1Thes.4 = Day of the Lord

[OneLight]

I am not speaking of the bride and Jesus, but the New Jerusalem.  You were claiming the New Jerusalem was to be on earth during the Millennium and I was claiming that it will not be until after the Great White Throne Judgment, the new heaven and new earth, before the New Jerusalem even comes down to earth.  Let's stick to just this.

[Diaste]

48 minutes ago, OneLight said:

I am not speaking of the bride and Jesus, but the New Jerusalem.  You were claiming the New Jerusalem was to be on earth during the Millennium and I was claiming that it will not be until after the Great White Throne Judgment, the new heaven and new earth, before the New Jerusalem even comes down to earth.  Let's stick to just this.

I'll limit the reply to to Christ, New Jerusalem and the elect saints as I'm convinced all three are linked in time and space. If that's not acceptable then I decline.

[Diaste]

8 hours ago, OneLight said:

  You were claiming the New Jerusalem was to be on earth during the Millennium and I was claiming that it will not be until after the Great White Throne Judgment, the new heaven and new earth, before the New Jerusalem even comes down to earth.  

There is this.

John 14:2-3

My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you?

And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am.

Then:

Rev 21

² I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. ³ And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. 

²² I did not see a temple in the city, because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple. ²³ The city does not need the sun or the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, and the Lamb is its lamp.

So this is where God and the Lamb are, in the city New Jerusalem. It's coming to earth so God can with his people. This is the house of God from John 14, the place where Jesus prepared a place for us. And it's huge. 1400 miles wide long and high. Almost incomprehensible.

If the Great White Throne Judgement has already occurred then this is the condition extant, there is still great waters on the earth.

Rev 20  ^13" The sea gave up the dead that were in it,"

But,

Rev 21:1 "....and there was no longer any sea..." So the judgement has already occurred before New Jerusalem comes down from heaven. 

This is not a problem for NJ to be on earth after the judgement because when Gog and Magog surround the city they are all devoured by fire so no need for judgement. Now with Gog and Magog destroyed and Satan thrown into the lake of fire; Rev 20:7-10 no rebellion should or can ever occur again. It was Satan that started the rebellion through his lies in the beginning, and sans that influence no rebellion would have occurred. 

But there is another thing to reconcile. After the final battle at the Day of Lord in the valley of Jehoshaphat, there are people left alive on the earth, that's who repopulates the whole earth. These are not believers. Well, I suppose they are now, but they still have hard hearts.

Zechariah 14

^{16 "}Then the survivors from all the nations that have attacked Jerusalem will go up year after year to worship the King, the Lord Almighty, and to celebrate the Festival of Tabernacles. ¹⁷ If any of the peoples of the earth do not go up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord Almighty, they will have no rain"

The above is after the day of the Lord and we see the people of the earth must go up to worship the King in Jerusalem. Well the old brick and mortar Jerusalem no longer exists, no cities do after the day of the Lord,

Rev 16

 ¹⁹ "The great city ( Old Jerusalem?) split into three parts, and the cities of the nations collapsed."

There are no man made cities anymore after the day of the Lord.

And there is this.

Rev 21

"To the thirsty I will give water without cost from the spring of the water of life. ⁷ Those who are victorious will inherit all this, and I will be their God and they will be my children. ⁸ But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”

At this point the Great White Throne Judgement has already happened, no sea when NJ comes down, but there is a sea at the GWTJ. So how is it that God still speaks of the victorious and the evil? Because after NJ comes down people will repopulate the earth for 1000 years and there will still be overcomers and the rebellious.

 

 

 

 

[Diaste]

On 5/29/2017 at 6:23 PM, OneLight said:

  Nothing is said about unrighteousness not being inside the city gates itself.  All scripture tells us is:

They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them.

Rev 21 

²⁷ Nothing impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life.

[OneLight]

1 hour ago, Diaste said:

Rev 21 

²⁷ Nothing impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life.

You do realize that you are trying to put Revelation 21 before Revelation 19?  It just cannot be that way, unless your bible looks like a pretzel, twisted in circles, crossing over itself everywhere.

Print out chapters 19:11 through 22:5.  Cut out the events in them, and place them side by side, from left to right, as it unfolds in the bible.  That is how Revelation will pan out.  You just created a timeline of events that reflects how God told John to write, as this is how it will happen.

[OneLight]

16 hours ago, inchrist said:

 

Your time table is off.

[OneLight]

9 hours ago, inchrist said:

No i dont think so....care to show with the scriptures ive provided 

I will use how John lays it out.  I will place then in sequence as it is laid out for us, starting with the return of Christ. 

1. Revelation 19:11-16 - Christ on a White Horse

   1. Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war.  His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had a name written that no one knew except Himself.  He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God.  And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses.  Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.  And He has on His robe and on His thigh a name written:

      KING OF KINGS AND
      LORD OF LORDS.

2. Revelation 19:17-21 - The Beast and His Armies Defeated

   1. Then I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the birds that fly in the midst of heaven, “Come and gather together for the supper of the great God, that you may eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of captains, the flesh of mighty men, the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, both small and great.”

      And I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army.  Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone.  And the rest were killed with the sword which proceeded from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse. And all the birds were filled with their flesh.

3. Revelation 20:1-3 - The Beast and His Armies Defeated

   1. Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.  He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while.

4. Revelation 20:4-6 - The Saints Reign with Christ 1,000 Years

   1. And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.  But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.  Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

5. Revelation 20:7-10 - Satanic Rebellion Crushed

   1. Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea.  They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them.  The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

6. Revelation 20:11-15 - The Great White Throne Judgment

   1. Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them.  And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books.  The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works.  Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.  And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

7. Revelation 21:1-8- All Things Made New

   1. Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea.  Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.  And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God.  And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away.”

      Then He who sat on the throne said, “Behold, I make all things new.” And He said to me, “Write, for these words are true and faithful.”

      And He said to me, “It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End.  I will give of the fountain of the water of life freely to him who thirsts.  He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son.  But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”

 

You see, God lays it out in a specific manner, one that unfolds in sequence, not to be taken out of context.  When people start taking Revelation 21:2 and places it somewhere in Revelation 19, they are, in fact, creating a new prophecy.   With this in mind, we need to heed to what Jesus Himself said in Revelation 22:18-19

 For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

 

[OneLight]

22 minutes ago, inchrist said:

Lets start here first ... snip

I am not going to get into all this with you, as we have discussed this before.  I take scripture as it was written.  I have faith in what it says without having to chase down any like verses in scripture for a "greater understanding", as some see it.  I take Revelation as it is.

[OneLight]

9 minutes ago, inchrist said:

I dont have doubt that you have faith in your opinion but to refuse to look into the scriptures for greater understanding, is clearly where the problem lies.

Why would God have Christ purge creation from sin, then once its purged, cleanesed .......gives it back to the father cleansed to only spit it away and  then declare Im going to create something new now.

Perhaps you should understand what John means by New because it goes with purging....loosend from sin.

Not true.  What I am not willing to do is argue about what I find against what someone has found.  Instead, I place my faith in how scripture reveals itself without having to find other proof to back up what it says.  To claim I refuse to look into scripture is rather insulting since I have studied scripture for many decades.  I don't just read the bible.   I just don't agree in the pretzel theology I see these days as people try to make one verse belong to another.

[enoob57]

The timeline The Bible gives:
if any of this is rearranged it is done so in violation of the hermeneutic of Scripture...