markdohle Posted January 27, 2017 Group: Senior Member Followers: 11 Topic Count: 77 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 641 Content Per Day: 0.22 Reputation: 328 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/16/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted January 27, 2017 (edited) To remember the dead Once a month our community has what we call a “Month’s mind mass” in remembrance of our dead, our community members who have passed on, our loved ones, friends and benefactor and those buried in our ‘Green Cemetery” across the way. I believe that it is a beautiful tradition. Some mornings during the meditation between nocturnes, I will go out in back of our church and during that time will remember those buried there. I knew most of them and took care of them as well before they died. To pray for the dead is a bone of contention between different Christian traditions. Some believe that to pray for the dead in some way takes away from the saving grace of Jesus Christ and implies that it was somewhat not enough. I have also been told that what Catholics do when praying for the dead, is somehow demonic, like praying to the saints. I don’t bother with it anymore, for to pray for the dead and to pray to the saints makes total sense to me. I am very comfortable with those who don’t agree, even if they do so vehemently. They are after all fellow lovers of the Lord and mean well. Even if they believe I am going to hell, well, that does not matter either. In the end, like it or not, we are all one in Christ Jesus. We are as St. Paul says beautifully, “There is one body, one Lord” and so death is just a going deeper in and a fuller taking on the ‘Mind of Christ”. I am not sure what that is, but I do believe that it is much more than just the saints being the same as when they died. They are more, for having put on Christ; they are now fully united in him. Since they have the “The Mind of Christ” I believe that they are active in praying for the Church on earth. Even in human relationships, a purifying process has to be experienced, endured and grown through, if it is indeed allowed to grow. In the marriage vows when a man and a woman make their vows, they are promising that by staying together in good times and bad times, they are promising that they will let go of anything that gets in the way of that relationship. The growth that is required takes a great deal of inner change that can be painful but purifying. If that journey is not taken, then the marriage will become stunted and perhaps die. Friendship is the same thing. The growth needed in order to grow in a deep trust of a friend can be painful and frightening, yet, worth the effort, I believe. In our relationship with the Lord, I believe the same process is also present but on a much deeper level. Just like in marriage and friendship, there is an active phase and then a more passive one where the compulsion to be in charge is slowly let go of and over a period of time deep healing occurs as well as relationships that endured and continue to grow. Just as I lose out if I don’t grow in my ability to allow the process of purification to occur in my life with others, the same is tragically true with my relationship with the Lord. The process of sanctification is long and drawn out in this life. If not finished, then this grace-filled process continues. After we let go of the brain in death, what is unconscious in us becomes conscious, we can’t hide anymore from what needs to be healed and purified by the grace of the Lord…..it is not punishment, though like all healing, painful. Just as it is in our experience of deep relationships with others, if rejected then there is only a shallow attachment. John of the Cross calls it the dark night of the soul. The below is from an article from a catholic site, “Our Sunday Visitor”, written by Emily Stimpson Chapman”. The title being “Understanding the Dark Night of the Soul: “The dark night of the soul is not an evil to be endured; it’s a good for which we should be grateful. Of course, it doesn’t always seem that way. The thought of plunging into a spiritual abyss and losing all the sweetness in our relationship with God strikes few as appealing. But neither does surgery. Having cancer removed from our bodies isn’t a fun process. Nevertheless, we submit to the surgeon’s knife readily and quickly, knowing that the sooner we have the surgery, the sooner we can live a healthy, full life. What’s true on the natural level is true on the supernatural level. If we want to become the people God made us to be and live the lives he made us to live, we must let him excise sin and unhealthy attachments from our souls. There’s no getting around it. Before we can enter heaven, it has to happen. It can happen in this life or it can happen in the next — in purgatory. But here is better. For the sooner we let God root out unhealthy attachments, the sooner we can get on with the business of being saints. And there’s no better business than that.” In the beginning of the Dark Night of the Soul, St. John says that the dark night is the same as the experience of purgatory…..a grace-filled experience that is needed in order for the soul to respond wholeheartedly to God’s love and grace….which is also a grace. Edited January 27, 2017 by markdohle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markdohle Posted January 27, 2017 Group: Senior Member Followers: 11 Topic Count: 77 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 641 Content Per Day: 0.22 Reputation: 328 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/16/2016 Status: Offline Author Share Posted January 27, 2017 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Yowm said: I've never heard of contention between 'Christian' traditions on that topic, maybe between Christian and non Christian. As a Catholic, I have heard it often my friend.....used to it actually. Of course you may think I am a Non-Christian. Many think the the Catholic is not Christian at all.... Peace mark Edited January 27, 2017 by markdohle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Teditis Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 7 minutes ago, markdohle said: As a Catholic, I have heard it often my friend.....used to it actually. Of course you may think I am a Non-Christian. Many think the the Catholic is not Christian at all.... Peace mark I've heard it often too, my friend. And yes... it is often applied towards the people of Catholic Faith. (A shame, really). I've always felt that the praying for the dead is a true example of Love. We don't know the way of the dead, but to spend time in articulating our feelings to God about all matters pertaining to the subject has to mean something to an all-loving Father. His ears are not closed to us... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Teditis Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 (edited) 16 minutes ago, markdohle said: As a Catholic, I have heard it often my friend.....used to it actually. Of course you may think I am a Non-Christian. Many think the the Catholic is not Christian at all.... Peace mark Dbl post... Edited January 27, 2017 by Teditis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Teditis Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 (edited) 15 minutes ago, markdohle said: As a Catholic, I have heard it often my friend.....used to it actually. Of course you may think I am a Non-Christian. Many think the the Catholic is not Christian at all.... Peace mark Dbl post... Edited January 27, 2017 by Teditis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markdohle Posted January 27, 2017 Group: Senior Member Followers: 11 Topic Count: 77 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 641 Content Per Day: 0.22 Reputation: 328 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/16/2016 Status: Offline Author Share Posted January 27, 2017 1 hour ago, Yowm said: Mark, You might be but I wouldn't consider the RCC system as such. Yes, I understand ;-). Peace Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ezra Posted January 27, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 134 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 8,142 Content Per Day: 2.34 Reputation: 6,612 Days Won: 20 Joined: 11/02/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted January 27, 2017 3 hours ago, Teditis said: I've always felt that the praying for the dead is a true example of Love. What exactly can praying for the dead accomplish? Those who are with Christ need no prayers, and those who are in Hades do not have a second chance. Also, Purgatory is a fictitious place. The ones who need prayers are the living. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Teditis Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 3 minutes ago, Ezra said: What exactly can praying for the dead accomplish? Those who are with Christ need no prayers, and those who are in Hades do not have a second chance. Also, Purgatory is a fictitious place. The ones who need prayers are the living. Praying for the dead can, possibly, do more for the pray-er than it can do for the prayed. As MarkDohle points out, the life of a "saint" goes further than mere life and death here on earth and it is a relationship with our friends and loved ones that continues beyond the grave. Love for such a one would lead one to want nothing but the best for anyone... including those who have passed on before us. Nothing can prepare us for what lies beyond death and a simple prayer for the dead does nothing to harm either us or those prayed for. But it can expand one's own devotion to the Love of Christ as we take time in prayer to remember those who have passed on... to pray for the part that we don't know about and ask God to give them the best judgement because the deceased may have impacted our lives to His Glory. So where is the harm, in your mind, for praying for the deceased? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill16652 Posted January 27, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 288 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 312 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/25/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted January 27, 2017 I think it is good to honor the dead and remember them but I fail to see any merit in praying for them, they will be one place or the other and nothing will change that after they pass. I wonder if this practice dates back to when to you paid to pray someone out of purgatory which I also do not believe in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ezra Posted January 27, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 134 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 8,142 Content Per Day: 2.34 Reputation: 6,612 Days Won: 20 Joined: 11/02/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted January 27, 2017 1 minute ago, Teditis said: So where is the harm, in your mind, for praying for the deceased? Well here's the thing. Those who are with Christ are already in Heaven in a state of perfection. So what would praying for them accomplish? There is not a single Scripture which would suggest that we are to pray for those in Heaven. The whole idea of praying for the dead is related to notion of Purgatory, and once we understand that Purgatory is fictitious, there is no further point in praying for the dead. There is not a single Scripture which supports the concept of Purgatory. Either the finished work of Christ for our redemption is perfect and complete, or it is not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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