTAINLY speaking of the physical temple that will soon be built in Jerusalem. Please don't try to spiritualize verses that God meant to be taken literal!

 

 

 

 

[iamlamad]

10 hours ago, Sister said:

Hello iamlamad.

...

Now the holy City is Jerusalem.  The King of the North and his armies (the 10 kings), are not Muslem nations, but European.  These will attack Jerusalem and this is how the 3 1/2 yr tribulation will start off (Jer 25:29, Jer 1:14, 4:16, 6:22, 10:22, 13:20, 46:20, 24, 50:3, 9, 41, 48). 

Israel will be occupied, and the False Prophet gets his entrance into Israel.  He will not treat them kind, but will be fierce and oppressive, just like it was in Egypt.  He will make them build his temple, not for their true Messiah, but for him.  They will have the two witnesses there in Jerusalem revealing the False Prophet, and this beast system.  They will get a good telling off, but get to hear truth (Rev 11:3) Israel will learn that they have been duped, and double crossed, but not all, only the remnants chosen will heed.  Then at the end of the tribulation, the Medes (King of the East and his allies), the muslem nations will come in to Israel to war the King of the North (The False prophet and the beast).  This war is cut short, and then Armageddon.

 

The abomination of desolation is when the false prophet has achieved everything he set out to do.  He persecuted all the saints, conquered lands, then kills the two witnesses at the end of their 1260 day ministry, .... then he sits in the temple and declares himself God.  His end is very close now, because even though he sits there proudly, his end comes quickly, and that's when the Medes stand up to him and invade Israel to war (Jer 51:11,  & Isaiah whole chapter 13, Rev 16:12 also called the Kings of the East, these are the Medes)  That war will not last long. 45 days later, the Lord will come (Dan 12:11-12)

 

The temple that God is talking about is not the temple made with man's hands,...the false prophets temple,  but that spiritual temple we are all required to serve at...Christ (John 2:19) .  This same temple should be in our hearts where Christ will dwell if it is kept clean.  If he is in our heart and put there first, then we are serving at the altar.  You cannot get any closer than that of the heart.

Please ask if you need any more scriptures to verify anything.

You are too far off from reality to even bother to comment. It would require a book. But I must comment a little. May I suggest you just follow John's chronology in Revelation? If you do that, you will be much better off.  Case in point: the abomination MUST come before Rev. 12: 6, for they are fleeing just as Jesus TOLD them to flee, because they have seen the abomination.  Daniel told us the abomination will be what divides the week into two equal halves.  Next, if you picture the great image of Daniel 2, Babylon, Medo-persia, Greece, Rome, then the feet and toes of iron and clay for the end times in which we live, all of these ancient empires controlled Israel. And today the land area of these empires are all MUSLIM nations. Daniel told us that the ROCK will strike the image on the toes, and then grind the entire image to dust. This means, not only did this image represent the ancient empires, but it also is a picture of TODAY.  Israel is surrounded by Islamic nations.

Israel is going to build another temple. They will do it in good faith, believing it will be God's temple as before. And they will truly worship the God of Abraham in that temple.  God will not be angry with them for doing so, for His plan is to prove to them that JESUS is their Messiah. When He finally comes in Power, as seen in Rev. 19, they will SEE HIM, and SEE the nail holes in His hands. And they will mourn.

Edited February 4, 2017 by iamlamad

[Just a Mirror]

3 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

 

Question, where is it written that the temple will be in Israel?

The Original Temple design given to Solomon was given to him by God, correct?

Therefore the Temple design itself could be considered holy, correct?

Now, I am thinking out loud here and have yet to look up the corresponding scripture, but what if the temple design was copied and not necessarily placed in Israel?

I'm sure you know where I'm going with this if you listen to news.

Yes, in Brazil they have built a replica temple, which on the outside looks like Solomon's temple design, inside it has been adjusted to sit a congregation. If the design of the Temple itself is Holy, then it could be considered a Holy place, no?

Being placed in South America is interesting as "America", the name, is "Land of the feathered serpent".

That sounds like an angelic serpentine like creature, possibly Luciferian in nature.

Just a thought for discussion.

[Marcus O'Reillius]

1 minute ago, Just a Mirror said:

Question, where is it written that the temple will be in Israel?

The third Temple in Ezekiel is in the land of Israel, is it not?  With water flowing out from beneath to heal the waters both fresh and salt.

And is not the Temple Mount, where the Ark of the Covenant was brought by David and the Temple of Solomon built, not thought to be where Abraham was to sacrifice Isaac?

Is not the Temple Mount where it is thought that Jacob dreamed of the ladder to Heaven?

[Just a Mirror]

Here is an interesting tidbit that is not mentioned very often, and prophetically speaking is not detailed in the scrolls much, unless it is veiled in symbolism or maybe repetitive prophetic happenings.

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1And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, 3And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

7And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, 8And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. 9And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. 10And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

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Wish we had the details and time frame of that war. Or do we?

[Marcus O'Reillius]

10 minutes ago, Just a Mirror said:

"America", the name, is "Land of the feathered serpent".

From the Online Etymology Dictionary:

America

1507, "the western hemisphere, North and South America," in Cartographer Martin Waldseemüller's treatise "Cosmographiae Introductio," from Modern Latin Americanus, after Amerigo Vespucci (1454-1512) who made two trips to the New World as a navigator and claimed to have discovered it. His published works put forward the idea that it was a new continent, and he was first to call it Novus Mundus "New World." Amerigo is more easily Latinized than Vespucci (Latin Vesputius, which might have yielded place-name Vesputia). The sense in English naturally was restricted toward the British colonies, then the United States.

The man's name Amerigo is Germanic, said to derive from Gothic Amalrich, literally "work-ruler." The Old English form of the name has come down as surnames Emmerich, Emery, etc. The Italian fem. form merged into Amelia.

[iamlamad]

11 hours ago, Just a Mirror said:

It really makes me scratch my head trying to imagine how people get this interpretation of scripture. This pre-beast persecution rapture nonsense.

The bible LITERALLY spells out when the believers are removed, The Same Day God's WRATH (GODS WRATH, NOT THE BEASTS PERSECUTION)

Did anyone in the old testament that lived between Adam and Noah get raptured? Do you remember how bad it got, He destroyed the world?

Did Noah get raptured? No. Saved.

Did Daniel get raptured? No. Protected.

Did Peter get raptured? No. Martyred.

Every Believer since Jesus who has faced persecution DIED, Martyred, or ran away.

We are martyrs for Christ, just as Christ was martyred for us. Its the way it is.

I can hear it now, "But the bible says we are not appointed for GODS WRATH!!!"

Okay, what is YOUR current definition of Gods wrath?

What day is the day of the Lord? Is that not the beginning of Gods wrath?

Or maybe you believe that God sent the Devil to punish us for 6000 years?

Cause that would be the only way that a person could believe that the beast, false prophet and dragon are God's wrath.

Let me explain in math, everyone loves math.

Beast + False Prophet + Dragon + Whore = Lucifer's final war on the Church, Making Martyrs.

Beast + False Prophet + Dragon + 10 Kings = Lucifer destroying Whore and "his" final war with God in this age.

Yeshua + Martyrs + 144,000 + Rapture = God's Wrath on Lucifer. Thats the wrath we are saved from, not the beast persecution.

Okay, forgot one angle people bring up.

"The man of lawlessness cannot be revealed until the one who restrains is taken out of the way."

Drum roll please..........The one who restrains is............Michael!!!!

Yes, "and at that time Michael will stand up and there will be a time of trouble unlike any there has ever been.."

Not hard to put together.

Peace.

Get Real! The rapture (the catching up of a multitude of believers) is a ONE TIME event. It never happened in history and it will not happen in the future, after the Millennial Reign of Christ. There were, however, examples: Enoch and Elijah. then Jesus. Next will be the Bride of Christ. After that will be the 144,000. And finally at the 7th vial, the Old Testament saints.

If you will notice, Lot was REMOVED from the place God's wrath was poured out. Since God's wrath will be worldwide when it comes, God will remove His people from the planet to a place of safety.

By the way, just so we are on the same page, God's wrath will BEGIN right where John tells us, at the 6th seal: "the day of His wrath has come." In this small part we agree: it is also the start of the Day of the Lord. What you miss is, the RAPTURE will be the trigger for the Day of the Lord. Study 1 Thes. 5.

In short, Paul tells us a SUDDENLY is coming: one day  - a day of peace and safety - a day just like today - the dead in Christ will fly up out of the ground into the air. One instant later those alive and in Christ will join them in the air. Together (the gathering) we will join Jesus in the clouds.

But back to the dead in Christ: when they suddenly are resurrected, this event will cause a worldwide earthquake: Paul's "sudden destruction."  Paul tells us, at this "sudden" resurrection and destruction event, two different groups of people get two different results: those living in the light of Jesus Christ (IN Christ) will get salvation: raptured to heaven and "get to live together with Him."  (So shall we ever be with the Lord.)

Those living in darkness cannot escape: the earthquake will be worldwide, because the dead in Christ are worldwide. Paul tells us that this "sudden destruction" earthquake will be the start of the Day of the Lord, and the start of God's wrath.

John is in perfect agreement: the rapture in Revelation will take place a moment before the great earthquake of the 6th seal: Paul's "sudden destruction." Then in chapter 7 John SAW the raptured church around the throne in heaven. He did not get to see the rapture, but he saw the effect of it: the church in heaven - God taking His bride to the homes He has prepared for us.

This is reality: it is what the bible teaches us.

[OneLight]

6 minutes ago, Just a Mirror said:

Here is an interesting tidbit that is not mentioned very often, and prophetically speaking is not detailed in the scrolls much, unless it is veiled in symbolism or maybe repetitive prophetic happenings.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, 3And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

7And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, 8And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. 9And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. 10And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wish we had the details and time frame of that war. Or do we?

This time frame is after the 1000 years, which coincides with the 1000 year reign of Jesus, the millennium.

[Just a Mirror]

2 minutes ago, Marcus O'Reillius said:

The third Temple in Ezekiel is in the land of Israel, is it not?  With water flowing out from beneath to heal the waters both fresh and salt.

And is not the Temple Mount, where the Ark of the Covenant was brought by David and the Temple of Solomon built, not thought to be where Abraham was to sacrifice Isaac?

Is not the Temple Mount where it is thought that Jacob dreamed of the ladder to Heaven?

That temple in Ezekiel is massive, inner court is almost 1/4 of a mile across, it's actually 1/5 of a mile square, and that's just the inner court, I need to look and see how big the Temple mount area is.